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Old 01-11-2011, 10:34 PM   #21
ctorg
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I took a look for myself (using a query of the retrosheet file imported into an Access copy of Lahman)... It seems that all players who debut from the 1950s forward are in there. Once you get back into the 40s, you start getting guys who are not, and that list grows quickly as you go further back. So the transaction file is probably good for expansion era baseball and going back a few years before that. That's certainly enough to make it useful.
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Old 01-12-2011, 05:30 AM   #22
Markus Heinsohn
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Well, I looked into this for OOTP 8 IIRC, but dismissed the idea because I felt it wouldn't add enough compared to the amount of work needed to properly implement it.

If someone provides me with a cleaned up file which has only major league transactions that OOTP supports (draft, trade, release, FA sign, Rule 5 draft) I can look into it again...
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Old 01-12-2011, 08:12 AM   #23
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Maybe we could make this into a project and give each person a certain
range of names to check. Especially to check 19th century players.
And as far as war years do You retire the player or put them in the FA pool?
If so how do You keep them from signing and how does it affect the players ratings?
Should his ratings go down?
After that all we need is for Markus to program the actual lineups for
each baseball season and we are good to go. Just kidding.
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Old 01-12-2011, 09:26 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, I looked into this for OOTP 8 IIRC, but dismissed the idea because I felt it wouldn't add enough compared to the amount of work needed to properly implement it.

If someone provides me with a cleaned up file which has only major league transactions that OOTP supports (draft, trade, release, FA sign, Rule 5 draft) I can look into it again...
That should be easy enough. Anybody want to put this together?

I can also give you a list of the opening day organizations for every player based on that database. This way there is a backup in case the database information is not complete.
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Old 01-12-2011, 10:26 AM   #25
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Since I already have the db and Gambos list I'll take this on.

I'll add "transactions" to the db for the missing players based on the Gambo list and my list which covers the more olderer years so the file will work for all players in all years.

The major league transactions only clean up is done but I noticed whilst doing said cleaning uping that in historical leagues, to which this file applies, pre-1901 contains no real teams or leagues and so the transaction file is useless for the first 30 years as well as the Federal League of 1914 and 1915. Is this OK by everyone? If so I'll strip those out as well.

Last edited by Spritze; 01-12-2011 at 10:35 AM.
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Old 01-12-2011, 11:02 AM   #26
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I figure just use my list and add a line in as a generic player move. The database has "unknown transaction" so that should work. It could be coded as a "move" in game where the player is placed on another roster.
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Old 01-12-2011, 11:16 AM   #27
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Can't use your list (or mine) as Draft Picks go to the minors and so are statless and pointless and also only major league transactions will be covered per Markus.

The first transaction for any player will be their Major League debut.

A player who only played 1 game in his career will have a debut transaction and probably no other. He'll stay available as a reserve until the development cycle retires him. If he gets traded or signed or whatever to another org of course he will appear in the trade and move to the new place and then hang out there.

There are issues with having enough major league players available due to the lack of historical roster sizes. The generic 25man causes issues if the real roster size was 18 and there were only 3 fellers with major league experience in the minors. This happens in the 1900's as I disremember. Controlling transactions makes it worse as there are no free agents to sign as everybody is somewhere.

Historical roster sizes will need to be implemented or else havok will ensue.

Canned worms anyone?

Last edited by Spritze; 01-12-2011 at 12:57 PM.
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Old 01-12-2011, 12:24 PM   #28
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I'm willing to help with pre-1901 players. I think what we could do is
When there's no date for a transaction is maybe put the date in between his last game for his first
Team and the first game for the new team. You would have to match games played against the actual schedule. After he goes to his final team it shouldn't matter how many games he plays.
May not be exact but better than nothing.

Oh and will the computer just retire a player and unretire him without
Another team being able to sign him or is that still done manually?
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Old 01-12-2011, 12:56 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by BaseballMan View Post
I'm willing to help with pre-1901 players. I think what we could do is
When there's no date for a transaction is maybe put the date in between his last game for his first
Team and the first game for the new team. You would have to match games played against the actual schedule. After he goes to his final team it shouldn't matter how many games he plays.
May not be exact but better than nothing.

Oh and will the computer just retire a player and unretire him without
Another team being able to sign him or is that still done manually?
Pre-1901 OOTP contains no real teams or leagues and so the transaction file is useless for the first 30 years as well as the Federal League of 1914 and 1915. Is this OK by everyone?
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Old 01-12-2011, 01:43 PM   #30
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I have no problem with it.

Mark Miller has transaction and as-played lineup files on his website. Have you looked at them? I don't know, but I wonder if it could save you some trouble.

Mark Miller's Baseball Goodies

I would also be willing to help you with this project. Let me know if there's anything I can do. I'm interested in the as-played lineup files. These seem to be simple enough. I imagine it'd be easier to incorporate them into OOTP12 than the transaction files. (But what do I know?)
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Old 01-12-2011, 01:59 PM   #31
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Transaction file is already done but the issues above need addressing.

I'll post the full file on my ftp site, including the added transactions. I'll re-remove the minor league and 1800's stuff whenever the issues are de-issued.

1) 2600 players that never appeared in the majors are involved in trades which means that sometimes it will appear that a player is traded for "nobody".

2) Also a player can be traded from one org to another before he exists in the db as a major league player so all transactions that occur before the players major league debut will need to expunged as well which will add lots more "nobody" trades to item 1.

Yup, this is definately a worm can. Anyone know how the other game companies make this work?

Last edited by Spritze; 01-13-2011 at 03:06 PM.
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Old 01-13-2011, 04:09 PM   #32
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T1) 2600 players that never appeared in the majors are involved in trades which means that sometimes it will appear that a player is traded for "nobody".
Seems to me that in those cases you can change the transaction type from a trade to a sale.
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Old 01-13-2011, 04:32 PM   #33
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Anyone know how the other game companies make this work?
I haven't tried Puresim3, but it has transactions for 1946-Present. I wonder if you could find out more about their DB by DL'ing the PS3 demo.
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Old 01-13-2011, 05:29 PM   #34
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Historical roster sizes will need to be implemented or else havok will ensue.

Canned worms anyone?
They should have been put in long ago. Along with a few other basic rules from the period that would go a long way to better mimicking the period in question.
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Old 01-13-2011, 05:41 PM   #35
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I DL'd the PS3 demo. Found the Lahman DB, but no transaction entries.
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Old 01-13-2011, 07:08 PM   #36
Spritze
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Which of the attached transaction types should be included as Major League transactions.
Attached Files
File Type: xls TransactionTypes.xls (14.5 KB, 105 views)
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Old 01-13-2011, 07:24 PM   #37
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PS3 has the following "player movement" options in-game:

1. Promotions/Demotions
2. DL Moves
3. In-Season FA Signings
4. Releases
5. Amateur Draft Signings
6. Trades
7. Initial Draft Signings
8. Off-Season FA Signings
9. Contract Extensions
10. Rejected Contract Extensions
11. Expansion Draft Signings
12. Retirements
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Old 01-13-2011, 07:35 PM   #38
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If we were to categorize them:

Contracts

1. Initial Draft Signings
2. Amateur Draft Signings
3. Expansion Draft Signings
4. Off-Season FA Signings
5. In-Season FA Signings
6. Contract Extensions
7. Rejected Contract Extensions

Roster Movement

1. Promotions/Demotions
2. Disabled List
3. Trades
4. Releases

Career Termination

1. Retirements
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Old 01-13-2011, 07:41 PM   #39
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To me, the contract categories do not affect rosters (except for in-season FA signings). Same thing for draft picks. (Waiver picks, too?) OOTP already handles retirements. So, we really need to isolate the items that affect rosters during the season. Am I on the right track?

Last edited by pstrickert; 01-13-2011 at 07:42 PM.
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Old 01-13-2011, 07:51 PM   #40
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Can't use draft signings as those players have no stats in Lahman for their draft year, so no ratings, and they can't show up and play until their ML debut.

Roster Movement, we don't have Numbers 1 or 2 and only some #4's.

I'd say the PS3 model doesn't fit as there are only a few "retirements" and the majority of the things you have under contracts do not exist either.

We only have the retrosheet transaction data to work with.

Markus would like it cleaned up and to only contain Major League transactions. I did arrange the dates, added 4,500 additional transactions for players who had none (mostly major league debut signings)

Last edited by Spritze; 01-13-2011 at 07:59 PM.
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