Do you want team color text back...Vote here!

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by Bowtie

I am temporarily breaking my self imposed silence to voice my concerns about this topic.

This is utterly despicable. It does not surprise me that OOTP Developments made such a disrespectful and selfish decision to remove the team colors in OOTP 15 that were highly favored in OOTP 14. And to rub salt in our wounds, they made their paying customers find out the hard way. Shame on you! Here I am making new logos for OOTP 15 using the hex codes from the OOTP 14 logos and I find out the hard way that I now have to go back and eliminate part of the codes? Pathetic. In the mods forum, there was no mention of this change. Why? That in itself is ridiculous.

I second what Charlie Hough said in his post above. It is my every hope that OOTP Developments has learned their lesson and that they compromise with us and make this an option. By the way, I voted yes to bring them back.

I apologize for my rant but the way I see it is OOTP Developments brought this upon themselves.

As always, cheers to all.

Bow

Bowtie, are you serious with this or making a sarcastic point? Either way, it seems over the top for you. Not that you have to agree, but see my post #42 for my take. Agree at all? It's a significant issue, but let's not overreact (or be too coy) about it.

EDIT: I guess you are serious:

Originally Posted by Bowtie

To clarify, I am not mad, just very disappointed. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Well, I stick by what I said. It's an irritant, that's all. Let's work on correcting it.

[megamanmatt]

Originally Posted by Honorable_Pawn

Well said.

Right now I am unhappy with a few things but by no means have I written off 15 as a no-purchase. I'm going to wait and see. Again, this color thing is big for me but it isn't my only concern.

That's fair. It bothered me at first I'll admit. It's just over time I've gotten used to it and really don't notice it much anymore. Agreed you can end up with several teams with a similar color scheme, but unless you use the same logo and uniforms for every team as well there are still a number of visual difference that make it clear who and what you're looking at.

The people who "can't tell the difference between team x and team y" and thus feel Markus and Co screwed up just make no sense to me. That's simply a matter of someone not paying enough attention to what they are doing and to me that is not satisfactory.

However that'll be the end of me bothering you folks in this thread. I've said my piece and made my feelings known. That's all I set out to do.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by megamanmatt

Not related to the topic in any way shape or form but..... I've been sigged. My life is complete and I can now die a happy nerd. It's feels like I always imagined it would.

You're welcome.

[Déjà Bru]

Here's the scenario. I am playing an historical fictional game (real teams, fictional players) and I am letting the game update the logos and unis by using historical versions of those files (what a blessing). Problem is, the logos have the team colors (background and text) encoded in them. It's 1902, so maybe the background colors will become more differentiated over time, but for now many teams are using the same dark blue. Without the ability to differentiate the text color a bit (I haven't checked closely, but I think there is some variation there in the historical logo files), I see many match-ups like this one:

[Bowtie]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

Bowtie, are you serious with this or making a sarcastic point? Either way, it seems over the top for you. Not that you have to agree, but see my post #42 for my take. Agree at all? It's a significant issue, but let's not overreact (or be too coy) about it.

EDIT: I guess you are serious:

Well, I stick by what I said. It's an irritant, that's all. Let's work on correcting it.

Yes, I agree Bru. It's significant but definitely not a game breaker by any means. In fact, if it helps any I did purchase v15 for the full price. I didn't want to purchase it for the discount. I'm not stating my point as well as I should (my fault). What I'm trying to get at is this part of the game wasn't broken to the point where it needed an overhaul. Perhaps just some tweaking during beta testing and maybe they could have come to a compromise then as opposed to later?

I do stand by my statement "that OOTP Developments made such a disrespectful and selfish decision to remove the team colors in OOTP 15 that were highly favored in OOTP 14."

I have expressed my disapproval of this change and I now go back to my logo making.

Cheers!

[Fyrestorm3]

For what it's worth, using the MLB as an example: the Yankees, Rays, Tigers, Indians, Twins, Mariners, Braves, Brewers, and Nationals ALL default to similar shades of Navy & White. Meanwhile, the Red Sox, Cardinals, Reds, Phillies, Angels, and Diamondbacks ALL default to Red & White. The Royals, Rangers, Blue Jays, Cubs, and Mets ALL default to a lighter Blue & White. Yikes.

To those saying it's not a big deal: well, it's not. No one's saying it's a total game-breaker. I don't regret buying 15 in the least, and it's still a great game that I would wholeheartedly recommend to others. But I really, REALLY do not like this change. Try playing out a game between two of those teams above and tell me it isn't at least a little annoying to have only a few shades of difference between the two teams. Just being able to have tan text for Arizona and black text for Cincinatti adds an incredible amount of variation that we (obviously) took for granted before.

The thing that I'm upset about, however, is the fact that this cosmetic change was FORCED on us. This is a game that is built and marketed on customization. Even the new UI comes pre-packaged with three different skins. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever to take any cosmetic option away from the players.

As I said before, a default to white & black text would be fine, as long as there was some way to change it back.

[megamanmatt]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

The thing that I'm upset about, however, is the fact that this cosmetic change was FORCED on us. This is a game that is built and marketed on customization. Even the new UI comes pre-packaged with three different skins. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever to take any cosmetic option away from the players.

Originally Posted by Bowtie

I do stand by my statement "that OOTP Developments made such a disrespectful and selfish decision to remove the team colors in OOTP 15 that were highly favored in OOTP 14."

Ok I lied. One more post worth of rant then I'm done because these types of statements are the ones I'm talking about. I'm also going to preface this with everything I say is about these statements and these statements only. I am in no way trying to disparage against Bowtie or Fyre. I don't know Bowtie but Fyre is well known and I know him to be an intelligent and decent guy. I just assume the same about Bowtie.

That said these statements are straight grade A BS and as close to "the dumbest things said" I've heard today. To imply that we, as customers, have any kind of ownership whatsoever over OOTP is ludicrous. We pay for the game as it is designed and if we, for instance, purchase a game before having all the specifics on said game like UI we give up said right to complain. We are big boys (and maybe girls. I don't think I've ever actually seen one here but I'll leave the option open) and responsible for our own financial decisions.

Then there is the matter of acting like Markus is in some dark bunker somewhere wringing his hands together as he devises ways to screw his customers over. That just bothers me. Markus and the team work their tails off to give us as deep and customizable a game as humanly possible and to insinuate he forced something on us rather than making it customizable is damned insulting. If said UI functions could be customizable then they would be. That's just how Markus makes his games if history is any judge.

Ok. Now I'm done. I'm sorry to any friends I may have lost.

[Fyrestorm3]

I think the difference here, Matt (and don't worry, I get where you're coming from, don't be afraid to debate) is that this was a customization option that was already in the game, and had already been in the game for years. It's not a brand new UI that has to be coded a specific way. It's the same type of in-game screen that we've had for quite a while, only now it's less customizable than it's always been. That's a step backwards; there's no way around it.

[Bowtie]

Originally Posted by megamanmatt

That said these statements are straight grade A BS and as close to "the dumbest things said" I've heard today.

Well, Matt, just asking but perhaps you need to re-read what Charlie said? That's where the disrespect come in. Add to that that they didn't want to hear a word to the contrary is indeed selfish. Markus has said before that the beta team seems to know more this game than he does.

Also, I think Fyre did a great job at providing his constructive feedback. This change was indeed forced against our better wishes. If the development team is going to ask what we want in this game then they should not be making these types of decisions.

So far you Matt are the only one who's implying that we are saying that Markus is screwing us over - which is Grade A BS. Not me nor Fyre are implying that at all.

Now, may I PLEASE go back to making my new logos, LOL.?

[megamanmatt]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

I think the difference here, Matt (and don't worry, I get where you're coming from, don't be afraid to debate) is that this was a customization option that was already in the game, and had already been in the game for years. It's not a brand new UI that has to be coded a specific way. It's the same type of in-game screen that we've had for quite a while, only now it's less customizable than it's always been. That's a step backwards; there's no way around it.

Well I could see them changing it to make it easier on folks who have problems seeing colors. It's a pretty sizable part of the population and it can be a pain switching them all to make them visible in some situations. Not the greatest explanation obviously as it ignores the whole "we used to have it" part of the argument.

To provide an idea however maybe rather than have the UI as a solid team color have the team text color fade in gradually. For a visual idea of what I'm talking about look at the default baseball card set, but with the color changing horizontally rather than vertically.

[megamanmatt]

Originally Posted by Bowtie

Well, Matt, just asking but perhaps you need to re-read what Charlie said?

Well in anything like that there are multiple sides to the story. While I know Charlie is an honest guy and I really don't think he's lying, unless I have both sides I have to make a decision based on past history. That's all.

Originally Posted by Bowtie

Also, I think Fyre did a great job at providing his constructive feedback. This change was indeed forced against our better wishes. If the development team is going to ask what we want in this game then they should not be making these types of decisions.

So far you Matt are the only one who's implying that we are saying that Markus is screwing us over - which is Grade A BS. Not me nor Fyre are implying that at all.

I think you misunderstood me which is totally possible because I'm a bit confusing as far as people go. I wasn't implying you or Fyre were saying anything personally. It's really just the content of the individual posts I had issue with. You and Fyre really had nothing to do with it past your names being on the quotes because you actually said them. I've never been one to assume people mean what I read into them.

So I'm sorry if you misunderstood that and took any offense to what I said. I really wasn't aiming any of what I said at you directly.

[Honorable_Pawn]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

For what it's worth, using the MLB as an example: the Yankees, Rays, Tigers, Indians, Twins, Mariners, Braves, Brewers, and Nationals ALL default to similar shades of Navy & White. Meanwhile, the Red Sox, Cardinals, Reds, Phillies, Angels, and Diamondbacks ALL default to Red & White. The Royals, Rangers, Blue Jays, Cubs, and Mets ALL default to a lighter Blue & White. Yikes.

To those saying it's not a big deal: well, it's not. No one's saying it's a total game-breaker. I don't regret buying 15 in the least, and it's still a great game that I would wholeheartedly recommend to others. But I really, REALLY do not like this change. Try playing out a game between two of those teams above and tell me it isn't at least a little annoying to have only a few shades of difference between the two teams. Just being able to have tan text for Arizona and black text for Cincinatti adds an incredible amount of variation that we (obviously) took for granted before.

The thing that I'm upset about, however, is the fact that this cosmetic change was FORCED on us. This is a game that is built and marketed on customization. Even the new UI comes pre-packaged with three different skins. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever to take any cosmetic option away from the players.

As I said before, a default to white & black text would be fine, as long as there was some way to change it back.

Throwing out the baby with the bath water.

[pstrickert]

I don't remember having much of a discussion about team colors during beta testing (that is, as it pertains to the text boxes on the field). I went back through some of the beta threads and found one person who raised the issue. Markus then replied with a quick explanation for why he made the change (namely, that some color combinations were hard to read). Then the person who raised the issue replied briefly. And then Charlie replied, registering his disagreement with the decision.

That's all I could find (though I'll admit I could have just missed something). FWIW.

[Honorable_Pawn]

Originally Posted by megamanmatt

To imply that we, as customers, have any kind of ownership whatsoever over OOTP is ludicrous.

Attention all planets of the solar federation...attention all planets of the solar federation...we have assumed control..we ave assumed control.

[pstrickert]

It is true, though, as Charlie said, that objections were raised about the skins in general (namely, that the secondary team color was not being used). That discussion was more animated.

[megamanmatt]

Originally Posted by pstrickert

It is true, though, as Charlie said, that objections were raised about the skins in general (namely, that the secondary team color was not being used). That discussion was more animated.

See now that's how I imagined things went down tbh. And there I would agree, the fact the secondary team color isn't utilized in anyway bothers me.

[Honorable_Pawn]

Originally Posted by megamanmatt

Ok. Now I'm done. I'm sorry to any friends I may have lost.

No friends lost.

As a consumer, as a conscious entity, I assume full ownership. It's not Markus' game. It's mine. I paid for it. I earned the money...I bought the license. He only makes it for me! Power is with the people not the CEO. The 99% could topple the 1% anytime they felt like it. I understand Markus is not a 1 percenter but my point is that ownership only exists because we (the consumer) allows it. Marcus is nothing without "the universal me."

Unlike you I do not believe that supply-side economics controls the market. If Markus wasn't around someone else would quickly fill that void--I'm sure you have heard of football manager and a half a dozen others. I don't owe Markus a dime. I don't have to thank him he needs to thank me...the demand. The point of most of the disgruntled long-tern fans is the disregard for what the demand wants. Sure I am just one gut. Bow Tie is just one guy. It's folly to blow-off want the customer wants.

Please I am not trying to be burly here. I'm trying to be methodical and 100% honest. I stand for the little guy. I stand for the consumer.

[megamanmatt]

Originally Posted by Honorable_Pawn

No friends lost. As a consumer, as a conscious entity, I assume full ownership. It's not Markus' game. It's mine. I paid for it. I earned the money. He only makes it for me!

I hate to break it to you, but since you're an American what you bought was a license to the game. Thank Microsoft. They started it.

[Honorable_Pawn]

Originally Posted by megamanmatt

I hate to break it to you, but since you're an American what you bought was a license to the game. Thank Microsoft. They started it.

Major edit above.


I understand the license purchase thing. It is irrelevant to my point. It could be popcorn Markus was selling. He better check to see if people want butter on their popcorn or if they want vegetable oil.

[megamanmatt]

Originally Posted by Honorable_Pawn

Major edit above.


I understand the license purchase thing. It is irrelevant to my point. It could be popcorn Markus was selling. He better check to see if people want butter on their popcorn or if they want vegetable oil.

If people ask for butter or vegetable oil after they've purchased and consumed the popcorn then what their choice is is irrelevant, however the customer will learn to check what the options are before they hand over their precious dollar and the seller will learn to offer options to reach an even wider customer base.