Official OOTP 18 Feedback Thread - Page 12

wolverinebball11 · 03-26-2017, 03:01 AM

It seems the AI is often making incorrect decisions a real life manager/GM would never make. There are 3 specific things I've noticed:

1. Not bunting with the pitcher in obvious bunt situations. This has come up a few times. There will be fewer than 2 outs in the early-to-middle innings with the pitcher up and a runner on first. In real life, this is basically an automatic bunt, but every time it has happened in the game the pitcher swings away and makes an unproductive out.

2. Not making wise decisions with starting lineups. I started a season as the Brewers, who's first series of the year is against the Rockies. In all 4 games of the series, healthy Carlos Gonzalez sat the bench behind rookies like Jordan Patterson and Raimel Tapia. He has vastly superior ratings and track record to these guys and in real life they would never consistently play over him unless he was injured.

3. Not making wise roster decisions. As a rebuilding Brewers team, I'm naturally checking the waiver wire for potential additions. Lo and behold, Tyler Thornburg (2.15 ERA and 12.1 K/9 last season) had been waived by the Red Sox. In the Red Sox bullpen in his stead were Brandon League and Matt Lindstrom. Neither of them even pitched at all last season and neither has been in the big leagues since 2014, and of course both have vastly inferior ratings. This is another thing a real life GM would never do.

FWIW, these have all happened in a game played on Challenge Mode. Not sure if any other specific information or screenshots would be helpful here, but if so I'd be happy to provide them.

injury log · 03-26-2017, 03:38 AM

It's possible there are certain AI preferences that are responsible for some of those behaviours. If you feel like digging around your game a bit, it might be possible to find an 'explanation' for what you're seeing. With the bunting, it might be that the AI team's manager has sabermetric tendencies, and/or a 'very low' bunting frequency preference in his Strategy, and that is the reason the game is deciding to swing away, even with a pitcher. Now, whether the Manager should ever hate bunting so much he doesn't let even his pitchers do it is a separate question, but it would at least be interesting to know if it was a Manager preference that is responsible, or if it's a ubiquitous AI behaviour independent of Manager strategies.

It might also be true that Manager preferences account for some unusual lineup choices. If a Manager really loves speed, that might explain why CarGo sits and other slightly faster guys play ahead of him. But if that's the explanation, then that Manager preference is having far too drastic an effect. If that's not the explanation, I'm at a bit of a loss to guess why Patterson would play over CarGo. I just checked my current game, and CarGo got a peculiarly low number of GS in the 2017 season I just finished (with a 1.032 OPS, not a guy you want sitting very often!). He did have several injuries, but even when healthy he was used as a PH a lot.

I've asked on beta that AI evaluation of relievers be looked at further. That's a longstanding issue, present in every version of the game I've played - the AI seems to undervalue certain good relievers (and especially relief prospects). I haven't yet seen a guy as good as Thornburg on waivers, but I have seen AI teams fail to protect pretty decent RP prospects from expansion drafts or rule 5 drafts, and AI teams are willing to part with those guys too cheaply in trade - not 5-star guys, but more guys in the 3 to 4 star potential range. There's no preference I can think of that would lead an AI team to waive Thornburg (and keep League), so I'd have to guess that's a symptom of a general AI problem around RP evaluation. Luckily that kind of thing doesn't seem to happen very often.

AlpineSK · 03-26-2017, 05:49 AM

Love the layout of the game. LOVE the 3D. It has evolved nicely. I havent seen the improvements that I expected but I think I might understand why.

Almost every GM has their personal trade preferences and their recruitment values (valuing development, international FA"s etc) set identically. Are these going to get some attention or is it ultimately going to be up to the user to change these?

wolverinebball11 · 03-26-2017, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by injury log

It's possible there are certain AI preferences that are responsible for some of those behaviours. If you feel like digging around your game a bit, it might be possible to find an 'explanation' for what you're seeing. With the bunting, it might be that the AI team's manager has sabermetric tendencies, and/or a 'very low' bunting frequency preference in his Strategy, and that is the reason the game is deciding to swing away, even with a pitcher. Now, whether the Manager should ever hate bunting so much he doesn't let even his pitchers do it is a separate question, but it would at least be interesting to know if it was a Manager preference that is responsible, or if it's a ubiquitous AI behaviour independent of Manager strategies.

It might also be true that Manager preferences account for some unusual lineup choices. If a Manager really loves speed, that might explain why CarGo sits and other slightly faster guys play ahead of him. But if that's the explanation, then that Manager preference is having far too drastic an effect. If that's not the explanation, I'm at a bit of a loss to guess why Patterson would play over CarGo. I just checked my current game, and CarGo got a peculiarly low number of GS in the 2017 season I just finished (with a 1.032 OPS, not a guy you want sitting very often!). He did have several injuries, but even when healthy he was used as a PH a lot.

I've asked on beta that AI evaluation of relievers be looked at further. That's a longstanding issue, present in every version of the game I've played - the AI seems to undervalue certain good relievers (and especially relief prospects). I haven't yet seen a guy as good as Thornburg on waivers, but I have seen AI teams fail to protect pretty decent RP prospects from expansion drafts or rule 5 drafts, and AI teams are willing to part with those guys too cheaply in trade - not 5-star guys, but more guys in the 3 to 4 star potential range. There's no preference I can think of that would lead an AI team to waive Thornburg (and keep League), so I'd have to guess that's a symptom of a general AI problem around RP evaluation. Luckily that kind of thing doesn't seem to happen very often.

Thanks for the response. I took a look at the manager preferences, which may at least be somewhat of an explanation. Sac bunts for this particular manager (Bud Black) are set at below average, though the bar remains yellow and roughly in the middle, so it doesn't seem to be an extreme tendency for him.

It also looks like you're right about manager preferences causing CarGo to sit. Black strongly favors speed to power, which must be the reason for CarGo sitting. As you also said, however, a preference for speed, even a strong one, shouldn't cause Player A to start because he's faster when Player B is better at everything else.

Red08 · 03-26-2017, 02:33 PM

I'm still seeing a ton of veteran for veteran trades and as a rebuilding team I've set my team preference for young players but the only trade offers i get are minor leaguer for minor leaguer

chriskelly · 03-26-2017, 02:49 PM

thinking thru your Col issue, if Car-Go isn't playing because the manager prefers speed, he should logically be on the trading block; there's no reason to keep a player with that level of skill and that salary on the bench.

drhay53 · 03-26-2017, 03:40 PM

Would be nice to get a message when a player is fully healed from an "unknown" recovery time injury. Playing with high injuries it can be hard to keep track of everything.

injury log · 03-26-2017, 04:08 PM

It might be that speed preference that causes the issue, or that might just be coincidence - the best way to check would be to go in to Commissioner Mode, edit the Manager so he doesn't care much for speed, then ask the Manager for his new Depth Charts. If it turns out that preference is the issue, I'll log it on beta.

zappa1 · 03-26-2017, 04:37 PM

I've been playing out my games and I am impressed with the 3D improvement. Still some work to do on it. I noticed that playing with the OOTP ballparks from the game is where the choppiness occurs. When I use a park made by Silvam or Adion or others, the game play is very smooth. Of course, those parks don't have animated crowds moving about. hmmmmmm, I wonder if there is something to that? Anyway, the 3D has improved to where when a ball is hit, you just don't know if the fielder is gonna make the play or not. Same with throws and slides into bases. You just don't know now. That makes it very exciting to watch a play and think it's gonna be one way but it turns out the opposite way. I find myself yelling at the screen, no, no, he's safe. He beat the play. Ah, man. Or a drive to the gap and I'm like, ohhhhh, he caught it. I'm like, no way. Awesome. And they are gonna improve on this even more. Great. This version is way the best one, yet.

wolverinebball11 · 03-26-2017, 04:44 PM

It may actually have something to do with the WBC. At the very beginning of the season, before the WBC, CarGo is listed in the lineup batting 4th and playing RF. After I sim through the WBC to Opening Day, CarGo is taken out of the starting lineup. Even after changing Black's preferences to be neutral toward speed or power, CarGo is still left out of the lineup. In fact, even if I change his preference to be entirely the other way, with a strong preference of power over speed, he still doesn't put CarGo into the lineup.

injury log · 03-26-2017, 05:19 PM

Thanks for checking the speed/power preference. I'm now not sure what the issue is - in my game, I didn't include the WBC, but I seem to be having the same issue you're having. I'll raise it on beta.

RickD · 03-26-2017, 08:21 PM

First time buyer and so far I am loving it. I just dipped in one game as a manager and one as a GM just to get the feel. In manager mode as a Yankee I was shocked the Brian Cashman traded away Aaron Judge....

I anticipate years of enjoyment with this game.

DustinthePOWERHOUSE · 03-27-2017, 10:04 AM

Not sure if this is a new feature, I should've read the list more clearly or at all, but it's nice that when hovering over an injured player in the trade screen they give you a brief summary of the injury like "strained shoulder." Helps to see the severity of the injury so you can determine whether to trade for the player or not.

Orioles1966 · 03-27-2017, 10:21 AM

I don't know if this has been mentioned but many of my Fictional Leagues 40 man rosters have more than ten catchers while other 40 man rosters only have 2 catchers.

Chico Guilbault · 03-27-2017, 01:01 PM

Did I see that a patch was coming out today or was it for sometime this week?

Lukas Berger · 03-27-2017, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjl518

Zack Wheeler for the Mets is no longer injured and is pitching in Spring Training...

for your opening day roster update...i would have him active for the Mets

your current roster set has him out for 6-7 weeks.

Thanks! Fixed!

Lukas Berger · 03-27-2017, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chico Guilbault

Did I see that a patch was coming out today or was it for sometime this week?

Should be today.

Alessandro · 03-27-2017, 01:29 PM

I posted a review of the game.

http://www.sportsgamersonline.com/ou...all-18-review/

Have a good read!

Lukas Berger · 03-27-2017, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alessandro

I posted a review of the game.

http://www.sportsgamersonline.com/ou...all-18-review/

Have a good read!

Cool review, thanks!

AESP_pres · 03-27-2017, 04:54 PM

I didn't want to wait this year like I did with 15, 16 and 17 so it's already downloading on my computer from Steam... In fact, I took my decision 10 minutes ago.

Really want to see the difference with the Negro League added to the historical mode

I sure got a lot of fun with this game since I purchased OOTP 2007 ten years ago

03-26-2017, 03:01 AM	#221
wolverinebball11 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 39	Great game as always. A few things I've noticed about the AI. It seems the AI is often making incorrect decisions a real life manager/GM would never make. There are 3 specific things I've noticed: 1. Not bunting with the pitcher in obvious bunt situations. This has come up a few times. There will be fewer than 2 outs in the early-to-middle innings with the pitcher up and a runner on first. In real life, this is basically an automatic bunt, but every time it has happened in the game the pitcher swings away and makes an unproductive out. 2. Not making wise decisions with starting lineups. I started a season as the Brewers, who's first series of the year is against the Rockies. In all 4 games of the series, healthy Carlos Gonzalez sat the bench behind rookies like Jordan Patterson and Raimel Tapia. He has vastly superior ratings and track record to these guys and in real life they would never consistently play over him unless he was injured. 3. Not making wise roster decisions. As a rebuilding Brewers team, I'm naturally checking the waiver wire for potential additions. Lo and behold, Tyler Thornburg (2.15 ERA and 12.1 K/9 last season) had been waived by the Red Sox. In the Red Sox bullpen in his stead were Brandon League and Matt Lindstrom. Neither of them even pitched at all last season and neither has been in the big leagues since 2014, and of course both have vastly inferior ratings. This is another thing a real life GM would never do. FWIW, these have all happened in a game played on Challenge Mode. Not sure if any other specific information or screenshots would be helpful here, but if so I'd be happy to provide them.

03-26-2017, 05:49 AM	#223
AlpineSK All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bear, DE Posts: 1,618	Love the layout of the game. LOVE the 3D. It has evolved nicely. I havent seen the improvements that I expected but I think I might understand why. Almost every GM has their personal trade preferences and their recruitment values (valuing development, international FA"s etc) set identically. Are these going to get some attention or is it ultimately going to be up to the user to change these? __________________ Check out my Sims!! 2013 Boston Red Sox Or my blogs: http://www.medicsbk.com The Sports Medic

03-27-2017, 10:04 AM	#233
DustinthePOWERHOUSE All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Boston Posts: 871	Not sure if this is a new feature, I should've read the list more clearly or at all, but it's nice that when hovering over an injured player in the trade screen they give you a brief summary of the injury like "strained shoulder." Helps to see the severity of the injury so you can determine whether to trade for the player or not. __________________ Shootin' at the walls of heartache, BANG BANG, I am THE WARRIOR! "It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am"- Ali Wladimir Klitschko will DESTROY you.

03-27-2017, 01:01 PM	#235
Chico Guilbault All Star Starter Join Date: May 2015 Location: Harlingen, NJ Posts: 1,063	Did I see that a patch was coming out today or was it for sometime this week? __________________ BeechumCounty.com

03-26-2017, 03:38 AM	#222
injury log Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Toronto Posts: 9,162	It's possible there are certain AI preferences that are responsible for some of those behaviours. If you feel like digging around your game a bit, it might be possible to find an 'explanation' for what you're seeing. With the bunting, it might be that the AI team's manager has sabermetric tendencies, and/or a 'very low' bunting frequency preference in his Strategy, and that is the reason the game is deciding to swing away, even with a pitcher. Now, whether the Manager should ever hate bunting so much he doesn't let even his pitchers do it is a separate question, but it would at least be interesting to know if it was a Manager preference that is responsible, or if it's a ubiquitous AI behaviour independent of Manager strategies. It might also be true that Manager preferences account for some unusual lineup choices. If a Manager really loves speed, that might explain why CarGo sits and other slightly faster guys play ahead of him. But if that's the explanation, then that Manager preference is having far too drastic an effect. If that's not the explanation, I'm at a bit of a loss to guess why Patterson would play over CarGo. I just checked my current game, and CarGo got a peculiarly low number of GS in the 2017 season I just finished (with a 1.032 OPS, not a guy you want sitting very often!). He did have several injuries, but even when healthy he was used as a PH a lot. I've asked on beta that AI evaluation of relievers be looked at further. That's a longstanding issue, present in every version of the game I've played - the AI seems to undervalue certain good relievers (and especially relief prospects). I haven't yet seen a guy as good as Thornburg on waivers, but I have seen AI teams fail to protect pretty decent RP prospects from expansion drafts or rule 5 drafts, and AI teams are willing to part with those guys too cheaply in trade - not 5-star guys, but more guys in the 3 to 4 star potential range. There's no preference I can think of that would lead an AI team to waive Thornburg (and keep League), so I'd have to guess that's a symptom of a general AI problem around RP evaluation. Luckily that kind of thing doesn't seem to happen very often.

03-26-2017, 02:33 PM	#225
Red08 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 74	I'm still seeing a ton of veteran for veteran trades and as a rebuilding team I've set my team preference for young players but the only trade offers i get are minor leaguer for minor leaguer

03-26-2017, 02:49 PM	#226
chriskelly All Star Reserve Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 738	thinking thru your Col issue, if Car-Go isn't playing because the manager prefers speed, he should logically be on the trading block; there's no reason to keep a player with that level of skill and that salary on the bench.

03-26-2017, 03:40 PM	#227
drhay53 Major Leagues Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 355	Would be nice to get a message when a player is fully healed from an "unknown" recovery time injury. Playing with high injuries it can be hard to keep track of everything.

03-26-2017, 04:08 PM	#228
injury log Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Toronto Posts: 9,162	It might be that speed preference that causes the issue, or that might just be coincidence - the best way to check would be to go in to Commissioner Mode, edit the Manager so he doesn't care much for speed, then ask the Manager for his new Depth Charts. If it turns out that preference is the issue, I'll log it on beta.

03-26-2017, 04:37 PM	#229
zappa1 All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,874	I've been playing out my games and I am impressed with the 3D improvement. Still some work to do on it. I noticed that playing with the OOTP ballparks from the game is where the choppiness occurs. When I use a park made by Silvam or Adion or others, the game play is very smooth. Of course, those parks don't have animated crowds moving about. hmmmmmm, I wonder if there is something to that? Anyway, the 3D has improved to where when a ball is hit, you just don't know if the fielder is gonna make the play or not. Same with throws and slides into bases. You just don't know now. That makes it very exciting to watch a play and think it's gonna be one way but it turns out the opposite way. I find myself yelling at the screen, no, no, he's safe. He beat the play. Ah, man. Or a drive to the gap and I'm like, ohhhhh, he caught it. I'm like, no way. Awesome. And they are gonna improve on this even more. Great. This version is way the best one, yet.

03-26-2017, 04:44 PM	#230
wolverinebball11 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 39	It may actually have something to do with the WBC. At the very beginning of the season, before the WBC, CarGo is listed in the lineup batting 4th and playing RF. After I sim through the WBC to Opening Day, CarGo is taken out of the starting lineup. Even after changing Black's preferences to be neutral toward speed or power, CarGo is still left out of the lineup. In fact, even if I change his preference to be entirely the other way, with a strong preference of power over speed, he still doesn't put CarGo into the lineup.

03-26-2017, 05:19 PM	#231
injury log Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Toronto Posts: 9,162	Thanks for checking the speed/power preference. I'm now not sure what the issue is - in my game, I didn't include the WBC, but I seem to be having the same issue you're having. I'll raise it on beta.

03-26-2017, 08:21 PM	#232
RickD Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 28	First time buyer and so far I am loving it. I just dipped in one game as a manager and one as a GM just to get the feel. In manager mode as a Yankee I was shocked the Brian Cashman traded away Aaron Judge.... I anticipate years of enjoyment with this game.

03-27-2017, 10:21 AM	#234
Orioles1966 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 2,869	I don't know if this has been mentioned but many of my Fictional Leagues 40 man rosters have more than ten catchers while other 40 man rosters only have 2 catchers.

03-27-2017, 01:29 PM	#238
Alessandro Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 6,387	I posted a review of the game. http://www.sportsgamersonline.com/ou...all-18-review/ Have a good read!

03-27-2017, 04:54 PM	#240
AESP_pres Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Province of Quebec Posts: 3,700 Blog Entries: 25	I didn't want to wait this year like I did with 15, 16 and 17 so it's already downloading on my computer from Steam... In fact, I took my decision 10 minutes ago. Really want to see the difference with the Negro League added to the historical mode I sure got a lot of fun with this game since I purchased OOTP 2007 ten years ago