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Old 05-07-2018, 10:34 PM   #1
actionjackson
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My new Historical Random Debut (Starting in 1901 with 1984 stats output and strategy settings)

As promised (possibly here and elsewhere), here's my new random debut. I'll start with the inaugural draft, which was a labour of love (and some cursing) as I came up with my own draft values for each of the 720 players involved (704 from the default MLB database, and 16 from the Spritze HS DB for OOTP18) based on RL stats and on the player's age and how much value they have left in their RL career after that age. The 16 Spritze guys were judged against all 720 according to the Spritze DB draft values, and ranked that way, and the other rankings were done around them. The draft was done in a best on the draft board regardless of position nature, which meant I had to make myself god of my league and move players around in situations where teams didn't draft any/enough players at a position.

Because of the age/how much value is left in a player's career thing, these may appear out of order to you, but for me they are not. For example with Kaline before A-Rod, Kaline at age 18 has his whole career in front of him, while A-Rod at 25 has already had several magnificent seasons. Remember too, that a modern player's career is incomplete at this moment. The player development system will hit him earlier, and he may become great, stay the same, or fizzle. I saw Clayton Kershaw go from 3 consecutive Walter Johnson Awards (or Cy Young Awards if you prefer) to the bullpen to the free agent pile to out of the game in a very short span. The player development system can be a cruel mistress, and that has to be kept in mind as well when doing these things.

If you'll indulge me, I'll post the first five rounds (it was 45 rounds long, so this is a little over ten percent of the players in my game). I'm using Entire Career for position ratings, so I'll also post all the player's positions as well as the age he will be on July 1st of the 1901 season (i.e. what his age season will be). Anyway, enough of the pre-amble.

Round 1:

1. New York Giants: Honus Wagner, SS/RF, 26
2. Cleveland Blues: Al Kaline, CF/RF, 18
3. Chicago Orphans: Alex Rodriguez, 3B/SS, 25
4. Cincinnati Reds: Nolan Ryan, RHP, 22
5. Philadelphia Athletics: Ed Delahanty, 1B/LF/CF/RF, 20
6. Detroit Tigers: Craig Biggio, C/2B/CF, 24
7. Brooklyn Superbas: Eddie Cicotte, RHP, 21
8. Baltimore Orioles: Minnie Minoso, LF/CF, 23
9. St. Louis Cardinals: Bucky Walters, RHP, 26
10. Boston Americans: Vern Stephens, 3B/SS, 20
11. Pittsburgh Pirates: Johnny Damon, LF/CF/RF, 21
12. Washington Senators: Joe Tinker, SS, 24
13. Milwaukee Brewers: Cupid Childs, 2B, 20
14. Philadelphia Phillies: Dale Murphy, 1B/CF/RF, 20
15. Boston Beaneaters: Eppa Rixey, LHP, 27
16. Chicago White Sox: Jon Lester, LHP, 23

Round 2:

1. Chicago White Sox: Wes Ferrell, RHP, 24
2. Boston Beaneaters: Mark Gubicza, RHP, 22
3. Philadelphia Phillies: Bill Madlock, 2B/3B, 22
4. Milwaukee Brewers: Sam Crawford, CF/RF, 29
5. Washington Senators: David Wells, LHP, 34
6. Pittsburgh Pirates: Mark Langston, LHP, 28
7. Boston Americans: Jim Bottomley, 1B, 23
8. St. Louis Cardinals: Mike Hampton, LHP, 21
9. Baltimore Orioles: Cliff P Lee, LHP, 31
10. Brooklyn Superbas: Madison Bumgarner, LHP, 22
11. Detroit Tigers: Lefty O'Doul, LF, 29
12. Philadelphia Athletics: Steve Garvey, 1B/3B, 24
13. Cincinnati Reds: Mike Hargrove, 1B/LF, 24
14. Chicago Orphans: Will White, RHP, 27
15. Cleveland Blues: Max Carey, LF/CF, 29
16. New York Giants: George Wright, 2B/SS, 24

Round 3:

1. New York Giants: Kid Elberfeld, 3B/SS, 27
2. Cleveland Blues: Dustin Pedroia, 2B, 28
3. Chicago Orphans: Rollie Fingers, RHP, 24
4. Cincinnati Reds: Boog Powell, 1B/LF, 25
5. Philadelphia Athletics: Whitey Kurowski, 3B, 25
6. Detroit Tigers: Alex Fernandez, RHP, 24
7. Brooklyn Superbas: Casey Blake, 1B/3B/RF, 25
8. Baltimore Orioles: Jim Barr, RHP, 25
9. St. Louis Cardinals: George Davis, 3B/SS/CF/RF, 34
10. Boston Americans: Marquis Grissom, CF, 24
11. Pittsburgh Pirates: Chief Zimmer, C, 26
12. Washington Senators: Raul Mondesi, CF/RF, 25
13. Milwaukee Brewers: Preacher Roe, LHP, 32
14. Philadelphia Phillies: Al Orth, RHP, 30
15. Boston Beaneaters: Mike Donlin, LF/CF/RF, 27
16. Chicago White Sox: John Clapp, C/LF, 23

Round 4:

1. Chicago White Sox: Bob Caruthers, RHP, 25
2. Boston Beaneaters: Rick Monday, CF/RF, 25
3. Philadelphia Phillies: Tom York, LF/RF, 24
4. Milwaukee Brewers: Roy White, LF, 30
5. Washington Senators: Hooks Dauss, RHP, 30
6. Pittsburgh Pirates: Rudy May, LHP, 28
7. Boston Americans: Tom Burgmeier, LHP, 27
8. St. Louis Cardinals: Tom Brewer, RHP, 24
9. Baltimore Orioles: Scott T Baker, RHP, 26
10. Brooklyn Superbas: Jamey Carroll, 2B/3B/SS, 28
11. Detroit Tigers: Jerry Denny, 3B, 25
12. Philadelphia Athletics: Muddy Ruel, C, 26
13. Cincinnati Reds: Joe Collins, 1B/RF, 26
14. Chicago Orphans: Ellis Kinder, RHP, 37
15. Cleveland Blues: Tom Gordon, RHP, 31
16. New York Giants: Darren Oliver, LHP, 34

Round 5:

1. New York Giants: Mark Melancon, RHP, 25
2. Cleveland Blues: Jim Clancy, RHP, 25
3. Chicago Orphans: Tim Leary, RHP, 25
4. Cincinnati Reds: Tomo Ohka, RHP, 23
5. Philadelphia Athletics: Mark Whiten, LF/CF/RF, 26
6. Detroit Tigers: Beals Becker, LF/CF/RF, 23
7. Brooklyn Superbas: Jaime Garcia, LHP, 24
8. Baltimore Orioles: Lou Bierbauer, 2B, 23
9. St. Louis Cardinals: Chris Speier, SS, 26
10. Boston Americans: Tommy Byrne, LHP, 24
11. Pittsburgh Pirates: Eric Plunk, RHP, 29
12. Washington Senators: Wayne Causey, 2B/3B/SS, 23
13. Milwaukee Brewers: Robinson Chirinos, C, 29
14. Philadelphia Phillies: Jean Segura, 2B/SS, 24
15. Boston Beaneaters: Don Hurst, 1B, 23
16. Chicago White Sox: Heinie Peitz, C, 29

That's a good start for now. I'll try to keep updating this as I go. Thanks for checking it out.

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Old 05-08-2018, 09:45 AM   #2
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I'll take the Senators or the Brewers please.

A lot of work, but satisfying. What team are you thinking of managing?

Oh, and...Al Kaline AFTER Honus Wagner? Where is David Watts, he must have something to say about this (Kaline hit .290 with 20 homers in 1949 in my RD league that I am late in posting news about).
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Old 05-08-2018, 10:57 AM   #3
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Have at it, I will be following along with a great deal of interest. Hopefully I can glean some ideas and avoid any pitfalls you mention in this dynasty.
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Old 05-08-2018, 11:55 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by italyprof View Post
I'll take the Senators or the Brewers please.

A lot of work, but satisfying. What team are you thinking of managing?

Oh, and...Al Kaline AFTER Honus Wagner? Where is David Watts, he must have something to say about this (Kaline hit .290 with 20 homers in 1949 in my RD league that I am late in posting news about).
You're not kidding about the Brewers. One of the pitfalls of doing the draft this way is that there are some players who are rated faaar higher than they should be (19th century pitchers are by and large beasts, but I'll take 'em in order to get 19th century position players), and the Brewers snagged two of them in the late rounds. They were down because their RL numbers were kind of meh, but OOTP doesn't seem to care. The two that they snagged were both 5-star left handed SP! Toad Ramsey (14th rounder) and Phil Knell (41st rounder). Along with lefty Preacher Roe in the 3rd round, it makes their rotation formidably beastly. And all of them are are still arb eligible (Ramsey is 23, Knell is 28, and Roe is 32), so they could put together a bit of a magic run to start things off. St. Louis Browns fans (where the team will be re-locating in 1902) could have a lot to cheer for in the coming years, as weird as that sounds given the history of the real life Browns.

Remember italyprof, as weird as it sounds I never take over a team. I'm the Commissioner/God/Official Historian/Roving (or is that Raving?) Fan of my league. I watched the Chicago White Sox take down the Brewers and Ramsey on Opening Day 8-6. Since then, the Brewers have outscored their opponents 34-13 in going 5-1. Yeah, they look kind of good. They were predicted to win 105 games for cryin' out loud. Sheesh! What have I done?

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Old 05-08-2018, 01:50 PM   #5
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Have you taken the random out of Random Debut?
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Old 05-08-2018, 03:13 PM   #6
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Have you taken the random out of Random Debut?
What do you mean? I dispersed the players in order of how good they were statistically IRL from the age they came in. Milwaukee got lucky and came away with two absolute studs. Poop happens.
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Old 05-08-2018, 03:23 PM   #7
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Just kidding I was trying to make a joke, obviously poorly. There is no benefit to stacking a team. On another note I am still have free agents appear from nowhere in my league about a dozen at the end of every regular season. The ones that appear always debut in real life the next year. For example I just finished 1916 regular season and about 12 guys whose rookie MLB year was 1917 come into the FA pool day after 1916 season ends.
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Old 05-08-2018, 03:34 PM   #8
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Just kidding I was trying to make a joke, obviously poorly. There is no benefit to stacking a team. On another note I am still have free agents appear from nowhere in my league about a dozen at the end of every regular season. The ones that appear always debut in real life the next year. For example I just finished 1916 regular season and about 12 guys whose rookie MLB year was 1917 come into the FA pool day after 1916 season ends.
Oh, you don't have to make a poor joke to get it over my head. Honestly, I wasn't trying to stack the Brewers. I didn't even look at how teams drafts were progressing, so I had no idea how beastly they were getting.

About those free agents, I have no earthly clue how or why that is happening to you. I'll have to see if it happens to me, and if it doesn't, we'll have to compare settings and see what went wrong. I remain convinced that somewhere, somehow you have a setting that is amiss, and hopefully we'll be able to track it down.
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Old 05-08-2018, 06:09 PM   #9
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I'll take the Senators or the Brewers please.

A lot of work, but satisfying. What team are you thinking of managing?

Oh, and...Al Kaline AFTER Honus Wagner? Where is David Watts, he must have something to say about this (Kaline hit .290 with 20 homers in 1949 in my RD league that I am late in posting news about).
Through 25 games, the Brewers are 15-10, 2 games back of Baltimore, while the Senators are 12-13, 5 games out. Apparently, they don't play the games on paper. Then again...It is early. Not even out of April yet.
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Old 05-10-2018, 11:48 AM   #10
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1901 All-Stars:

AL:

Scott T Baker (BLA), SP
Wes Ferrell (CWS), SP
Harry Harper (BLA), SP
Phil Knell (MLA), SP
Cliff P Lee (BLA), SP
Jon Lester (CWS), SP
Ray Sadecki (CWS), SP
Chuck Cary (PHA), RP
Mauro Gozzo (BOS), RP
Kiko Calero (WS1), CL
Tom Gordon (CLE), CL
Justin Miller (CWS), CL
Robinson Chirinos (MLA), C
John Clapp (CWS), C
Steve Garvey (PHA), 1B
Tony Perez (BLA), 1B
Cupid Childs (MLA), 2B
Kid Elberfeld (CWS), SS
Jerry Hairston Jr. (MLA), SS
Vern Stephens (BOS), SS
Trevor Story (DET), SS
Beals Becker (DET), LF
Minnie Minoso (BLA), LF
Roy White (MLA), LF
Max Carey (CLE), CF
Marquis Grissom (BOS), CF
Sam Crawford (MLA), RF
Emmett Seery (WS1), RF

NL:

Madison Bumgarner (BRO), SP
Denny Driscoll (CIN), SP
Jaime Garcia (BRO), SP
Rudy May (PIT), SP
Bill McGee (CIN), SP
Eppa Rixey (BSN), SP
Nolan Ryan (CIN), SP
Irv Young (BRO), SP
Damaso Marte (BSN), RP
Mark Melancon (NY1), RP
Kenley Jansen (PHI), CL
Bobby M Mitchell (CHC), CL
Keith Moreland (STL), C
Sy Sutcliffe (CHC), C
Mike Hargrove (CIN), 1B
Don Hurst (BSN), 1B
Carlos Lee (STL), 1B
Julio Franco (BSN), 2B
Bill Madlock (PHI), 3B
Alex Rodriguez (CHC), SS
Honus Wagner (NY1), SS
Mike Donlin (BSN), LF
Boog Powell (CIN), LF
Dick Sisler (BRO), LF
Tom York (PHI), LF
Ian Happ (NY1), CF
Rick Monday (BSN), CF
Jerry Morales (BSN), RF

The National League destroyed the American League 12-4 in the 1901 Midsummer Classic. Mike Donlin was the star of the game despite not getting into the game until the 5th inning. Donlin had an RBI single in the bottom of the 6th off Chuck Cary, and a first pitch 2-run HR off Mauro Gozzo in the bottom of the 8th. Marquis Grissom went 2 for 2 with a HR and 2 RBI for the losing side after entering the game in the sixth inning. Dick Sisler went 1 for 1 with a BB and a two-run single off Jon Lester who was absolutely shelled, going 0.1 IP, allowing 4 H, 5 R, 4 ER and striking out one for the only out he recorded. He is just 23 though, and something tells me he has a few more All-Star games to redeem himself.

What's really striking about this game is the ridiculous number of quality southpaws currently in my league. The AL had six on their roster (Harper, Knell, Lee, Lester, Sadecki, and Cary), while the NL had eight (Bumgarner, Driscoll, Garcia, May, Rixey, Young, Marte, and Mitchell)!!! There are also some that didn't make the All-Star game, as David Wells, Mark Langston, Mike Hampton, Preacher Roe, Tom Burgmeier, Darren Oliver, and Tommy Byrne were taken in the first five rounds as well.

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Old 05-10-2018, 01:01 PM   #11
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Have a new idea for my LTMs for my minor leagues. I am going to find a set that produces what I consider acceptable results and then leave those settings. I will keep resetting MLB with 1976 the day prior to the regular season but freeze the minor leagues. Thoughts?

Now if I figure why the FA appear the day after the regular season ends all will be right in my world.
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Old 05-10-2018, 01:31 PM   #12
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Have a new idea for my LTMs for my minor leagues. I am going to find a set that produces what I consider acceptable results and then leave those settings. I will keep resetting MLB with 1976 the day prior to the regular season but freeze the minor leagues. Thoughts?

Now if I figure why the FA appear the day after the regular season ends all will be right in my world.
I still think that's happening because you use minor leagues. I know that's an absolute bummer, but I can't think of anything else to explain it. I will know this for sure when I complete my season, and reach the first day of the offseason.

EDIT: Not sure how freezing the minor league LTMs will go, but it's got to be better than what's currently happening.

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Old 05-11-2018, 12:12 PM   #13
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Ok I am going to mess with the LTMs for a few more seasons to see if I can figure that part out and get realistic, in my mind, stats.

Just had another idea, you can substitute any term you want for idea. Is it possible, if I am disciplined enough, to transfer the magically appearing FA after the regular season into the draft pool? This would put in the draft the year they actually debuted in real life. Not ideal for random debut but a little more realistic. This is unless I can have a eureka moment and figure out how to stop the magical FA appearance; I enjoy having the independent AAA leagues too much to remove them from my league.

Once I get the LTMs right it is off with the training wheels.

Any and all advice is greatly appreciated.....

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Old 05-11-2018, 03:26 PM   #14
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Ok I am going to mess with the LTMs for a few more seasons to see if I can figure that part out and get realistic, in my mind, stats.

Just had another idea, you can substitute any term you want for idea. Is it possible, if I am disciplined enough, to transfer the magically appearing FA after the regular season into the draft pool? This would put in the draft the year they actually debuted in real life. Not ideal for random debut but a little more realistic. This is unless I can have a eureka moment and figure out how to stop the magical FA appearance; I enjoy having the independent AAA leagues too much to remove them from my league.

Once I get the LTMs right it is off with the training wheels.

Any and all advice is greatly appreciated.....
Regarding your idea, hmmm...I don't have any free agents to test it out on in my game. I did just test it on players that play on one of my teams, but no dice. Test it out by right-clicking on any of those free agents that don't belong and see what you get. Worth a shot anyway.

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Old 05-11-2018, 03:41 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by JaBurns View Post
Ok I am going to mess with the LTMs for a few more seasons to see if I can figure that part out and get realistic, in my mind, stats.

Just had another idea, you can substitute any term you want for idea. Is it possible, if I am disciplined enough, to transfer the magically appearing FA after the regular season into the draft pool? This would put in the draft the year they actually debuted in real life. Not ideal for random debut but a little more realistic. This is unless I can have a eureka moment and figure out how to stop the magical FA appearance; I enjoy having the independent AAA leagues too much to remove them from my league.

Once I get the LTMs right it is off with the training wheels.

Any and all advice is greatly appreciated.....
How did you create independent minor leagues?
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Old 05-11-2018, 05:39 PM   #16
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I used Tiger Fans example from the top of this section. You just add a league and make all the teams unaffiliated, there is a setting to allow players to be purchased by major league teams. I really like this way, it allows more teams and more players playing but the FA thing is a bit of a PITA.
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Old 05-11-2018, 07:45 PM   #17
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I used Tiger Fans example from the top of this section. You just add a league and make all the teams unaffiliated, there is a setting to allow players to be purchased by major league teams. I really like this way, it allows more teams and more players playing but the FA thing is a bit of a PITA.
So you are adding this league after the random debut wizard creates your league? By this I mean, it's not a choice you make when using the Wizard?
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Old 05-12-2018, 06:39 AM   #18
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I add my unaffiliated AAA leagues after the inaugural draft when I see how many free agents there are sitting around, then I add leagues of usually 8 teams when the FA pool is about 300. I keep reserve rosters at 15 and I can control the FA pool by expanding or contracting the number of players in the draft with the MLB draft staying at 5 rounds. That is having players available for 8, 10, 12 rounds will allow to add leagues quickly if you want to in your league.

Right now I have 16 team Major Leagues, 8 team Eastern League, 10 team Central League, 10 team Western League. This is enough teams for me, draft is at 5 rounds with players for 5.

Draft is only for Major Leagues all AAA teams get their players from the free agent pool.

Hope this helps.
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Old 05-12-2018, 07:47 AM   #19
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I add my unaffiliated AAA leagues after the inaugural draft when I see how many free agents there are sitting around, then I add leagues of usually 8 teams when the FA pool is about 300. I keep reserve rosters at 15 and I can control the FA pool by expanding or contracting the number of players in the draft with the MLB draft staying at 5 rounds. That is having players available for 8, 10, 12 rounds will allow to add leagues quickly if you want to in your league.

Right now I have 16 team Major Leagues, 8 team Eastern League, 10 team Central League, 10 team Western League. This is enough teams for me, draft is at 5 rounds with players for 5.

Draft is only for Major Leagues all AAA teams get their players from the free agent pool.

Hope this helps.

I tried a different method last night and as far as I could tell I wasn't getting any current season player imports like you're describing.

What I did was create my league using the historical wizard. While in the wizard, I selected the option to create a AAA level of minors. I then finished my wizard choices and created my league. Once the league was created, I simply unaffiliated the AAA league I created. Of course, this league was set up to mirror the MLB, but it would be easy to delete teams to get down to 8 or whatever you desire. I simmed one season and one offseason and as far as I could tell only had random players.

This may be a method you can test
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Old 05-12-2018, 09:28 AM   #20
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Thanks Mr. Watts I hope that works when I start my big boy league.

Just finishing 1917 in my test league. Found out that extra free agents appear on October 1st. Had ~ 60 appear on 1 Oct 17. I tried selecting them all and moving them to the draft pool but I cannot figure out how to do it....

Learn something new every day.
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