Scouting

ike121212 · 09-30-2015, 12:14 AM

I'm a long time OOTP player, and I'm trying to learn as I go in FHM. Admittedly, I was very happy when OOTP shifted from somewhat granular scouting and assignments to it's current form. I'm surprised to see FHM so far in the opposite direction, but now I need to learn how to handle it. I've made some major mistakes:

-You need a lot of scouts. Looking at other teams, 15-30 seems to be the range.

-If you give the AI control over transactions and scouting, it will not sign scouts.

-It seems like there's no way to extend scout contracts.

-I was signing scouts off of the default personnel view on the free agents screen, based off their reputation. Big mistake, as all the valuable information is on another view. Does the region displayed here factor into assignments?

-Even with 30+ scouts, and the AI in control, I can enter the draft without reports on top picks and only old reports on some others.

I don't want to micro manage scouting. Hopefully some of these are bugs or will be improved, but right now, I'm not finding the system intuitive and it is very punishing.

Cole · 09-30-2015, 08:53 AM

Quote:

-It seems like there's no way to extend scout contracts.

You will get an email about expiring personnel contracts during the season and that is when you can extend them.

Quote:

I don't want to micro manage scouting.

If you turn scouting to AI control you should be fine to not micromanage and just do the bare minimum.

I am far from an expert on scouting in the game (I don't love that level of micromanagement either), but those are the answers I do know for you.

Also, in case you haven't already, I would advise you to check out the scouting section in the game manual:

Out of the Park Developments Online Manuals

ike121212 · 09-30-2015, 03:02 PM

I appreciate the response, but I already checked the manual and it doesn't say anything on my points.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole

You will get an email about expiring personnel contracts during the season and that is when you can extend them.

If you turn scouting to AI control you should be fine to not micromanage and just do the bare minimum.

I am far from an expert on scouting in the game (I don't love that level of micromanagement either), but those are the answers I do know for you.

Also, in case you haven't already, I would advise you to check out the scouting section in the game manual:

Out of the Park Developments Online Manuals

After getting the email, click to open the scout, click on action -> my only option is Release Scout. I'd presume that's a bug.

Year 3, with 35 scouts, the #1 pick in the draft is a 2.5e, 6e out of the Q. The equivalent of Connor McDavid being un-scouted. As I mentioned, many others with 9 month+ old reports or none at all. I think it's fair to expect AI control to give recent reports on all first round prospects from major leagues.

IMO, the scouting director should ensure all 4+ draft-eligible prospects are scouted. It should be a core responsibility of his, and should not require any regional assignments.

checkyoursixx · 10-01-2015, 09:21 AM

Perhaps we can get a feature in the future where we can disable Scouting altogether?.

I do switch the Scouting to AI since I cant be bothered with it, but then I need to deal with all those news messages. =)

Mecza · 10-01-2015, 11:48 AM

I'm speaking as someone who played a ton of OOTP and one season of FHM2 as an NHL team.

Scouting in OOTP is a bit of a misnomer. There is really nothing to "scout". You put the best guy you can as a scouting director and is used to relay talent of the entire world.

The 16 year olds that are signed for free come from nowhere and is luck of the draw with the only input being which countries you want the scout to look at via check-boxes. The draft is filled with randomly generated players prior to the draft with everyone already evaluated. Even with feeders, players are automatically evaluated at generation. Only difference is that it may take another month or two for refined scouting. The international amateur free agents are randomly generated and scouted for you. The scout is really just a vessel in which the GM views talent in the world and the OOTP system is very much a "hire and forget" kind of system. By no means do I think it's bad, it's just a much more hands off approach.

To be honest, I actually think the system in FHM is much more interesting. Seeing the list of new players eligible for the draft is like opening a pack of baseball cards. You don't know what is really out there, but you're sure excited to go out there and rummage through to find the busts and gems starting with the regions of the best players. You get a general idea at the start, but a lot of those 4.5e potential players don't look so rosy after scouting them. That same feeling doesn't really exist with OOTP.

However, the FHM system could very much use some refinement to make it less tedious. I'm pretty sure there is no staff limit. I could hire 50 or 60 scouts if I wanted to, but I won't because I don't want to exploit the system and add more tedium to myself. Staff budgets are too high (especially when playing as GM/Head Coach as you don't have to worry paying 1.5 million dollars to a head coach...opens up a ton of money) or salaries are too low. I realize it's kind of arbitrary, but I would prefer the game to set an internal staff limit for each position. Like you can have a maximum of 5 assistant coaches (Goalie, forward, defense, general, and physio?) and 30 scouts with your budget being a relevant constraint. In testing myself, I could hire 30 assistant coaches with no discernible effects. Teams have roster limits for players and I would like to see that extend to staffs as well. If a coach or scout is on the market, I have no real concerns over losing them to other teams as well since there is really no negotiating. I think a simple system similar to OOTP would be beneficial here.

I guess figuring out the best way to send scouts out is part of the fun, but I wish the game would provide feedback before the assignment. Something along the lines of "we estimate this 8 week scouting trip to Ontario will evaluate 160 players. Each player will be looked at twice (so C level reporting) which represents the 700 players eligible according to the scouting criteria." As you toggle different options, the game lets you know how the trip changes as well. It at least lets me know if the trip is worth it to me based on the estimate of players scouted and quality.

This is just me thinking out loud and I don't know what the best decision is from a design perspective. I actually have like 2 pages of hand written notes that I'd like to consolidate into a post on constructive feedback, but I want to wait until I play more of the game. Loving it so far though.

ike121212 · 10-01-2015, 08:07 PM

Getting scouting reports for the Q is a persistent problem for me (with the AI in full control over scouting). Not sure what it is about that region, but it often goes un-scouted.

Balerstos · 10-02-2015, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecza

This is just me thinking out loud and I don't know what the best decision is from a design perspective. I actually have like 2 pages of hand written notes that I'd like to consolidate into a post on constructive feedback, but I want to wait until I play more of the game. Loving it so far though.

I really liked a lot of the thoughts in this post. As one who is primarily focused on the scouting/GM stuff as opposed to the micromanaging of the game to game stuff, I've got a lot of ideas about it as well. Conceptually, an OOTP style being offered would be cool as long as the option for a more robust style is also available.

Right now, the thing I'd like to see most is a scouting service (like ISS) three times a season that we can utilize before/during the draft to manage who, and where, we want to scout.

A little draft info in the prospects profile would be nice too.

Riverdome · 10-02-2015, 04:04 PM

Given the current system we probably need a central scouting report at some point - based on an average scout's abilities. If I never send a scout to the Q I should still know if they have the consensus #1 overall pick in the NHL draft - even the occasional TSN viewer would know that.

zyberianwarrior · 10-02-2015, 05:24 PM

you don't need a lot of scouts (in anything especially roid ball) pending on how your leagues are set up but follow my example. We'll do what EVERYONE knows NHL....What I do is have ONE scout for the ENTIRE NHL League (no need for more than this) mainly because everyone knows who is who. ONE scout for AHL (you could go two here but NO MORE) AHL is the primary feeding ground for the NHL. ECHL ONE SCOUT ONLY!!!! ECHL while exciting is regarded as a last chance league for most of the players it is that RARE for a player to come from ECHL to AHL TO NHL....Most players take the European/Canadian juniors route first then AHL.....Now then IF you have the scouts put ONE EACH into EACH of the Canadian juniors (QMJHL, OHL, WHL there is a CHL you need to get looked at too this helps out your drafting). I don't do a full season on any scout (except for next opponent) now when the world juniors starts up GET YOUR SCOUTS THERE PERIOD THE MORE THE BETTER!!! Now for Europe there are only three leagues you really need to concern yourself with primarily....KHL, Swedish Major (forgot their appropriate name) and FINLAND!!!!! Really no need to have one in each but rotate at least one in each league. You want to have your scouts do at least the first two months then rotate SWARM the winter tournaments then one month back in the leagues take a break then the FINAL TWO MONTHS (playoffs included and especially) of the leagues I have mentioned. By this time you will have all the data you need to make smart draft picks. Other European leagues to glance over are EBEL (Austrian league), DEL League (German) and Czech league don't waste too much time with those leagues though. Also don't worry too much about their respective junior leagues (most of them are not worth it). Also when the scouts take their break assign them to stuff like the NCAA and other leagues just don't spend too much time with them. Some mention the ISS scouting reports well even they have been wrong a few times and ask an NHL team say oh I dunno DETROIT how they are finding the players and consistently in the playoffs???? You have your answer.....good luck everyone...

10-01-2015, 11:48 AM	#5
Mecza Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 268	I'm speaking as someone who played a ton of OOTP and one season of FHM2 as an NHL team. Scouting in OOTP is a bit of a misnomer. There is really nothing to "scout". You put the best guy you can as a scouting director and is used to relay talent of the entire world. The 16 year olds that are signed for free come from nowhere and is luck of the draw with the only input being which countries you want the scout to look at via check-boxes. The draft is filled with randomly generated players prior to the draft with everyone already evaluated. Even with feeders, players are automatically evaluated at generation. Only difference is that it may take another month or two for refined scouting. The international amateur free agents are randomly generated and scouted for you. The scout is really just a vessel in which the GM views talent in the world and the OOTP system is very much a "hire and forget" kind of system. By no means do I think it's bad, it's just a much more hands off approach. To be honest, I actually think the system in FHM is much more interesting. Seeing the list of new players eligible for the draft is like opening a pack of baseball cards. You don't know what is really out there, but you're sure excited to go out there and rummage through to find the busts and gems starting with the regions of the best players. You get a general idea at the start, but a lot of those 4.5e potential players don't look so rosy after scouting them. That same feeling doesn't really exist with OOTP. However, the FHM system could very much use some refinement to make it less tedious. I'm pretty sure there is no staff limit. I could hire 50 or 60 scouts if I wanted to, but I won't because I don't want to exploit the system and add more tedium to myself. Staff budgets are too high (especially when playing as GM/Head Coach as you don't have to worry paying 1.5 million dollars to a head coach...opens up a ton of money) or salaries are too low. I realize it's kind of arbitrary, but I would prefer the game to set an internal staff limit for each position. Like you can have a maximum of 5 assistant coaches (Goalie, forward, defense, general, and physio?) and 30 scouts with your budget being a relevant constraint. In testing myself, I could hire 30 assistant coaches with no discernible effects. Teams have roster limits for players and I would like to see that extend to staffs as well. If a coach or scout is on the market, I have no real concerns over losing them to other teams as well since there is really no negotiating. I think a simple system similar to OOTP would be beneficial here. I guess figuring out the best way to send scouts out is part of the fun, but I wish the game would provide feedback before the assignment. Something along the lines of "we estimate this 8 week scouting trip to Ontario will evaluate 160 players. Each player will be looked at twice (so C level reporting) which represents the 700 players eligible according to the scouting criteria." As you toggle different options, the game lets you know how the trip changes as well. It at least lets me know if the trip is worth it to me based on the estimate of players scouted and quality. This is just me thinking out loud and I don't know what the best decision is from a design perspective. I actually have like 2 pages of hand written notes that I'd like to consolidate into a post on constructive feedback, but I want to wait until I play more of the game. Loving it so far though. Last edited by Mecza; 10-01-2015 at 11:57 AM.

10-02-2015, 04:04 PM	#8
Riverdome All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 963	Given the current system we probably need a central scouting report at some point - based on an average scout's abilities. If I never send a scout to the Q I should still know if they have the consensus #1 overall pick in the NHL draft - even the occasional TSN viewer would know that. __________________ I was at the first OOTP Conference, where were you?..........

09-30-2015, 12:14 AM	#1
ike121212 All Star Reserve Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 938	Scouting I'm a long time OOTP player, and I'm trying to learn as I go in FHM. Admittedly, I was very happy when OOTP shifted from somewhat granular scouting and assignments to it's current form. I'm surprised to see FHM so far in the opposite direction, but now I need to learn how to handle it. I've made some major mistakes: -You need a lot of scouts. Looking at other teams, 15-30 seems to be the range. -If you give the AI control over transactions and scouting, it will not sign scouts. -It seems like there's no way to extend scout contracts. -I was signing scouts off of the default personnel view on the free agents screen, based off their reputation. Big mistake, as all the valuable information is on another view. Does the region displayed here factor into assignments? -Even with 30+ scouts, and the AI in control, I can enter the draft without reports on top picks and only old reports on some others. I don't want to micro manage scouting. Hopefully some of these are bugs or will be improved, but right now, I'm not finding the system intuitive and it is very punishing.

10-01-2015, 09:21 AM	#4
checkyoursixx Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 282	Perhaps we can get a feature in the future where we can disable Scouting altogether?. I do switch the Scouting to AI since I cant be bothered with it, but then I need to deal with all those news messages. =)

10-01-2015, 08:07 PM	#6
ike121212 All Star Reserve Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 938	Getting scouting reports for the Q is a persistent problem for me (with the AI in full control over scouting). Not sure what it is about that region, but it often goes un-scouted.

10-02-2015, 05:24 PM	#9
zyberianwarrior All Star Starter Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Columbia TN Posts: 1,461	you don't need a lot of scouts (in anything especially roid ball) pending on how your leagues are set up but follow my example. We'll do what EVERYONE knows NHL....What I do is have ONE scout for the ENTIRE NHL League (no need for more than this) mainly because everyone knows who is who. ONE scout for AHL (you could go two here but NO MORE) AHL is the primary feeding ground for the NHL. ECHL ONE SCOUT ONLY!!!! ECHL while exciting is regarded as a last chance league for most of the players it is that RARE for a player to come from ECHL to AHL TO NHL....Most players take the European/Canadian juniors route first then AHL.....Now then IF you have the scouts put ONE EACH into EACH of the Canadian juniors (QMJHL, OHL, WHL there is a CHL you need to get looked at too this helps out your drafting). I don't do a full season on any scout (except for next opponent) now when the world juniors starts up GET YOUR SCOUTS THERE PERIOD THE MORE THE BETTER!!! Now for Europe there are only three leagues you really need to concern yourself with primarily....KHL, Swedish Major (forgot their appropriate name) and FINLAND!!!!! Really no need to have one in each but rotate at least one in each league. You want to have your scouts do at least the first two months then rotate SWARM the winter tournaments then one month back in the leagues take a break then the FINAL TWO MONTHS (playoffs included and especially) of the leagues I have mentioned. By this time you will have all the data you need to make smart draft picks. Other European leagues to glance over are EBEL (Austrian league), DEL League (German) and Czech league don't waste too much time with those leagues though. Also don't worry too much about their respective junior leagues (most of them are not worth it). Also when the scouts take their break assign them to stuff like the NCAA and other leagues just don't spend too much time with them. Some mention the ISS scouting reports well even they have been wrong a few times and ask an NHL team say oh I dunno DETROIT how they are finding the players and consistently in the playoffs???? You have your answer.....good luck everyone...