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Old 05-08-2019, 11:36 AM   #1
Charlatan
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Is promotion based on playoff results only?

In my Iron league my team has the 2nd best record in the league. Unfortunately for me, the team with the best record is in my division. So I'm something like 5 games back. But if I look at the promotion/relegation screen, my team is listed second and seems destined for promotion.

But my question is this: when the season is over, does team W-L record mean anything with respect to promotion, or will the 4 teams promoted out of Iron be the WS participants and the 2 teams that lost in the league finals?
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Old 05-08-2019, 11:38 AM   #2
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In my Iron league my team has the 2nd best record in the league. Unfortunately for me, the team with the best record is in my division. So I'm something like 5 games back. But if I look at the promotion/relegation screen, my team is listed second and seems destined for promotion.

But my question is this: when the season is over, does team W-L record mean anything with respect to promotion, or will the 4 teams promoted out of Iron be the WS participants and the 2 teams that lost in the league finals?
the 4 LCS teams get promoted


in v19 a couple seasons ago, one of my teams won 114 games, but lost in the LDS and remained at the same level the next year.... the luck of the playoffs
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Old 05-08-2019, 11:45 AM   #3
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Well that sucks then because I have pretty bad playoff luck. I guess I can look at it as a chance to clean up in Iron a second week in a row!
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Old 05-08-2019, 10:14 PM   #4
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Is promotion based on playoff results only?

It should be some combination of regular season record and playoff result when getting to the World Series. I had the best overall record last season but lost to the wild card, so no promotion.

They should just up the promotion and relegation to 8.


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Old 05-08-2019, 11:12 PM   #5
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Now I wonder if people are tanking playoffs - much harder to detect than a full season tanking IMO - if they don't think they can handle the next tier.
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Old 05-09-2019, 10:27 AM   #6
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I find the game much more enjoyable when I focus on what I'm doing and not giving a crap what others do.
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Old 05-09-2019, 10:35 AM   #7
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I care not about what others do as long as they are legal. I am given the understanding that intentional tanking(or throwing games) is not. Either way, my main point is that promoting teams solely based on playoff series result is flawed, even if not manipulated, they just don't reflect a team's success and power level as good as looking at the whole season. Promoting teams based on a combination of regular season record and playoff results is better IMO as it minimizes the influence of luck affecting the promotion and reflects a team's overall performance in a tier much better.

Edit: I also like the higher amount of relegation. I think more division movement is more fun and (if we follow dave's suggestion of 8 relegation) fighting off relegation and having that pressure provides more entertainment to the lower records team. It gives them a purpose for the week than the typical "ah well, I ain't making playoff and I ain't relegating either so this season's whatever".

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Old 05-09-2019, 12:11 PM   #8
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I guess Goliathus' post leads to the question (which I've been pondering) : does more relegation/promotion help achieve balance? It does seem that only promoting 4 teams makes it really difficult go to up - as mentioned above, you need not only a good team, but you need a bit of luck (especially if you are a Wild Card team).

It seems to me that promoting 4 (6, whatever) teams and only relegating 2 teams makes it much more difficult to "escape" if your team is promoted and finds itself out of its depth... especially considering that the first couple of weeks had 8 or 12 teams getting promoted at once. Seems that when the "mass promotion" is in effect there should also be a "mass demotion" to balance things out.

So I suppose I think promoting/demoting more would help achieve balance.
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Old 05-09-2019, 01:02 PM   #9
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From a number standpoint, more movement between tiers(as long as it's not crazily overdone) is always going to be helpful in balancing or at least it would speed up the process of balancing. Essentially, the game moves a higher number of the top and bottom percentiles between levels and challenge them to prove that they are capable of staying in the higher level(or in the case of relegation, prove that they are indeed above the level they dropped to).

For an example(in a vacuum), let's say the top 30th percentile of Bronze are more capable of contending in Silver rank than the current lowest 30th percentile of Silver, due to their faster improvement, lucky pull or whatever. If only 6.67%(2/30) are going up and down, it would take 5 seasons for the divisions to adjust to its "true tier". If instead we double the amount, it would only take 2.5(so, 3) seasons. Theoretically, the levels are going to be more competitive and balanced with a higher (but still reasonable) amount of movement.

Or we can look at it in another way. Let's say there are "definitely silver" teams(that are well-off relegation spots in Silver), "Silver-Bronze"(the teams that are capable of good Bronze playoff runs and can possibly do decent in Silver depending on the league's composition) and "definitely bronze"(that are clearly not good enough and hardly make playoffs in Bronze). Having a higher numbers of promotion and relegation means that more of the "Silver-Bronze" teams are getting tested between both divisions on each season to determine if they can break out of that mold and whether they are truly leaning toward Silver or Bronze.
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Old 05-09-2019, 07:24 PM   #10
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if my team is clearly out of the playoff race and I am not in danger of being relegated i am going to probably check out of PT until Sunday night.


If you are in danger of being relegated and dont want to be relegated you will pay a lot more attention to your team which will make it more competitive for all the teams as they head down the stretch.


one aspect of promoting based on playoff results is that it really makes me focus on Sundays on the playoffs. It was super frustrating in 19 to have the best team during the week and then lose in sundays in the 5 game series to a WC team.



I do think there are too many perfect leagues given the level of competition...there are two super leagues that have a lot of the whale teams who would normally be populating across all the perfect leagues. I don't think OOTP anticipated this when they set up their game plan for number of leagues and how the pyramid would work.



based on the relegation numbers as they currently stand in perf leauge you have to actively work to get sent down. if you are a middling team now in perf leauge you are likely to be stuck at the level for as long as the servers run.
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Old 05-10-2019, 02:14 PM   #11
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From a number standpoint, more movement between tiers(as long as it's not crazily overdone) is always going to be helpful in balancing or at least it would speed up the process of balancing.
Definitely agree with this, just 4 teams moving up and down is still pretty limited.

This limitation, along with the luck of division placement, and playoff randomness, really causes some imbalances.

From my "3 team experiment" thread, there is a really good example of this. Currently, I have two teams who are both in diamond, and could get promoted to perfect next week. One of the teams is there because they are awesome and deserve it. The other team has been just barely above average at each level, but they keep getting really lucky with weak divisions, then they win 1 playoff series and get promoted.

If it was up to me I would increase the minimum for promotion/relegation to at least 6, and also base the promotions solely on regular season performance. Either record or run differential...anything based on 162 games is so much better than a short playoff series.
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Old 05-10-2019, 02:53 PM   #12
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IMO, you promote 8 teams -- all of the playoff teams minus the Wild Card loser. And you also relegate 6-8 teams. That would allow for a lot more fluid movement between the levels. And you also incentivize moving up the levels, so making the Divisional Round of the playoffs isn't an aww shucks moment.

In this case, promotion mostly takes into account regular season success anyways. You'd have the odd case where a super-good Wild Card team loses their one-game playoff... but that team would probably be promoted next year.
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Old 05-10-2019, 09:14 PM   #13
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Edit: I also like the higher amount of relegation. I think more division movement is more fun and fighting off relegation and having that pressure provides more entertainment to the lower records team. It gives them a purpose for the week than the typical "ah well, I ain't making playoff and I ain't relegating either so this season's whatever".
Exactly! Increasing the relegation (and promotion) is like survivor mode.

Unfortunately the devs are doing the opposite with 4 promotions and 2 relegations. Looks like Stucksville for most teams.
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Old 05-11-2019, 04:15 PM   #14
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My Frankenthal Retros (F2P) led all teams in our Iron Level league with a 103 wins last year ... lost in the first round and didn't get promoted.

Currently we stand at 101-42, including a 19-game win streak and a 9-game win streak
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Old 05-12-2019, 01:04 PM   #15
Chico Guilbault
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106 wins for me this season in Diamond...about to get swept and bounced by the wildcard. Same team I've run out there and dominated with all year. Let the record show that it's not my fault I'm not moving up!
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Old 05-12-2019, 03:09 PM   #16
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For the second year in a row my F2P Frankenthal Retros won the most games in the league ... we just lost 3-1 to the wild-card team, which unfortunately was the second winningest team in the entire league.

So I guess that will mean another year of Iron
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and I say it's because he's black,
that might not be a satisfactory answer.


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Old 05-12-2019, 03:53 PM   #17
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I find the game much more enjoyable when I focus on what I'm doing and not giving a crap what others do.
Also having a Statis Pro Baseball board as an avatar surely helps.
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Old 05-12-2019, 04:17 PM   #18
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For the second straight week I had the best record overall but lost to the Wild Card in the best of 5 series. I guess Gold is going to be a permanent home for the Big Bats?
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Old 05-12-2019, 04:18 PM   #19
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Also having a Statis Pro Baseball board as an avatar surely helps.
Use to love that game. But I had to get a 2nd deck of cards and cover the top numbers as it was easy to predict what numbers were coming.
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Old 05-12-2019, 04:20 PM   #20
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For the second year in a row my F2P Frankenthal Retros won the most games in the league ... we just lost 3-1 to the wild-card team, which unfortunately was the second winningest team in the entire league.

So I guess that will mean another year of Iron
Ditto for my Gold team. But the Wild card only won 86 games during the regular season.
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