Home | Webstore
Latest News: OOTP 25 Available - FHM 10 Available - OOTP Go! Available

Out of the Park Baseball 25 Buy Now!

  

Go Back   OOTP Developments Forums > Prior Versions of Our Games > Out of the Park Baseball 17 > OOTP 17 - General Discussions

OOTP 17 - General Discussions Everything about the latest Out of the Park Baseball - officially licensed by MLB.com and the MLBPA.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-08-2016, 10:48 PM   #1
aborelli24
Bat Boy
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 16
Low Leadership

I was wondering if players with low leadership "ruin" your teams chemistry or if they just have no effect at all. I know players with High leadership help team chemistry but i dont know if low leadership players do the opposite and lower team chemistry.
Anyone know?

Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
aborelli24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2016, 11:07 PM   #2
RchW
Hall Of Famer
 
RchW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: The big smoke
Posts: 15,628
Quote:
Originally Posted by aborelli24 View Post
I was wondering if players with low leadership "ruin" your teams chemistry or if they just have no effect at all. I know players with High leadership help team chemistry but i dont know if low leadership players do the opposite and lower team chemistry.
Anyone know?

Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
In many cases they are essential. Too many leaders can be disruptive. If a player is talented he is useful with very few exceptions.
__________________
Cheers

RichW

#stopthestupid

“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit
RchW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2016, 11:27 PM   #3
wsenkow
Minors (Double A)
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by aborelli24 View Post
I was wondering if players with low leadership "ruin" your teams chemistry or if they just have no effect at all. I know players with High leadership help team chemistry but i dont know if low leadership players do the opposite and lower team chemistry.
Anyone know?

Thanks
I have noticed several things, and sometimes they overlap and you can't weed out who is causing the morale issue if the list of players starts to get long. A winning record, or streak helps. Low leadership COMBINED with a low work ethic is a crusher. You need several players around age of 33 with high leadership. And never, NEVER trade in mid-season for players from a contender to your club if it isn't a contender as well. Those new players are going to be a cancer to your roster. If you have a 'leader' and he is in the bottom of the morale list when you click on 'players' etc, it is often an indication that another veteran leader is needed, or too many players have a low work ethic. Sometimes it is written in the 'show status' of his profile what is bothering him.

I find that a low work ethic is far more detrimental than low leadership. Your roster should be okay with half of them having low leadership if they have a good work ethic. If you have four or five players with a low work ethic your roster could be in trouble even if they have normal leadership.

Last edited by wsenkow; 08-09-2016 at 12:26 AM.
wsenkow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2016, 10:55 AM   #4
wsenkow
Minors (Double A)
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by RchW View Post
Too many leaders can be disruptive.
I always take over a team needing a 'rebuild' and end up with too few leaders, in particular veterans. So yes, that's a great point you have!
wsenkow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2016, 11:12 AM   #5
jpeters1734
Hall Of Famer
 
jpeters1734's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Juust a bit outside...
Posts: 5,607
low leadership isn't necessarily bad. A guy that keeps to himself isn't a bad clubhouse guy. but a guy with low leadership and high controversy will cause issues. try looking at the personality blurb when looking at low leadership guys.
__________________
"Cannonball Coming!" Go Bucs!!

Founder and League Caretaker of the Professional Baseball Circuit, www.probaseballcircuit.com

An Un-Official Guide to Minor League Management in OOTP 21

Ratings Scale Conversion Cross-Reference Cheat Sheet
jpeters1734 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2016, 11:23 AM   #6
wsenkow
Minors (Double A)
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpeters1734 View Post
low leadership isn't necessarily bad. A guy that keeps to himself isn't a bad clubhouse guy. but a guy with low leadership and high controversy will cause issues. try looking at the personality blurb when looking at low leadership guys.
Good advice as well by jpeters1734 to follow, I had no idea that what he refers to had such an impact on morale.

Last edited by wsenkow; 08-09-2016 at 11:52 AM.
wsenkow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2016, 11:31 AM   #7
RchW
Hall Of Famer
 
RchW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: The big smoke
Posts: 15,628
This is the leadership that I like.
Attached Images
Image 
__________________
Cheers

RichW

#stopthestupid

“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit
RchW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2016, 11:32 AM   #8
jpeters1734
Hall Of Famer
 
jpeters1734's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Juust a bit outside...
Posts: 5,607
Quote:
Originally Posted by wsenkow View Post
Yes, and I should have mentioned a low desire to win can take away some/all of the benefit that a high work ethic may have in performance but not necessarily in morale.
I think you might be mis-interpreting what desire to win means. From the manual:

"How important it is for a player to be on a winning team. Players who need winning teams factor this into their decisions about where to sign contracts or extensions. Player morale can suffer greatly if this rating is high and the team is performing poorly."

It doesn't appear to affect performance, but rather morale.
__________________
"Cannonball Coming!" Go Bucs!!

Founder and League Caretaker of the Professional Baseball Circuit, www.probaseballcircuit.com

An Un-Official Guide to Minor League Management in OOTP 21

Ratings Scale Conversion Cross-Reference Cheat Sheet
jpeters1734 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2016, 11:34 AM   #9
jpeters1734
Hall Of Famer
 
jpeters1734's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Juust a bit outside...
Posts: 5,607
actually, here's the whole list. I think people also undervalue the importance of intelligence.
Attached Images
Image 
__________________
"Cannonball Coming!" Go Bucs!!

Founder and League Caretaker of the Professional Baseball Circuit, www.probaseballcircuit.com

An Un-Official Guide to Minor League Management in OOTP 21

Ratings Scale Conversion Cross-Reference Cheat Sheet
jpeters1734 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2016, 11:49 AM   #10
wsenkow
Minors (Double A)
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpeters1734 View Post
I think you might be mis-interpreting what desire to win means. From the manual:

"How important it is for a player to be on a winning team. Players who need winning teams factor this into their decisions about where to sign contracts or extensions. Player morale can suffer greatly if this rating is high and the team is performing poorly."

It doesn't appear to affect performance, but rather morale.
Oh my, did I ever get it wrong! Thanks a million. I will edit my original post because it certainly is counter-productive....And I always thought it referred to his own personal desire for winning, as in the will to win.

Last edited by wsenkow; 08-09-2016 at 11:59 AM.
wsenkow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2016, 12:18 PM   #11
BIG17EASY
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,291
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpeters1734 View Post
I think you might be mis-interpreting what desire to win means. From the manual:

"How important it is for a player to be on a winning team. Players who need winning teams factor this into their decisions about where to sign contracts or extensions. Player morale can suffer greatly if this rating is high and the team is performing poorly."

It doesn't appear to affect performance, but rather morale.
But morale can affect player performance, so the desire to win can indirectly affect performance.
BIG17EASY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2016, 08:56 PM   #12
OBSL Commish
All Star Reserve
 
OBSL Commish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 946
Quote:
Originally Posted by RchW View Post
This is the leadership that I like.
WOW! Nearly a third of that guy's hits are homers! NICE! Is he an edited player?
OBSL Commish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2016, 08:11 AM   #13
jpeters1734
Hall Of Famer
 
jpeters1734's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Juust a bit outside...
Posts: 5,607
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG17EASY View Post
But morale can affect player performance, so the desire to win can indirectly affect performance.
That is something to consider. Generally I prefer players with low desire since they won't get too bummed over losing
__________________
"Cannonball Coming!" Go Bucs!!

Founder and League Caretaker of the Professional Baseball Circuit, www.probaseballcircuit.com

An Un-Official Guide to Minor League Management in OOTP 21

Ratings Scale Conversion Cross-Reference Cheat Sheet
jpeters1734 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2016, 06:11 PM   #14
wsenkow
Minors (Double A)
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpeters1734 View Post
That is something to consider. Generally I prefer players with low desire since they won't get too bummed over losing
Again thx for correcting me about my interpretation of 'low desire'. For four years Ootp 14-17, I've been doing it wrong! No wonder by the time the All Star break rolls around half of my roster needs a spanking!
wsenkow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2016, 07:07 PM   #15
RchW
Hall Of Famer
 
RchW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: The big smoke
Posts: 15,628
Quote:
Originally Posted by OBSL Commish View Post
WOW! Nearly a third of that guy's hits are homers! NICE! Is he an edited player?
No. I only edit positions that players shouldn't play
__________________
Cheers

RichW

#stopthestupid

“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit
RchW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2016, 03:05 PM   #16
PSUColonel
Hall Of Famer
 
PSUColonel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 12,978
Blog Entries: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpeters1734 View Post
I think you might be mis-interpreting what desire to win means. From the manual:

"How important it is for a player to be on a winning team. Players who need winning teams factor this into their decisions about where to sign contracts or extensions. Player morale can suffer greatly if this rating is high and the team is performing poorly."

It doesn't appear to affect performance, but rather morale.


Except in turn, morale can effect performance.
PSUColonel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2016, 03:24 PM   #17
injury log
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 9,162
There are some potential misunderstandings in this thread:

- very low Leadership is bad. Those are your jerks. If a guy is just a decent quiet guy, his Leadership will be Normal;

- high Leadership is always good. You can't have 'too many leaders'. Trading for Derek Jeter will always help your clubhouse, never hurt it, the game would be nonsensical otherwise;

- Morale has only a very small effect on performance.
injury log is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2016, 03:09 AM   #18
RchW
Hall Of Famer
 
RchW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: The big smoke
Posts: 15,628
Quote:
Originally Posted by injury log View Post
There are some potential misunderstandings in this thread:

- very low Leadership is bad. Those are your jerks. If a guy is just a decent quiet guy, his Leadership will be Normal;

- high Leadership is always good. You can't have 'too many leaders'. Trading for Derek Jeter will always help your clubhouse, never hurt it, the game would be nonsensical otherwise;

- Morale has only a very small effect on performance.
Look at post 7. That "very low" leader was a significant reason I made the playoff the last two season. He was never a problem in the clubhouse and was MVP in 2099 even when traded.

There certainly can be too many leaders. Many studies show that too many leaders can actually be detrimental to organizations. Anybody who has worked in departments where too many leaders exist, knows that it can be messy, confusing and full of conflict. If OOTP doesn't reflect such things then the module is wrong not misunderstood.

I know one link does not equal proof but the list is long.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...poil-the-group
__________________
Cheers

RichW

#stopthestupid

“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit
RchW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2016, 03:21 AM   #19
Charley575
All Star Reserve
 
Charley575's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ocala, FL
Posts: 541
Guys with low leadership alone are not a problem. You need a few guys who are leaders but they don't all have to be. High greed and low work ethic are the ones to,watch out for. Those guys will tank your team chemistry. Also, be wary of guys whose personality descriptions say something like "He speaks his mind." or "teammates find him arrogant and condescending". These guys score high for outspokenness and/or controversy, which are hidden ratings. These guys are bad for moral, also, because they cause disruption. If you have a player with low moral because "he feels outspoken players are dragging the team down" that means you have some loudmouths pointing fingers and assigning blame in your clubhouse. Only take these guys on if you have some strong leaders.
Charley575 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2016, 11:39 AM   #20
injury log
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 9,162
Quote:
Originally Posted by RchW View Post
Look at post 7. That "very low" leader was a significant reason I made the playoff the last two season. He was never a problem in the clubhouse and was MVP in 2099 even when traded.
I was just reporting how the game works. Player Morale is what primarily drives player complaints in OOTP, so if you have a winning team, you normally won't hear much from your players, because winning players are happy. If your team was losing, then your clubhouse personalities would matter more (this is something that needs some finetuning, I think, because it seems to me even a decent-personality clubhouse will generate complaints when a team sucks, which is not how it should work). But very low Leadership guys are supposed to be the jerks.



Quote:
Originally Posted by RchW View Post
There certainly can be too many leaders. Many studies show that too many leaders can actually be detrimental to organizations. Anybody who has worked in departments where too many leaders exist, knows that it can be messy, confusing and full of conflict. If OOTP doesn't reflect such things then the module is wrong not misunderstood.
Just as the Greed rating does not literally mean 'greed' (instead it means 'how much money the player will demand in a contract negotiation'), the Leadership rating does not literally mean 'leadership', at least not in the sense that you might use that word in a corporate management context. It means something more like 'clubhouse influence', and good Leadership means a good influence, bad Leadership a bad influence.

The model is not wrong; it's designed so that the personality model is playable and non-arbitrary. It would be nonsensical to most users if they go to sign Derek Jeter as an FA, his Personality blurb reads "everyone in the game loves Jeter", so you ink him to a deal, and six months later he's causing clubhouse problems. And if there were some ideal number of Leaders you're supposed to have (a number that would be completely arbitrary), then users wanting a good clubhouse would have to spend an inordinate amount of time scanning their players' Personality ratings - so far too much time on something that really shouldn't be very important.

The model is supposed to be easy to use. Good personality players are good for your team, bad personality players are bad for your team. I wouldn't want to use a personality system more complicated than that.
injury log is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:43 AM.

 

Major League and Minor League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with permission of Major League Baseball. Visit MLB.com and MiLB.com.

Officially Licensed Product – MLB Players, Inc.

Out of the Park Baseball is a registered trademark of Out of the Park Developments GmbH & Co. KG

Google Play is a trademark of Google Inc.

Apple, iPhone, iPod touch and iPad are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries.

COPYRIGHT © 2023 OUT OF THE PARK DEVELOPMENTS. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

 

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright © 2020 Out of the Park Developments