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Old 10-09-2019, 03:59 PM   #21
Cobra Mgr
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30 is the max to me. 23 sounds reasonable. It would not surprise me though for them not to reach 20.
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Old 10-09-2019, 04:09 PM   #22
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30 is the max to me. 23 sounds reasonable. It would not surprise me though for them not to reach 20.
I wonder if their leading scorer will have over 18.00 PPG

I am hammering every Hornets under I can find gambling wise.
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Old 10-14-2019, 03:27 PM   #23
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NBA's "dirty little secret"
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Old 10-14-2019, 05:19 PM   #24
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NBA Players upset with NBA over China, talk with Commisioner Silver
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Old 10-14-2019, 09:46 PM   #25
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Eventually a point will have to be reached where the teams, players and league gives up some of the money and move to a 68 or 70 game schedule.
Or expand out rosters to 18 players and have more two way contracts. Or both.
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Old 10-15-2019, 03:38 AM   #26
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My first reaction is to wonder how much sleep deprivation is a problem in the NBA compared to many sectors of mainstream society. I don't know the answer. But many people work two jobs and/or have crazy, stressful hours for other reasons (work/school/single-parent, etc.). I mean, if the only difference between NBA players and a chunk of regular society is the first-class travel and accommodations, round-the-clock access to chefs & dieticians, masseuses & physical therapists - not to mention the salary - then I guess I'd wonder if there's any cause to worry about this dirty little secret.

Which afflicted group needs remedies more, the 500 or so (mostly) well-compensated hoopsters, or the millions out there legitimately struggling?

(I'd also wonder what the NBAers from bygone eras might think about this...)

And no, I'm not throwing shade at today's NBAers. Just wondering if perspective might be in order here. (Or maybe I'm missing something.)
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Old 10-15-2019, 03:42 AM   #27
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Eventually a point will have to be reached where the teams, players and league gives up some of the money and move to a 68 or 70 game schedule.
Or expand out rosters to 18 players and have more two way contracts. Or both.
By "the league gives up some money" are you referring to the owners? Or owners and players? If the players are willing to give up money in order to have a less-stressful schedule, then sure. But, IMO, it shouldn't be just the owners (not sure if you're suggesting that or not). The players are well-compensated for the demands placed up on them, I'd say.
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Old 10-15-2019, 08:20 AM   #28
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My first reaction is to wonder how much sleep deprivation is a problem in the NBA compared to many sectors of mainstream society. I don't know the answer. But many people work two jobs and/or have crazy, stressful hours for other reasons (work/school/single-parent, etc.). I mean, if the only difference between NBA players and a chunk of regular society is the first-class travel and accommodations, round-the-clock access to chefs & dieticians, masseuses & physical therapists - not to mention the salary - then I guess I'd wonder if there's any cause to worry about this dirty little secret.

Which afflicted group needs remedies more, the 500 or so (mostly) well-compensated hoopsters, or the millions out there legitimately struggling?

(I'd also wonder what the NBAers from bygone eras might think about this...)

And no, I'm not throwing shade at today's NBAers. Just wondering if perspective might be in order here. (Or maybe I'm missing something.)
So because I'm suffering it is ok for you to continue suffering?
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Old 10-15-2019, 11:22 AM   #29
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By "the league gives up some money" are you referring to the owners? Or owners and players? If the players are willing to give up money in order to have a less-stressful schedule, then sure. But, IMO, it shouldn't be just the owners (not sure if you're suggesting that or not). The players are well-compensated for the demands placed up on them, I'd say.
All three groups would have to give up something. It would not be easy, but the owners would have to be shown that the overall product would be better by having a shorter schedule.

And not just for sleep or injuries. But for the overall health and quality of the game.
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Old 10-15-2019, 05:04 PM   #30
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So because I'm suffering it is ok for you to continue suffering?
No. I'm saying that perspective might be in order, perhaps to acknowledge/address the wider issue that affects millions who are less equipped and compensated to deal with it.

Many jobs offer compensation commensurate with the stresses of frequent travel and/or other "features" that stress the mind or body (or at least those components of a job are well-known before a person chooses to enter the field). While the relative (to other jobs) high salary of NBAers is more related to their unique ability to excel and entertain, they are well-compensated for the irritating & stressful components of their job.

Also, if this really is an issue, from a PR perspective it's not doing the players much good when they are well-known for burning the midnight oil on road trips to LA, NY, and Miami.

Finally, I'd like to know what some old-timers - a guy like Havlicek - would think about this, especially when factoring in the travel and other lifestyle perks that today's NBAers get compared to guys from back-in-the-day. (I know that Mychal Thompson - former Laker who's frequently on local sports talk radio - thinks load management is a joke, that today's players are compensated well-enough and have access to all the pampering they need to deal with the grind of the NBA schedule.)
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Old 10-15-2019, 08:32 PM   #31
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NBA problem is way less severe than NFL in terms of health. If we want to talk about what we should let people give up in return of money, NFL is not that far from allowing people to sell organs.
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Old 10-15-2019, 10:48 PM   #32
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No. I'm saying that perspective might be in order, perhaps to acknowledge/address the wider issue that affects millions who are less equipped and compensated to deal with it.

Many jobs offer compensation commensurate with the stresses of frequent travel and/or other "features" that stress the mind or body (or at least those components of a job are well-known before a person chooses to enter the field). While the relative (to other jobs) high salary of NBAers is more related to their unique ability to excel and entertain, they are well-compensated for the irritating & stressful components of their job.

Also, if this really is an issue, from a PR perspective it's not doing the players much good when they are well-known for burning the midnight oil on road trips to LA, NY, and Miami.

Finally, I'd like to know what some old-timers - a guy like Havlicek - would think about this, especially when factoring in the travel and other lifestyle perks that today's NBAers get compared to guys from back-in-the-day. (I know that Mychal Thompson - former Laker who's frequently on local sports talk radio - thinks load management is a joke, that today's players are compensated well-enough and have access to all the pampering they need to deal with the grind of the NBA schedule.)
I'm confused. Why do you say we need "perspective"? If the numbers say a player's cognitive ability consistently goes down considerably as the season goes on, what more perspective is needed?
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Old 10-16-2019, 02:33 PM   #33
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I'm confused. Why do you say we need "perspective"? If the numbers say a player's cognitive ability consistently goes down considerably as the season goes on, what more perspective is needed?
The same can be said for many jobs. Lower level workers of big consulting/law/accounting are like that before they made it. Doctors all start their careers like that. Tech start ups are like that. They all do this due to expected future compensation.
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Old 10-16-2019, 03:33 PM   #34
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The same can be said for many jobs. Lower level workers of big consulting/law/accounting are like that before they made it. Doctors all start their careers like that. Tech start ups are like that. They all do this due to expected future compensation.
It's not a matter of if they can endure it. It is a matter of whether you are 1.) getting the most out of the player and 2.) whether it costs you more in the long run because the risk of injury increases.

We already acknowledge the affect of little sleep on the job because we require truckers to have mandatory rest breaks. Therefore, this isn't exactly news breaking. So I don't see why we need more info or to do more tests on other occupations. I just thought the article was interesting in showing the tangible affect.
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Old 10-16-2019, 03:40 PM   #35
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I'm confused. Why do you say we need "perspective"? If the numbers say a player's cognitive ability consistently goes down considerably as the season goes on, what more perspective is needed?
Well, this...

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The same can be said for many jobs. Lower level workers of big consulting/law/accounting are like that before they made it. Doctors all start their careers like that. Tech start ups are like that. They all do this due to expected future compensation.
... and...

Millions of those in the daily grind who are experiencing sleep deprivation due to the need to work multiple jobs, school, raising a family, whatever, and do not have the means to adequately cope with it... vs hundreds of NBA players with countless work/life advantages over the vast majority of society. Perspective.
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Old 10-16-2019, 03:43 PM   #36
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Well, this...



... and...

Millions of those in the daily grind who are experiencing sleep deprivation due to the need to work multiple jobs, school, raising a family, whatever, and do not have the means to adequately cope with it... vs hundreds of NBA players with countless work/life advantages over the vast majority of society. Perspective.
So......NBA players are possibly affected more by sleep deprivation because they have a cushy lifestyle?
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Old 10-16-2019, 03:49 PM   #37
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It's not a matter of if they can endure it. It is a matter of whether you are 1.) getting the most out of the player and 2.) whether it costs you more in the long run because the risk of injury increases...
From that perspective, for sure.

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I just thought the article was interesting in showing the tangible affect.
Agree!
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Old 10-16-2019, 04:00 PM   #38
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So......NBA players are possibly affected more by sleep deprivation because they have a cushy lifestyle?
I assume you meant to write "less" not "more"...

At any rate, all I'm saying is that if an emergency room gets 20 people with bad flu-like symptoms, and 18 of them are elderly and weak (i.e., less equipped to fight it) and 2 of them are young and strong (i.e., well equipped to fight it), you'd figure the emergency room protocol would be to hit the higher numbers of most-at-risk folks first.

But again, I see now where your perspective is based upon your other recent post - the costs/risks associated with NBA-player sleep deprivation, which is definitely interesting and something the owners should consider addressing.

Last edited by thehef; 10-16-2019 at 04:01 PM. Reason: clarity
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Old 10-16-2019, 04:11 PM   #39
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I assume you meant to write "less" not "more"...

At any rate, all I'm saying is that if an emergency room gets 20 people with bad flu-like symptoms, and 18 of them are elderly and weak (i.e., less equipped to fight it) and 2 of them are young and strong (i.e., well equipped to fight it), you'd figure the emergency room protocol would be to hit the higher numbers of most-at-risk folks first.
Correct. But it doesn't mean they would ignore the healthier group. So that's why I'm confused w/the reasoning. Whether it is a phenomenon w/the NBA only or it affects the entire human race. If we see data that confirms it is a factor in a certain group, why would we need to check other groups first before addressing the current need?

FYI, your flu example reminded me of the Spanish Influenza epidemic during WWI where young people were actually more likely to die than older ones. Because, in theory, the virus caused strong immune systems to overload while those w/weaker ones didn't react as strongly. So it illustrates the need to treat all regardless of whether they seem to have, on the surface, advantages over another.
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Old 10-16-2019, 04:35 PM   #40
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Correct. But it doesn't mean they would ignore the healthier group. So that's why I'm confused w/the reasoning. Whether it is a phenomenon w/the NBA only or it affects the entire human race. If we see data that confirms it is a factor in a certain group, why would we need to check other groups first before addressing the current need?
Perhaps we can agree, or perhaps not, that society should be concerned* with the millions who struggle with sleep deprivation, whereas the NBA should be concerned with the hundreds of of players who struggle with sleep deprivation.

*I'm the last person to advocate for government involvement, that's not at all what I mean...

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FYI, your flu example reminded me of the Spanish Influenza epidemic during WWI where young people were actually more likely to die than older ones. Because, in theory, the virus caused strong immune systems to overload while those w/weaker ones didn't react as strongly. So it illustrates the need to treat all regardless of whether they seem to have, on the surface, advantages over another.
Interesting. Don't think there's a parallel to this subject, but if there is, I'm sure you'll point it out
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