Problem Stealing Bases! Help!!! - Page 3

chriskelly · 09-13-2007, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Wahoo

I have seen this fix posted in the past but unfortunately can't find the folder "Application Data". I have played seasons in different eras and am in a league now that I really enjoy but it is in the year 1902 and it seems the stolen base % is even more off than what some of you guys are reporting. In 1901 the 1st year of the league my stolen base leader had 74 stolen bases and 76 caught stealings.

I found the file...but...how do you open the engine file?

Elendil · 09-13-2007, 01:40 PM

C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\Application Data\Sports Interactive\OOTP Baseball 2007\data\config

Make sure system files aren't hidden in Windows Explorer.

JC1973 · 09-13-2007, 02:09 PM

bruckm:

I just found this thread and gained a small amount of solace in the fact that I am not the only one who found it nearly impossible to steal in played out games. In simmed games there isn't a problem, but when I play games, my fastest dudes are getting gunned down by dead-armed catchers like they're running through mud. I've played enough games that this isn't just a statistical fluke. I definitely have a large enough sample size (about five 162-game seasons). My top base-stealer from my current season has 5 speed/5 steal (out of 5) and through 100 games he has only stolen 28 bases on 58 attempts. I don't hit and run or force steal. Ridiculous. I don't even attempt steals against catchers with average arms or better anymore.

I'm still not thrilled about it, but at least now I know it's not just me. Otherwise this game is by far the best thing running.

bruckm · 09-14-2007, 12:44 AM

Just to be clear on my ratings system....the 5 arm catcher I'm talking about is a 5 out of 20 rating. My stealers are 15 or greater out of 20. Right now in the series I'm playing an 8 arm (out of 20) is doing mostly the same thing. He's a got a few more caught stealing against the computer teams but in play-by-play mode against me he is Johnny Bench/Ivan Rodriguez.

Elendil · 09-14-2007, 09:31 AM

Make sure you don't steal on the first pitch very often - or maybe even ever. I really think this is built into the game: the more I play games out, the more I'm convinced that the element of surprise matters for stolen base success.

bruckm · 09-15-2007, 10:44 PM

I rarely get a 'jump' on the 1st pitch. It's almost always 2-3 pitches into an at bat before my runners actually go.

bruckm · 09-15-2007, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elendil

Make sure you don't steal on the first pitch very often - or maybe even ever. I really think this is built into the game: the more I play games out, the more I'm convinced that the element of surprise matters for stolen base success.

Yeah, thanks for the tip. I try taking the 1st pitch then run and hit on 2nd pitch. Yount (15/20) gets nailed by the (5/20) catcher who still has not thrown out a computer runner. Sweet.

voxpoptart · 09-16-2007, 10:25 AM

In terms of supposed anti-human-player bias, I don't see that problem in my game. At all. I play two teams a season (one per sub-league) and am midway through the league's fourth season. I sim games through five innings, then play the last four. All eight of my teams have been above average in stolen base percentage; three have led the league in SB%. That's without forbidding my poor base stealers from ever going; my teams have their share of 1-SB-3-CS guys.

I also don't buy the idea that some aspects of stealing are absurdly easy. I've had guys caught on pitchouts, and I've often had guys caught attempting double steals.

Now, as for high SB players with high %, it's pretty easy to attain. My Modifiers for talent creation set speed at 1.080, and I have stealing frequency for the league set to Normal (the default is Low). In three complete seasons, the level of 50 steals with an 80% success rate has been attained twelve times.

Also, an A.I. team, the Riga Technics, has blown past the 300 steal mark every season. They're the 4th-winning team out of 24 (and the 2nd-winningest A.I. team). Steal that many bases - with, not surprisingly, an excellent bunch of fielders - and you really do start to generate a lot of runs.

chriskelly · 09-16-2007, 09:09 PM

2Q's. I see the pts on not stealing on the 1st pitch. what if you don't play pitch by pitch? And..how do you open the .ini file to adjust as recommended above?

chriskelly · 09-20-2007, 12:10 PM

bump. anybody know how to open the ini file?

Elendil · 09-20-2007, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chriskelly

bump. anybody know how to open the ini file?

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...6&postcount=34

statfreak · 09-20-2007, 01:21 PM

use 'notepad' or another text program to open the engine file. After making your changes, choose 'save' (NOT save as...) then close the file.

Hope that helps.

Elendil · 09-20-2007, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by statfreak

use 'notepad' or another text program to open the engine file. After making your changes, choose 'save' (NOT save as...) then close the file.

Hope that helps.

Ohhhh, that's probably what he meant...

RonCo · 09-28-2007, 08:49 PM

I seriously doubt there's any anti-human bias, but I suppose it's possible. Here's a small bit of data from a test league. Note that the trends are very strong, but the scatter is wide. Sample size is a big deal. In the course of a half-season or so it's almost impossible to "guarantee" arm differentiation by stats. But even over a whole season, with only 100-150 data points, there's high likelihood that random chance will allow lesser-talented players to out-perform those of better raw talent....or visa versa.

RonCo · 09-29-2007, 09:47 AM

Then, just to compare OOTP to real life--though these are often dangerous--I plotted raw MLB 2007 performance data against OOTP performance data. Ultimately what I saw was that in this one OOTP league:

1) The relative performance of OOTP catchers in throwing out runners was pretty good (the trendlines were pretty close to parallel).
2) Very few OOTP catchers throw out less than 20% of base runners, while quite a few MLB cathers operate down in that area.
3) OOTP runners are attempting to steal about 30-40% more often than their modern-day MLB counterparts.

Overall, the model is reasonably good, but could be improved...but in the end I can find simmed examples of "poor" catchers doing very well, and visa versa. It's not just an anti-human phenomena.

bruckm · 10-03-2007, 11:57 PM

ok, I adjusted base stealing success to 120.

Absolutely, totally, unequivocally, positively random in play-by-play mode.

I'm sorry but the graphs are a sham as is base-stealing in this game. There is sooooooooooooooooo much to love about this game, but base-stealing is not part of it. It's a joke. (Do you hear that? It's the other sims laughing at OOTP 2007 for it's base-stealing engine.)

RonCo · 10-04-2007, 07:25 AM

If you're happy, I'm happy.

Childress · 10-04-2007, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonCo

In the big picture, Markus's code for the running game seems to model real life at the results level pretty well...but it's off just a little in the details.

I may be wrong on this, but there seems to be an important element missing in the OOTP stealing algorithms: the significant injury risk to the runner (not to mention the infielder). This is a serious RL inhibitory factor.

IIRC, Mickey Mantle was clocked at 3.1 seconds from home plate to 1st: a surreal stat at the time. He probably would have led the AL in steals several years running if not for his managers' concerns. They evidently judged the cost/benefit ratio unprofitable. But his career record was 153SB, 38CS, ~80%, over 90% in his prime.

RonCo · 10-04-2007, 02:29 PM

I'll need to pull my injury test data out, but I'm fairly sure that runners can and do get injured while stealing. Perhaps it could be made a larger risk. Don't know if it's necessary or not. But I'm fairly sure running your guy every time you can does expose him to a greater injury risk.

At the end of the day, my guess is that if catchers with poor arms were less likely to throw out runners, you would see the overall numbers get better than they are now. There would still be oddities and issues, but the numbers would probably get better. Only Markus knows for sure, though, because only he has the code.

Childress · 10-04-2007, 04:20 PM

There are set injury parameters for running and collisions, but not, specifically, for sliding. Which may or may not be meaningful.

In the bigs in 2006, for example, SBs were successful ~73% of the time. In the simmed seasons I've managed in OOTP, it' runs 67-68%. Close, but the difference may be due to the slight over-effectiveness of catchers with weak arms at throwing out runners.

09-13-2007, 01:40 PM	#42
Elendil Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the dynasty forum Posts: 2,318	C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\Application Data\Sports Interactive\OOTP Baseball 2007\data\config Make sure system files aren't hidden in Windows Explorer. __________________ Heaven is kicking back with a double Talisker and a churchwarden stuffed with latakia.

09-14-2007, 12:44 AM	#44
bruckm Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 81	Just to be clear on my ratings system....the 5 arm catcher I'm talking about is a 5 out of 20 rating. My stealers are 15 or greater out of 20. Right now in the series I'm playing an 8 arm (out of 20) is doing mostly the same thing. He's a got a few more caught stealing against the computer teams but in play-by-play mode against me he is Johnny Bench/Ivan Rodriguez. Last edited by bruckm; 08-12-2015 at 12:36 PM.

09-14-2007, 09:31 AM	#45
Elendil Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the dynasty forum Posts: 2,318	Make sure you don't steal on the first pitch very often - or maybe even ever. I really think this is built into the game: the more I play games out, the more I'm convinced that the element of surprise matters for stolen base success. __________________ Heaven is kicking back with a double Talisker and a churchwarden stuffed with latakia.

09-15-2007, 10:44 PM	#46
bruckm Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 81	I rarely get a 'jump' on the 1st pitch. It's almost always 2-3 pitches into an at bat before my runners actually go. Last edited by bruckm; 08-12-2015 at 12:37 PM.

09-20-2007, 01:21 PM	#52
statfreak Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 2,435	use 'notepad' or another text program to open the engine file. After making your changes, choose 'save' (NOT save as...) then close the file. Hope that helps. __________________ Roll out the barrel!

09-13-2007, 02:09 PM	#43
JC1973 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Palatine, IL Posts: 24	bruckm: I just found this thread and gained a small amount of solace in the fact that I am not the only one who found it nearly impossible to steal in played out games. In simmed games there isn't a problem, but when I play games, my fastest dudes are getting gunned down by dead-armed catchers like they're running through mud. I've played enough games that this isn't just a statistical fluke. I definitely have a large enough sample size (about five 162-game seasons). My top base-stealer from my current season has 5 speed/5 steal (out of 5) and through 100 games he has only stolen 28 bases on 58 attempts. I don't hit and run or force steal. Ridiculous. I don't even attempt steals against catchers with average arms or better anymore. I'm still not thrilled about it, but at least now I know it's not just me. Otherwise this game is by far the best thing running.

09-16-2007, 10:25 AM	#48
voxpoptart Major Leagues Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 387	In terms of supposed anti-human-player bias, I don't see that problem in my game. At all. I play two teams a season (one per sub-league) and am midway through the league's fourth season. I sim games through five innings, then play the last four. All eight of my teams have been above average in stolen base percentage; three have led the league in SB%. That's without forbidding my poor base stealers from ever going; my teams have their share of 1-SB-3-CS guys. I also don't buy the idea that some aspects of stealing are absurdly easy. I've had guys caught on pitchouts, and I've often had guys caught attempting double steals. Now, as for high SB players with high %, it's pretty easy to attain. My Modifiers for talent creation set speed at 1.080, and I have stealing frequency for the league set to Normal (the default is Low). In three complete seasons, the level of 50 steals with an 80% success rate has been attained twelve times. Also, an A.I. team, the Riga Technics, has blown past the 300 steal mark every season. They're the 4th-winning team out of 24 (and the 2nd-winningest A.I. team). Steal that many bases - with, not surprisingly, an excellent bunch of fielders - and you really do start to generate a lot of runs.

09-16-2007, 09:09 PM	#49
chriskelly All Star Reserve Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 738	2Q's. I see the pts on not stealing on the 1st pitch. what if you don't play pitch by pitch? And..how do you open the .ini file to adjust as recommended above?

09-20-2007, 12:10 PM	#50
chriskelly All Star Reserve Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 738	bump. anybody know how to open the ini file?

09-28-2007, 08:49 PM	#54
RonCo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 9,499	I seriously doubt there's any anti-human bias, but I suppose it's possible. Here's a small bit of data from a test league. Note that the trends are very strong, but the scatter is wide. Sample size is a big deal. In the course of a half-season or so it's almost impossible to "guarantee" arm differentiation by stats. But even over a whole season, with only 100-150 data points, there's high likelihood that random chance will allow lesser-talented players to out-perform those of better raw talent....or visa versa. Attached Images

09-29-2007, 09:47 AM	#55
RonCo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 9,499	Then, just to compare OOTP to real life--though these are often dangerous--I plotted raw MLB 2007 performance data against OOTP performance data. Ultimately what I saw was that in this one OOTP league: 1) The relative performance of OOTP catchers in throwing out runners was pretty good (the trendlines were pretty close to parallel). 2) Very few OOTP catchers throw out less than 20% of base runners, while quite a few MLB cathers operate down in that area. 3) OOTP runners are attempting to steal about 30-40% more often than their modern-day MLB counterparts. Overall, the model is reasonably good, but could be improved...but in the end I can find simmed examples of "poor" catchers doing very well, and visa versa. It's not just an anti-human phenomena. Attached Images

10-03-2007, 11:57 PM	#56
bruckm Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 81	ok, I adjusted base stealing success to 120. Absolutely, totally, unequivocally, positively random in play-by-play mode. I'm sorry but the graphs are a sham as is base-stealing in this game. There is sooooooooooooooooo much to love about this game, but base-stealing is not part of it. It's a joke. (Do you hear that? It's the other sims laughing at OOTP 2007 for it's base-stealing engine.)

10-04-2007, 07:25 AM	#57
RonCo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 9,499	If you're happy, I'm happy.

10-04-2007, 02:29 PM	#59
RonCo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 9,499	I'll need to pull my injury test data out, but I'm fairly sure that runners can and do get injured while stealing. Perhaps it could be made a larger risk. Don't know if it's necessary or not. But I'm fairly sure running your guy every time you can does expose him to a greater injury risk. At the end of the day, my guess is that if catchers with poor arms were less likely to throw out runners, you would see the overall numbers get better than they are now. There would still be oddities and issues, but the numbers would probably get better. Only Markus knows for sure, though, because only he has the code.

10-04-2007, 04:20 PM	#60
Childress Minors (Double A) Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 180	There are set injury parameters for running and collisions, but not, specifically, for sliding. Which may or may not be meaningful. In the bigs in 2006, for example, SBs were successful ~73% of the time. In the simmed seasons I've managed in OOTP, it' runs 67-68%. Close, but the difference may be due to the slight over-effectiveness of catchers with weak arms at throwing out runners.