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Old 06-06-2006, 08:40 PM   #1
redmarkYankees
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1871 Historical Workaround

UPDATE: 1871 Quickstart available requiring only minor change by user to have 1871 rookies import properly in March 1871, then 1872 rookies in December.

http://www.jnshmoo.us/OOTP/RMY_1871_QuickStart.zip

Many thanks to jnshmoo for the hosting.


Quickstart Instructions:

Game loads on 1st March 1871, with the draft ready to go immediately - 95 historical 1871 debutants. Rosters are full of fairly poor scrubs, to avoid roster errors.

User will need to do 2 things, the day after the draft:
- Amend DB path to one which their setup/installation.
- Change 'Draft Date' to (suggested) 31st December 1871. This allows import of 1872 rookies in time for the 1872 season.


----


OK, I think I've figured a few things out. Certainly, I've got a league which started in 1871 without a phantom 1870, imports historical rookies for the correct season and works from the Arod/Garlon DB. Currently simmed from 1871 to 1900. After a small amount of work at the start, that's been completely auto, with the draft appearing to work correctly every year.

If you start a league in 1871 with preseason already underway, the rookie draft imports 1872 rookies, not 1871 rookies. This is why we've had workarounds which need a 'dummy' 1870 season to be simmed first.

Another way of doing it occurred to me: before an early-season 1871 draft, amend the debut years in the DB to 1872 (taking care not to also import actual 1872 rookies). This works, to a point: the point where the game crashes, just as it completes the import for the 'draft pool announcement'. The cause of this crash turns out to be because the 1871 rookies (now amended to debut in 1872, though in game this means March 1871), have 1871 history. So, we delete the 1871 history from the database files. The draft works!

After the draft, change the draft date in 'Rules' to 31st December 1871. Replace the amended database csv files with the originals. Sim 1871. Draft 1872 rookies on 31st December 1871, continue...

Another thing I've found over many attempts is that amending the league structure at the 'create game' stage often just breaks historical drafts completely. I can't pin it down, but I've made identical options setups with a default fictional (2 leagues, 2 divisions, x 4 teams) and simmed straight to a working draft, whereas just about any amendment to the structure breaks it. However, if you start the game with the default 16-team fictional league, you then seem to be able to make significant changes to structure (e.g. delete a division from each league) without hurting the historical draft.


The amendments to the DB required to get the first 2 drafts working in the same year are too much to do manually. I did them with a vba script, run from Excel though not using Excel itself. I can probably provide this, so that you run a script prior to the 1st draft and a second script following it, which make all changes required, without actually permanently amending your original DB files. These run in a few seconds. Alternatively, copies of the amended csv files and instructions on when to switch them with the originals, and back.
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Last edited by redmarkYankees; 06-07-2006 at 07:19 PM.
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Old 06-06-2006, 09:08 PM   #2
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Quite inventive, but a touch intimidating for those of us who don't usually edit game files. I've gotten kind of attached to the idea of my mixed universe, anyway. I'm almost through with the manual imports for 1871. I sim very slowly, so you may run 100 histories before I finish 1875.
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Old 06-06-2006, 09:28 PM   #3
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Well, if people are interested I can provide the script to do all the editing (only of the db files, not any OOTP files) and switching between amended/originals, or provide copies of the temporary workaround files. The scripts are very convenient, takes seconds.

Once I'd finally worked stuff out, the real solution is very simple: the game should default to start in the 'offseason' rather than 'preseason', and none of this would be necessary - first year rookies would import properly on 1st March, once set. Though the league setup still seems unstable and easily 'breaks' historical imports...
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Old 06-06-2006, 09:28 PM   #4
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Any chance of making a quickstart once you get it all set up?
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Old 06-06-2006, 09:36 PM   #5
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Yeah. Why not get everything set up to where the players are imported from your workaround and then save the quickstart right before the initial draft. Then all the downloader has to do is conduct the initial draft and then reset the draft date to December 31.

I'd definitely be interested in that QS if I can ever figure out what exactly is causing my game to keep crashing after I get to the mid 20's or so.
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Old 06-06-2006, 09:49 PM   #6
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Now that I've done this, some of the 1871-1920 stats are 'interesting'.

Ty Cobb has avoided a CEI so far, but currently has just a .272 career average. Cy Young retired in 1908 with a 273-238 record, a 3.77 ERA, 1.31 WHIP and no place in the hall. He did win a couple of, erm, Pitcher of the Year awards, but was in the minors (actually, reserves) from 1903, released 4 times and never got another day in the majors.

The hitting leaderboard is dominated by Otto Schomberg, who had a 25-year 1-team career giving him the lead in virtually every accumulated stat, though his averages weren't spectacular. His pitching equivalent was Hardie Henderson, who amassed a 560-553 record in 1117 starts, 1034 of them complete games, between 1883 and 1903. Ross Barnes had 11 MVP's in the first 12 seasons of the league. Cannon Titcomb had 6 POY's.
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Old 06-06-2006, 09:55 PM   #7
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Happy to do a quickstart, if someone can suggest league structure and team name setup (or perhaps co-operate on a quickstart with someone with better historical knowledge). So far I've just used fictionals, but I'm now fairly confident with adjusting stuff after the initial creation; everything seems much more stable if you use the default 16-team initial fictional setup.

Probably best to have 2 quickstarts; one before the draft would also require the db file switching still***; one after could have fairly historical player drafting with everything then set to not require any db file switches.


***Ah, you're right: once imported to the pool, wouldn't need file switching. Good thinking.
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Old 06-06-2006, 10:21 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redmarkYankees
So far I've just used fictionals, but I'm now fairly confident with adjusting stuff after the initial creation; everything seems much more stable if you use the default 16-team initial fictional setup.
I'm curious, by more stable, are you referring to crashes?

I've been having horrible crash problems with Tiger Fan's Quickstart and Trying to run my own imported league from 1901. I've run Tiger Fan's on two computers. On my laptop I can only get to about 1923 or so before I start getting crashes. My tower can make it to 1945. I can't narrow it down to any specific event though. It generally happens somewhere in the middle months of the season.

When it first started happening, I could avoid it by starting to sim shorter lengths. Daily or weekly rather than to the end of the year or multiple years. Then it might run for a couple years and then start crashing again.

Very frustrating!

I'll have to try a fully fictional sim and see how far I can get it to go.
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Old 06-06-2006, 10:40 PM   #9
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No, I was really using "stability" there regarding historical rookies importing. For some reason, editing the league structure during game creation appears to very often do something in the background that prevents rookies importing properly. It sounds odd, because there's no real link; (speculation: I suspect it might be to do with the number of "active" teams, number of draft rounds and size of draft pool being calculated at some point during creation, and disregarding the historical draft if something doesn't add up).

If you're experiencing crashes as you progress in time (particularly in that you get them earlier on the laptop than the tower - relative specs?), that IMO strongly suggests memory problems, as are being discussed in the technical support forum. It appears that the design means that a lot of historical data is permanently stored in RAM, which expands every season... an odd design decision, IMHO.
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Old 06-06-2006, 10:47 PM   #10
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Hmm. I have had difficulties with the importing of the rookies in the past too. I always thought that it had to do with the fact that I pointed directly to the Master.csv file rather than just to the directory that it was in. After I changed to the containing directory, I didn't see any import problems.

I'll have to try rebooting and continuing my sims and see if that helps.

The specs on my laptop and tower are similar. The laptop runs faster because it's newer and has dual core and all that jazz, but I'm pretty sure both machines have a gig of RAM. I'll have to check that.
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Old 06-07-2006, 12:07 AM   #11
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To keep the setup stable, and until active/inactive sub-leagues work, the ideal quickstart for this would be 8 teams (11 players each from 1871 draft), split into 2 sub leagues, 1 division in each.

Suggested, from teams that appeared in 1871 or 1872, and were the most long-lived:

"AL"

New York Mutuals (NY2)
Baltimore Canaries (BL1)
Washington Olympics (WS3)
Philadelphia Athletics (PH1)

"NL"

Boston Red Stockings (BS1)
Brooklyn Atlantics (BR2)
Washington Nationals (WS4)
Chicago White Stockings (CH1)

Any objections/suggestions?


Other suggested factors: please feel free to give alternatives, my historical knowledge is minimal.

Batter ageing speed 1.100. Seemed to work reasonably well on my first test, especially for this era. Perhaps should be increased slightly later. Pitcher ageing speed 0.900. Perhaps increased a little later.

Scouting off. Coaches on. Untick hidden players. Trading frequency low, disable injuries (and set to very low/low fatigue). Ratings 1-20. 20 man roster, disable expanded, disable secondary, enable trading, disable free agency (?).

Strategies (in order): v.rare, v.rare, v.high, 3-man, v.rare, rare, rare, often, often, often. ?

Creation modifiers - reserves/backups for first seasons: suggest 1/4 of the imported modifiers for 1871, to keep balance.


Need suggestions for: Financial coefficient and any other financials changes (cash max, revenue sharing), all star game.
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Old 06-07-2006, 12:29 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redmarkYankees
To keep the setup stable, and until active/inactive sub-leagues work, the ideal quickstart for this would be 8 teams (11 players each from 1871 draft), split into 2 sub leagues, 1 division in each.

Suggested, from teams that appeared in 1871 or 1872, and were the most long-lived:

"AL"

New York Mutuals (NY2)
Baltimore Canaries (BL1)
Washington Olympics (WS3)
Philadelphia Athletics (PH1)

"NL"

Boston Red Stockings (BS1)
Brooklyn Atlantics (BR2)
Washington Nationals (WS4)
Chicago White Stockings (CH1)

Any objections/suggestions?


Other suggested factors: please feel free to give alternatives, my historical knowledge is minimal.

Batter ageing speed 1.100. Seemed to work reasonably well on my first test, especially for this era. Perhaps should be increased slightly later. Pitcher ageing speed 0.900. Perhaps increased a little later.

Scouting off. Coaches on. Untick hidden players. Trading frequency low, disable injuries (and set to very low/low fatigue). Ratings 1-20. 20 man roster, disable expanded, disable secondary, enable trading, disable free agency (?).

Strategies (in order): v.rare, v.rare, v.high, 3-man, v.rare, rare, rare, often, often, often. ?

Creation modifiers - reserves/backups for first seasons: suggest 1/4 of the imported modifiers for 1871, to keep balance.


Need suggestions for: Financial coefficient and any other financials changes (cash max, revenue sharing), all star game.
Financial Coefficient should probably be something like .003-.005. Leave off the All-Star game. We can always add it later. If you have free agency, it should be extended to something like 10 years of service with no arbitration.
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Old 06-07-2006, 12:54 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swampdragon
Financial Coefficient should probably be something like .003-.005. Leave off the All-Star game. We can always add it later. If you have free agency, it should be extended to something like 10 years of service with no arbitration.
If you want accuracy, 1871 - 1879 was wide open free agency with a lot of one-year contracts and escalating (for the time) contracts.

The reserve clause came into being in 1880 whereby each team 'reserved' five players. These players could not be signed by other National League owners essentially making them life-time employees of a given team unless they decided to retire or jump to another league. The number of players allowed to be reserved grew to 14 or so by the end of the decade and then the reserve clause began being written into player contracts (where as previously it was an agreement between owners rather than a contractual matter between owner and player).

So, free agency was complete until the 1880 season and remained for second tier players until nearly 1890. Afterward, players were property of whoever held their contract until Curt Flood in the 70s.

That may not be completely accurate (jump in any of you historians) but up to 1880, I would have free agency with a low average contract length.

As for salaries, while I am sure that there are some resources somewhere, The Hartford Dark Blues who began play in 1874 contracted their first batch of "experienced, if unspectacular players for salaries ranging from $800 to $2,000" *

The Hartford team was started with $5,000 in capital and drew crowds ranging from 3,000 to 12,000 depending on the opponent.

I don't know if that helps you folks that are familiar with building financial models in OOTP but if it does and you have come up with good financial modifiers, I would love to see them!


* 'Grace, Grit and Growling' by David Arcidiacono page 13
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Old 06-07-2006, 01:01 AM   #14
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1974 Hartford Dark Blues who comanded salaries of $800-$2,000 each:

Scott Hastings
Everett Mills
Lip Pike
Bob Addy
Jim Tipper
Billy Barnie
Tom Barlow
Steve Brady
Orator Shaffer
Jack Farrell
Jack Manning
Fancy O'Neil
Cherokee Fisher (decent pitcher when he wasn't on a bender)
Bill Stearns (switch pitcher)
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Old 06-07-2006, 01:16 AM   #15
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Ticket prices:

Player salaries might have been about $15,000 per year, assume another $5,000 in sundry expenses. They need to make at least that in revenue.

Assume roughly 60% of their revenue came from home ticket sales (just a guess, assuming road shares and other misc revenue)

Average attendance of 6,000 at roughly 25 home dates = 150,000 attendees.

$20,000 * .6 = $12,000

150,000/12,000 = 8 cents/ticket

Just a crude guess. Does anyone have any real data?
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Old 06-07-2006, 05:30 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS
1874 Hartford Dark Blues who comanded salaries of $800-$2,000 each:
I looked this up out of curiousity:

$14,157.58 in the year 2005 has the same "purchase power" as $800 in the year 1875.

$35,393.94 in the year 2005 has the same "purchase power" as $2000 in the year 1875.

A 1871 quickstart would be much appreciated... I must have set 10 of them up so far and for some reason or another, I had to re-do it because something went wrong, I had a poor statistical outcome or I didn't have an initial setting correct. Thanks!
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Old 06-07-2006, 05:35 AM   #17
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As far as ticket prices go, I found this in the "fast facts" section of baseball-almanac.com:

"Did you know that on March 25, 1879, the National League voted to keep the fifty cent admission (50¢) price to all baseball games?"
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Old 06-07-2006, 06:37 AM   #18
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Got a Quickstart that appears to work quite nicely, have simmed through to 1900 from it with occasional schedule/options changes without breaking anything.

Didn't do much with financials apart from setting coefficient to 0.005. All other settings still editable. Set FA's at 10 years, gave all teams a default 100-factors 'Ballpark', etc. Starts on 1st March, with Draft ready. Teams are full of scrubs, which are better left to avoid short-roster errors. League is of course short of pitchers - upto you how to handle this, but can add clones of the SP? Setup a 54 game schedule for season 1, which could also be edited to space out the games and allow starter to start every game, possibly.


Now... anyone able to host?
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Old 06-07-2006, 09:55 AM   #19
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I don't know who runs the site, but www.sortitoutsi.net has download areas for all of the SI products.
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Old 06-07-2006, 11:19 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redmarkYankees


Need suggestions for: Financial coefficient and any other financials changes (cash max, revenue sharing), all star game.

Did you want me to extend my suggested coefficients back to 1871?
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