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Old 12-05-2019, 11:20 PM   #1
ezpkns34
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Worst WS Winner of the 21st century?

I imagine the White Sox or Royals would win a vote, but maybe I'm wrong. Just curious what others' opinions are
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Old 12-05-2019, 11:25 PM   #2
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I will go with the simple answer.

The 2006 St Louis Cardinals managed to go just 83-78 in the regular season before winning the World Series.

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Old 12-06-2019, 01:44 AM   #3
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Quote:
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I will go with the simple answer.

The 2006 St Louis Cardinals managed to go just 83-78 in the regular season before winning the World Series.

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As a lifelong Cardinals fan I disagree. That team started the season great but was hit by injury bugs in the middle. One or two guys not getting hurt and that team wins 90 games easy.

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Old 12-06-2019, 01:45 AM   #4
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As a lifelong Cardinals fan I disagree. That team started the season great but was hit by injury bugs in the middle. One or two guys not getting hurt and that team wins 90 games easy.

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You could have a good point.

They certainly were dominant come post season time.

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Old 12-06-2019, 02:04 AM   #5
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An impossible question to answer. Much too broad.

The first problem is what is meant by "team". The 25 guys who start the season are (almost always) different from the 25 guys who end the season. And both of those are (almost always) different from the 25 guys who walk off the field as World Series Champions.

So, who's the team? Or is the team anyone who played for the team during that year?
This is what most people look at. For, I don't think, any other reason that because it's the easiest thing to look at.

And, what's meant by "best"? Win-Loss record, as seen above, is one way to look at it. But it shouldn't be too controversial to say that the team with the best record isn't always the best team.


Here's a list of World Series winners and their baseball-reference WAA during their championship season.
  • 2000 Yankees 3.6 - 13
    2001 DBacks 17.8 - 3
    2002 Angels 17.8 - 3
    2003 Marlins 8.2 - 8
    2004 Red Sox 16.4 - 2
    2005 White Sox 8.8 - 10
    2006 Cardinals 0.5 - 17
    2007 Red Sox 22.3 - 1
    2008 Phillies 11.7 - 4
    2009 Yankees 19.0 - 1
    2010 Giants 13.4 - 2
    2011 Cardinals 6.4 - 7
    2012 Giants 7.6 - 9
    2013 Red Sox 20.0 - 1
    2014 Giants 2.8 - 13
    2015 Royals 6.8 - 8
    2016 Cubs 25.7 - 1
    2017 Astros 17.1 - 3
    2018 Red Sox 20.8 - 2
    2019 Nationals 14.3 - 5
*source

By this measure the 2006 Cardinals would have an argument for worst 2000's team to win a World Series. That team had both the lowest WAA and the lowest ranking (by WAA).

But, I don't really think that's a very good measure.

Personally, I think the best way to answer this question is to look at the 25 guys who made the World Series roster (not the 41 (I think) guys who appeared in a game during the season) and then try to figure out, probably by using projections, what their true talent levels were and look at it that way.

But, I'm not going to do that. Not right now. And not for free on this site.

Of course, you'd still have problems: how to account for playing time, how to account for injuries, etc...
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Old 12-06-2019, 02:17 AM   #6
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2006 Cardinals. They barely had a positive run differential. +18 if I remember my research correctly.

Only one World Series winner has a negative run differential. Can anyone name it without Googling it?
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Old 12-06-2019, 11:25 AM   #7
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Only one World Series winner has a negative run differential. Can anyone name it without Googling it?
This team also had a negative WAA -2.1. 19th in league that year.
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Old 12-06-2019, 12:44 PM   #8
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This team also had a negative WAA -2.1. 19th in league that year.
NM
I misunderstood what you wrote
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Old 12-06-2019, 03:29 PM   #9
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97 Florida Marlins.
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Old 12-06-2019, 03:33 PM   #10
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97 Florida Marlins.
Wrong century
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Old 12-06-2019, 03:58 PM   #11
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Wrong century
I only saw "worst world series winners" I hate them with a passion. If it had been the early 1900s I'd have posted them
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Old 12-06-2019, 05:05 PM   #12
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2000 isn't part of the 21st century. It's the last year of the 20th. 1-100 is the 1st century, 101-200 is the 2nd, and so on.
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Old 12-06-2019, 06:25 PM   #13
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I need to speak up for my 2006 Cardinals.
Their record and deep team SABR numbers don't speak too highly of them.
On May 29, Memorial Day, they were 33-18, owners of the best record in the National League.
Than, the injuries hit.
Albert Pujols, David Eckstein, Scott Rolen and Jim Edmonds and Jason Isringhausen all missed significant time with injuries
.Edmonds only played in 110 games and Eckstein in 123. Pujols only appeared in 143 when he had never played in fewer than 154 before that.

Izzy blew his hip out some time after the All-Star break and was awful down the stretch eventually being replaced as closer for the postseason by Adam Wainwright.

(Yadier Molina may have as gotten hurt as well, but I cannot confirm it as it was just his second full season as a starter).
The thing is, despite staggering down the stretch, they got healthy.


On the day before the division series started in San Diego,
manager Tony La Russa said, "I looked out on that field and for the first time since Memorial Day, we had Edmonds, Rolen, Eckstein, Pujols and Molina on the field at the same time and Chris Carpenter ready to pitch. I knew than we had a chance."
So it's always miffed me when people automatically call this Cardinals team the worst World Series champion of the 21st century or of all time.
Sure, they probably were not as good as their own 2004 and 2005 teams, but those were probably two of the best of the Cardinals teams of all time

They just got run over by a freight train in the 2004 Red Sox and ran into a red-hot Roy Oswalt in 2005.
I'd take the 2006 Cards over any number of teams, including the 2002 Angels, the 2005 White Sox, 2015 Royals and maybe some of the Giants teams.

Just had to state my case for my team.

Last edited by rink23; 12-07-2019 at 04:18 AM.
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Old 12-06-2019, 08:32 PM   #14
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According to OOTP it's the 2014 Giants.
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Old 12-07-2019, 11:23 AM   #15
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I vote for the 2006 Cardinals because I know it will cause my late uncle (a huge Card fan) to turn over in his grave but let's give the 2003 Marlins some love too.
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Old 12-07-2019, 09:57 PM   #16
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RE injuries, the question wasn't the worst starting nine. The question was the worst team.
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Old 12-08-2019, 12:37 AM   #17
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Seeing as how they got caught cheating the year they won the World Series, do the 2017 Astros get any consideration?

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Old 12-11-2019, 09:57 AM   #18
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The 17 Astros were a very good team. Cheating, they must have gotten a case of NE Patriots disease.
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