Is Historical Play Not That Popular?

SeanBerry · 02-26-2019, 10:11 AM

This is the thread where I complain about my favorite game. I've become THAT guy.

OOTP is the best. We all know this and I know the developers are brilliant. But with the recent releases, maybe more (almost all?) people play and enjoy the game far differently than I do?

I enjoy Perfect Team and I also like playing the most recent season. I can see why having live updates would be really cool for people who play this way.

But my favorite way to play OOTP is historical. I love going back and taking over teams and seeing the old uniforms and trying to "fix" or chnage history and see how that has a ripple effect and my absolute favorite element of that is taking over an expansion team. And OOTP is really lousy at that.

From reading these forums, it seems like other people do too? To me, it's so OOTP-centric to want to start a team from scratch and build them up to be a World Series contender. Now you have to sim a season first and then the budgets are clunky and not really accurate. You can't just start as the 1962 Mets. You have to sim 1961 first which is bizarre and then you get stuck with a bunch of coaches you wouldn't want when the team is finally created.

I am far from a computer programmer but it seems like it wouldn't be that hard to have a Historical Expansion option. Even a much less advanced game like Baseball Mogul has this.

Look, I love OOTP and totally get I am complaining about something I get great value in. I was just a little bummed to see another edition come and go with no improvements on that front.

Also, 3D historical stadiums would be awesome too.

Thanks for hearing me whine.

Orcin · 02-26-2019, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanBerry

To me, it's so OOTP-centric to want to start a team from scratch and build them up to be a World Series contender. Now you have to sim a season first and then the budgets are clunky and not really accurate. You can't just start as the 1962 Mets. You have to sim 1961 first which is bizarre and then you get stuck with a bunch of coaches you wouldn't want when the team is finally created.

You can start the 1962 historical season, and you will have the 1962 Mets.

If you mean start the 1962 season and do the expansion draft yourself, then you would have the same pool of players and your only difference would be trading some players between your Mets and the Colt 45s. The game does not offer that option, but I suppose you could use commissioner mode to move some players from one team to the other.

If you want anyone available to the 1962 Mets, you can start a 1962 season with an inaugural draft.

None of these options require you to sim 1961 first.

SeanBerry · 02-26-2019, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orcin

If you mean start the 1962 season and do the expansion draft yourself, then you would have the same pool of players and your only difference would be trading some players between your Mets and the Colt 45s. The game does not offer that option, but I suppose you could use commissioner mode to move some players from one team to the other.

If you want anyone available to the 1962 Mets, you can start a 1962 season with an inaugural draft.

None of these options require you to sim 1961 first.

I would have the same pool of players? I don't understand what you are saying.

Why should I have to use commissioner mode to move guys around. What I'm asking for is to start an expansion team from scratch (so yes, do the expansion draft) and to do that, you do need to sim the 1961 season.

I don't want to do an inaugural draft. That is not really providing the accurate historical experience.

I can see you are trying to help here but I'm guessing you haven't played as an historical expansion team before?

Neezer · 02-26-2019, 11:00 AM

My fav is still OOTP in the following order:

Historical replays, ie taking control of one team and playing it forward for a set amount of years

Replaying a career for one specific player. I like to take guys who are borderline HOFrs and see if I can get them there.

Playing the new season forward to predict the current season

I also play most of these games as manager and now always in 3D mode!

I enjoy PT, but I feel limited by not being able to manage the games directly and cant ever seem to tweak the AI so the team performs as I would manage live.

Really looking forward to OOTP20 and hoping the 3D mode is even better.

Orcin · 02-26-2019, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanBerry

I would have the same pool of players? I don't understand what you are saying.

Why should I have to use commissioner mode to move guys around. What I'm asking for is to start an expansion team from scratch (so yes, do the expansion draft) and to do that, you do need to sim the 1961 season.

I don't want to do an inaugural draft. That is not really providing the accurate historical experience.

I can see you are trying to help here but I'm guessing you haven't played as an historical expansion team before?

LOL, yes I have. By same pool of players, I mean the real pool of players that was available to the expansion 1962 Mets to draft their roster. Using anything else would not be an "accurate historical experience". So if you drafted the initial roster of the 1962 Mets from the same pool of players, the only difference would be players that you took instead of the Colt 45s.

SeanBerry · 02-26-2019, 11:29 AM

I'm really not understanding you or maybe I'm not being clear.

To only pick from the playerson the Colt 45's and Mets is not a true expansion draft experience because it doesn't factor in the players they didn't pick that were available.

I can't start 1962 and do an expansion draft on the spot. If I do, the Mets and Colt 45's are already there. That's why I have to start in 1961 and sim that season. This is pretty common among those us of that love historical expansion. I actually found out about that trick in this forum. But it's still a lousy solution because you end up with coaches you don't want already hired and the 1961 sim is obviously not exactly accurate. I'ts not the same universe.

Not only that but especially in 1993 and 1998, the team budgets are insanely low.

I'm a little confused why you are defending this. The expansion element of the game is not very good. Maybe it's not worthwhile to fix because very few of us play it. That, I don't know.

Cactusguy21 · 02-26-2019, 11:43 AM

I like playing modern expansion drafts, but yeah historical in general as a mode is a mess.

TwinsGuy11 · 02-26-2019, 11:47 AM

Personally, the inaccurate contracts kills it for me.

Orcin · 02-26-2019, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanBerry

I'm really not understanding you or maybe I'm not being clear.

To only pick from the playerson the Colt 45's and Mets is not a true expansion draft experience because it doesn't factor in the players they didn't pick that were available.

There were 120 players available and 90 were drafted. If you think that the final 30 players contained someone that would have changed history, who am I to argue with that.

SeanBerry · 02-26-2019, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orcin

There were 120 players available and 90 were drafted. If you think that the final 30 players contained someone that would have changed history, who am I to argue with that.

You're also missing the strategy of the order of how the players are picked and the fun of the details...y'know the reason most of us love OOTP so much.

I read the boards a lot and I see you comment a ton but I don't understand your point here. Are you saying you think the current historical expansion set-up is good? I am missing your point of view on this. I have to imagine even the developers would admit this element of the game could use work. Maybe it's not worthwhile to fix because so few users care but to stick up for this like you have been is bizarre.

David Watts · 02-26-2019, 12:52 PM

Since it was mentioned above, how does Baseball Mogul's historical expansion feature work?

AirmenSmith · 02-26-2019, 02:40 PM

I would definitely say you should enable the option share info with OOTP. If everyone enabled this, then OOTP would be able to tell where most of the player base focuses on.

Just from reading the forums, I do tend to lean toward historical play not being as popular as other options. I actually have never understood the draw of historical play. Seems like you can easily take advantage of the game since you know what prospects are good. 1 year replays though are fun.

scott1964 · 02-26-2019, 04:46 PM

I enjoy going from 1871 to whenever. And see how the greats could have been or not. As well as the obscure ones that could have made it or not.

Ty Cobb · 02-26-2019, 04:52 PM

Variation on a theme ( I hear the strangled cries now..."that sumb***h is gonna suggest somethin' crazy as bat sh**"): The option to, in Challenge Mode, start in some particular season as reality has the game, and ONE TIME ONLY AND ONLY FROM THE START auto-sim say 10-15 years, then have an expansion draft offered where you MUST be an expansion team. There could be a separate achievement for taking the startup from dead to the Series in say...4 years. We could call it, "Beat the Marlins".

Just thinking out loud...

David Watts · 02-26-2019, 04:58 PM

I love random debut which is a cousin of historical. Love it because I can use real players, but create fictional teams and use my desired league setups. Plus random debut allows me to start with a clean slate, no history.

Really hoping someday we can zero out history again when playing non random debut historical. All it would take is the ability to select whether or not we want players that miss a season to reappear. If they don't reappear, we could zero out history without a problem.

LegalEagle80 · 02-26-2019, 05:02 PM

I've never played anything except for modern MLB (whatever year it is in real life), but reading this makes me want to try a historical run now.

Reed · 02-26-2019, 05:30 PM

David, what do you mean you say, “hoping we can zero out history when playing non random debut historical”? That is how I play.
If I want to start a league in 1901 for example, I start in 1895 (or earlier), play to spring of 1901, delete career records, service time and everything (except injuries), release all players for a draft, set up my league/teams/schedule. Run my draft (players injured in 1901 will be available for draft). Players/teams have zero history. Players that are injured will miss the season (if you have that option selected) and when they come off the injured list in following year(s), they will start with zero career stats.

Ty Cobb · 02-26-2019, 05:31 PM

I usually go 7-10 years, but use the same principle.

David Watts · 02-26-2019, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reed

David, what do you mean you say, “hoping we can zero out history when playing non random debut historical”? That is how I play.
If I want to start a league in 1901 for example, I start in 1895 (or earlier), play to spring of 1901, delete career records, service time and everything (except injuries), release all players for a draft, set up my league/teams/schedule. Run my draft (players injured in 1901 will be available for draft). Players/teams have zero history. Players that are injured will miss the season (if you have that option selected) and when they come off the injured list in following year(s), they will start with zero career stats.

I'm not a huge fan of deadball, so starting in 1895 to get to 1947 is a lot of work. Even starting 1919 takes time. Prior to 17 we could start whenever and erase all history. Sure it was a bug that allowed this, but it was a super califragic bug that if I had my wish would still exist.

Not a huge deal though, as I can play random debut and get what I'm seeking. In fact, I can get players from all periods of baseball and have them play baseball from the periods I enjoy.

Shoeless' Socks · 02-26-2019, 09:43 PM

My sense as of today... is that there is a silent majority of players that play solo play with their favorite team and now... Perfect Team.

Those of us that enjoy Historical Play and Online Leagues are currently in my estimation in the vast but very vocal minority...

02-26-2019, 10:11 AM	#1
SeanBerry Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 48	Is Historical Play Not That Popular? This is the thread where I complain about my favorite game. I've become THAT guy. OOTP is the best. We all know this and I know the developers are brilliant. But with the recent releases, maybe more (almost all?) people play and enjoy the game far differently than I do? I enjoy Perfect Team and I also like playing the most recent season. I can see why having live updates would be really cool for people who play this way. But my favorite way to play OOTP is historical. I love going back and taking over teams and seeing the old uniforms and trying to "fix" or chnage history and see how that has a ripple effect and my absolute favorite element of that is taking over an expansion team. And OOTP is really lousy at that. From reading these forums, it seems like other people do too? To me, it's so OOTP-centric to want to start a team from scratch and build them up to be a World Series contender. Now you have to sim a season first and then the budgets are clunky and not really accurate. You can't just start as the 1962 Mets. You have to sim 1961 first which is bizarre and then you get stuck with a bunch of coaches you wouldn't want when the team is finally created. I am far from a computer programmer but it seems like it wouldn't be that hard to have a Historical Expansion option. Even a much less advanced game like Baseball Mogul has this. Look, I love OOTP and totally get I am complaining about something I get great value in. I was just a little bummed to see another edition come and go with no improvements on that front. Also, 3D historical stadiums would be awesome too. Thanks for hearing me whine.

02-26-2019, 02:40 PM	#12
AirmenSmith Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Corpus Christi TX Posts: 2,090	I would definitely say you should enable the option share info with OOTP. If everyone enabled this, then OOTP would be able to tell where most of the player base focuses on. Just from reading the forums, I do tend to lean toward historical play not being as popular as other options. I actually have never understood the draw of historical play. Seems like you can easily take advantage of the game since you know what prospects are good. 1 year replays though are fun. __________________ Come join me on my Twitch Channel for gaming at its excellence Twitch Link

02-26-2019, 04:46 PM	#13
scott1964 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Denver Posts: 5,561 Blog Entries: 19	I enjoy going from 1871 to whenever. And see how the greats could have been or not. As well as the obscure ones that could have made it or not. __________________ This just feels more like waiting in line at the Department of Motor Vehicles. PETA.....People Eating Tasty Animals.

02-26-2019, 04:52 PM	#14
Ty Cobb Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Grayling, MI Posts: 3,950 Blog Entries: 66	Variation on a theme ( I hear the strangled cries now..."that sumb*h is gonna suggest somethin' crazy as bat sh"): The option to, in Challenge Mode, start in some particular season as reality has the game, and ONE TIME ONLY AND ONLY FROM THE START auto-sim say 10-15 years, then have an expansion draft offered where you MUST be an expansion team. There could be a separate achievement for taking the startup from dead to the Series in say...4 years. We could call it, "Beat the Marlins". Just thinking out loud... __________________ “What’s the most you ever lost on a coin toss?” “Everyone is an atheist until Templars begin marching in the rain.” Absinthe makes the heart grow fonder. It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance.—Thomas Sowell "Alinsky works for me now."

02-26-2019, 05:31 PM	#18
Ty Cobb Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Grayling, MI Posts: 3,950 Blog Entries: 66	I usually go 7-10 years, but use the same principle. __________________ “What’s the most you ever lost on a coin toss?” “Everyone is an atheist until Templars begin marching in the rain.” Absinthe makes the heart grow fonder. It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance.—Thomas Sowell "Alinsky works for me now."

02-26-2019, 11:00 AM	#4
Neezer Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2019 Posts: 115	My fav is still OOTP in the following order: Historical replays, ie taking control of one team and playing it forward for a set amount of years Replaying a career for one specific player. I like to take guys who are borderline HOFrs and see if I can get them there. Playing the new season forward to predict the current season I also play most of these games as manager and now always in 3D mode! I enjoy PT, but I feel limited by not being able to manage the games directly and cant ever seem to tweak the AI so the team performs as I would manage live. Really looking forward to OOTP20 and hoping the 3D mode is even better.

02-26-2019, 11:29 AM	#6
SeanBerry Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 48	I'm really not understanding you or maybe I'm not being clear. To only pick from the playerson the Colt 45's and Mets is not a true expansion draft experience because it doesn't factor in the players they didn't pick that were available. I can't start 1962 and do an expansion draft on the spot. If I do, the Mets and Colt 45's are already there. That's why I have to start in 1961 and sim that season. This is pretty common among those us of that love historical expansion. I actually found out about that trick in this forum. But it's still a lousy solution because you end up with coaches you don't want already hired and the 1961 sim is obviously not exactly accurate. I'ts not the same universe. Not only that but especially in 1993 and 1998, the team budgets are insanely low. I'm a little confused why you are defending this. The expansion element of the game is not very good. Maybe it's not worthwhile to fix because very few of us play it. That, I don't know.

02-26-2019, 11:43 AM	#7
Cactusguy21 Major Leagues Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 332	I like playing modern expansion drafts, but yeah historical in general as a mode is a mess.

02-26-2019, 11:47 AM	#8
TwinsGuy11 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 213	Personally, the inaccurate contracts kills it for me.

02-26-2019, 12:52 PM	#11
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 8,880	Since it was mentioned above, how does Baseball Mogul's historical expansion feature work?

02-26-2019, 04:58 PM	#15
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 8,880	I love random debut which is a cousin of historical. Love it because I can use real players, but create fictional teams and use my desired league setups. Plus random debut allows me to start with a clean slate, no history. Really hoping someday we can zero out history again when playing non random debut historical. All it would take is the ability to select whether or not we want players that miss a season to reappear. If they don't reappear, we could zero out history without a problem.

02-26-2019, 05:02 PM	#16
LegalEagle80 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 113	I've never played anything except for modern MLB (whatever year it is in real life), but reading this makes me want to try a historical run now.

02-26-2019, 05:30 PM	#17
Reed All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 1,947	David, what do you mean you say, “hoping we can zero out history when playing non random debut historical”? That is how I play. If I want to start a league in 1901 for example, I start in 1895 (or earlier), play to spring of 1901, delete career records, service time and everything (except injuries), release all players for a draft, set up my league/teams/schedule. Run my draft (players injured in 1901 will be available for draft). Players/teams have zero history. Players that are injured will miss the season (if you have that option selected) and when they come off the injured list in following year(s), they will start with zero career stats.

02-26-2019, 09:43 PM	#20
Shoeless' Socks Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 157	My sense as of today... is that there is a silent majority of players that play solo play with their favorite team and now... Perfect Team. Those of us that enjoy Historical Play and Online Leagues are currently in my estimation in the vast but very vocal minority...