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OOTP 19 - Historical Simulations Discuss historical simulations and their results in this forum.

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Old 04-08-2018, 12:26 AM   #1
BaseballMan
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Did the wrong team make the playoffs?

After the season ended in 1884 the game has Providence making the playoffs but should they have made it. Chicago had one less loss and a better winning pctg. So what gives Providence the pennant? I could see if they had won more games. Is this correct or is something wrong here.
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Old 04-08-2018, 01:53 AM   #2
dtizzle
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After the season ended in 1884 the game has Providence making the playoffs but should they have made it. Chicago had one less loss and a better winning pctg. So what gives Providence the pennant? I could see if they had won more games. Is this correct or is something wrong here.


Weird. Looking at your standings it also says the White Stockings +1/2. Which insinuates they were a 1/2 game ahead not a 1/2 game back.


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Old 04-08-2018, 03:04 AM   #3
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Weird. Looking at your standings it also says the White Stockings +1/2. Which insinuates they were a 1/2 game ahead not a 1/2 game back.


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Yeah that also confused me.
Its a as played schedule but i don't think that would change anything. Except maybe having a team with a better winning pctg but less games beat out a team with more wins.
Not the case here.
I checked the schedule and there was no 1 game playoff between Providence and Chicago.
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Old 04-08-2018, 03:12 AM   #4
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In a way i kinda liked this although it doesn't seem right.
If i was doing a history of my league i would have to think of how this could happen. Cap Anson getting upset and refusing to play i could see happening. You can see some weird stuff in ootp sometimes.

Another oddity i noticed in this sim was that Providence had 3 no hitters in 1 year.
Two in one season by Radbourn.
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Old 04-08-2018, 07:43 AM   #5
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Yeah that also confused me.
Its a as played schedule but i don't think that would change anything. Except maybe having a team with a better winning pctg but less games beat out a team with more wins.
Not the case here.
I checked the schedule and there was no 1 game playoff between Providence and Chicago.
My guess is if you played the actual schedule Chicago finished 8 games under .500 and played one less game in reality. I know in the modern world they will make up a missed game if there are playoff implications. That would not have had to happen since Chicago was not in contention (if they did that in 1884)-so maybe ootp sees the season is over but Chicago didn't "finish" the season so didn't qualify since you played the real schedule and they played one less game Providence. Best I got....
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Old 04-08-2018, 12:17 PM   #6
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My guess is if you played the actual schedule Chicago finished 8 games under .500 and played one less game in reality. I know in the modern world they will make up a missed game if there are playoff implications. That would not have had to happen since Chicago was not in contention (if they did that in 1884)-so maybe ootp sees the season is over but Chicago didn't "finish" the season so didn't qualify since you played the real schedule and they played one less game Providence. Best I got....
So i checked the news and it does have Providence winning the pennant on Oct 8th when the standings would have been
Chicago 81-28
Providence 80-30.
So i could see Providence winning based on winning pctg.

Problem is that it was not the end of the season. I checked the real schedules and they match. Plus ootp even says the game to sim
till end of regular season on October 15th.
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Old 04-09-2018, 09:27 AM   #7
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So i checked the news and it does have Providence winning the pennant on Oct 8th when the standings would have been
Chicago 81-28
Providence 80-30.
So i could see Providence winning based on winning pctg.

Problem is that it was not the end of the season. I checked the real schedules and they match. Plus ootp even says the game to sim
till end of regular season on October 15th.
It's really bizarre. They shouldn't have clinched at that point. I have never run into this playing actual schedule and I wonder if that's where the this glitch comes in. Since Providence won the league that year by 10.5 games a lot of teams didn't play their full compliment of games. Even more strange I looked on Baseball Reference and the 1884 Sox were 52-60 yet it says they played 113 games. I can only assume one game was suspended and never finished but the stats counted?
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Old 04-09-2018, 08:39 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by dtizzle View Post
Weird. Looking at your standings it also says the White Stockings +1/2. Which insinuates they were a 1/2 game ahead not a 1/2 game back.
Usually when that happens the second-place team that is a ½-game ahead is (slightly) behind in winning percentage compared to the first-place team*. But that doesn't apply to your standings.

*Not all real-life leagues use winning percentage as the determinant of the order of standings; the Eastern League currently uses games behind, for example.


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I know in the modern world they will make up a missed game if there are playoff implications. That would not have had to happen since Chicago was not in contention (if they did that in 1884)...
The practice of playing make up games after the scheduled end of the regular season did not start until the early 1950s.


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Even more strange I looked on Baseball Reference and the 1884 Sox were 52-60 yet it says they played 113 games. I can only assume one game was suspended and never finished but the stats counted?
The other game was a tie. People always forget there are tie games in major (and minor) league baseball; it's just that they were uncommon. (Suspended games rules, incidentally, weren't invented until the 1940s, if I recall correctly, and have evolved over the years.)


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So i checked the news and it does have Providence winning the pennant on Oct 8th when the standings would have been
Chicago 81-28
Providence 80-30.
So i could see Providence winning based on winning pctg.

Problem is that it was not the end of the season. I checked the real schedules and they match. Plus ootp even says the game to sim
till end of regular season on October 15th.
What's the number of games listed as being the nominal amount of games for the regular season? That is, for a contemporary ML schedule, it's 162, so that's what would be entered in the league schedule set up section. What was used for your league? That number is used by OOTP to determine the magic number—and perhaps?—when a club clinches. If yours was set to something below the maximum amount of games scheduled for any one team, perhaps OOTP was misled into calculating the wrong clinching point.

For reference, here are the schedule parameters according to the originally published schedules for each league:

NL (8 teams): 112 games; May 1 through Oct. 11
AA (12 teams): 110 games; May 1 through Oct. 16

During the AA regular season, Washington dropped out and was replaced by Richmond, which took over Washington's remaining schedule.
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Old 04-10-2018, 06:56 AM   #9
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Usually when that happens the second-place team that is a ½-game ahead is (slightly) behind in winning percentage compared to the first-place team*. But that doesn't apply to your standings.

*Not all real-life leagues use winning percentage as the determinant of the order of standings; the Eastern League currently uses games behind, for example.


The practice of playing make up games after the scheduled end of the regular season did not start until the early 1950s.


The other game was a tie. People always forget there are tie games in major (and minor) league baseball; it's just that they were uncommon. (Suspended games rules, incidentally, weren't invented until the 1940s, if I recall correctly, and have evolved over the years.)


What's the number of games listed as being the nominal amount of games for the regular season? That is, for a contemporary ML schedule, it's 162, so that's what would be entered in the league schedule set up section. What was used for your league? That number is used by OOTP to determine the magic number—and perhaps?—when a club clinches. If yours was set to something below the maximum amount of games scheduled for any one team, perhaps OOTP was misled into calculating the wrong clinching point.

For reference, here are the schedule parameters according to the originally published schedules for each league:

NL (8 teams): 112 games; May 1 through Oct. 11
AA (12 teams): 110 games; May 1 through Oct. 16

During the AA regular season, Washington dropped out and was replaced by Richmond, which took over Washington's remaining schedule.
I can check after work.
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Old 04-10-2018, 07:15 PM   #10
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I forgot but i always check the number of games when importing the schedule and use the actual start date. I do import each as played schedule for each league with each league's start date.
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