Beta Testers

Maverick · 06-01-2006, 05:49 PM

Just who are these people?

This game has been in the making for well over 12 months and has supposed to have been thoroughly tested prior to release, yet within minutes of it being released, people are finding dozens of simple bugs with it. Bugs which should have been spotted by the so-called testers.

The announcement of the date of the first patch even before the majority of people had received there download e-mails was also a great confidence booster!

I will now retreat and await the flaming of the fanboys who seem to be in abundance on his site!

RBLwebguy · 06-01-2006, 05:53 PM

In before lock!

Joshv02 · 06-01-2006, 05:53 PM

draven thinks that first basemen in England play on the left side of the IF.

billethius · 06-01-2006, 05:53 PM

With the amount of people playing the game in different ways and the number of different computer configurations out there, there are bound to be a lot of bugs that are never spotted by beta testers (this is a strong argument for doing a large public beta). It's the same way with almost all games. Civ IV shipped and was completely unplayable by roughly half of the people who bought it. Those who could play it and were enjoying the game were constantly referred to as 'fanboys' for saying that the game worked fine for them (I was one of those who had no problems with it).

There's no way that a software developer can anticipate the many things users are going to attempt to do with their software, nor the many different hardware configurations that they will try to run it on. It seems like a pretty smart move to me for Markus and Co. to anticipate that there are going to be a lot of small bugs found right after release and to a) plan to release a patch right away and b) let the gaming community know about it beforehand.

ozziethesaint · 06-01-2006, 05:55 PM

i will agree to some small, very small, extent...
I think the release must have been rushed because tehre's alot of little things that should have been caught long before the game was released

Goodsox · 06-01-2006, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick

Just who are these people?

This game has been in the making for well over 12 months and has supposed to have been thoroughly tested prior to release, yet within minutes of it being released, people are finding dozens of simple bugs with it. Bugs which should have been spotted by the so-called testers.

The announcement of the date of the first patch even before the majority of people had received there download e-mails was also a great confidence booster!

I will now retreat and await the flaming of the fanboys who seem to be in abundance on his site!

Here we go again

Draft Dodger · 06-01-2006, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshv02

draven thinks that first basemen in England play on the left side of the IF.

they don't?

bgresshrh · 06-01-2006, 05:56 PM

I was not a Beta Tester, however I am in the software business and I know for a fact how hard it is to Beta. No matter what we seem to do for my company, the second it goes out there is a bug reported. Bugs are never all caught until it is released to people who are banging on it all day. Maybe that simple bug as you call it may be a very hard bug to diagnose and they have a record of it, however they just can't replicate it with enough regularity to make sense.

These Beta testers did not get paid (well besides Marc). I am sure they did the best they could as well as learn a new interface as well as make suggestions, etc.....

Your comments are way out of line.

redsox45 · 06-01-2006, 05:56 PM

I am one of the beta testers. Pre-beta actually. I'm also on the text team that wrote the PBP and news for the game.

I'm proud of that, and I'm proud of the other members of the beta team for testing the game as best they could. They did a fine job. We caught a lot of errors before release. We missed a lot. Markus will fix them, we will test his fixes. The community will find new ones.

The fact is, any game will have bugs. Any game will have crashes. But this game, and this team, from the SI folks to us betas, is staying on top of things.

Will

<Pion> · 06-01-2006, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick

Just who are these people?

This game has been in the making for well over 12 months and has supposed to have been thoroughly tested prior to release, yet within minutes of it being released, people are finding dozens of simple bugs with it. Bugs which should have been spotted by the so-called testers.

The announcement of the date of the first patch even before the majority of people had received there download e-mails was also a great confidence booster!

I will now retreat and await the flaming of the fanboys who seem to be in abundance on his site!

I was wondering how long it would take for a post like this to appear.

enuttage · 06-01-2006, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick

Just who are these people?

This game has been in the making for well over 12 months and has supposed to have been thoroughly tested prior to release, yet within minutes of it being released, people are finding dozens of simple bugs with it. Bugs which should have been spotted by the so-called testers.

The announcement of the date of the first patch even before the majority of people had received there download e-mails was also a great confidence booster!

I will now retreat and await the flaming of the fanboys who seem to be in abundance on his site!

Hey Maverick,

I understand your frustration, bro.

Coupla things. If you've got specific bugs, definitely report them over in the tech forum. They may be in the game, but fortunately, Markus has proven time and time again that he is most efficient in fixing things in an incredibly timely manner. If you see something that seems messed up, definitely report it. We'll all be better off for it.

The beta testers did try their hardest, and as someone who was beta testing for Mac, I must tell you that the PC guys (who were there long before me) really gave it a good wringing out. They did a very nice job of isolating the large issues.

That being said, they couldn't catch everything, and they knew that the large scale release would bring a few glitches here and there. That's also, I'm assuming, the reason for the first patch being so early on.

The more feedback you can give to Markus and his team between now and the first patch date, the better.

So as you find those little bugs and annoyances, report 'em! Markus will have almost every single one of them fixed in short order, if the past is any indicator of what the future is to bring from him.

Cheers,

-E

emysdk · 06-01-2006, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by <Pion>

I was wondering how long it would take for a post like this to appear.

I'm amazed it took a whole day. They normally appear about an hour after the shops open when a new version of FM is released.

Jason · 06-01-2006, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by <Pion>

I was wondering how long it would take for a post like this to appear.

I was surprised it didn't happen yesterday.

Hellion9 · 06-01-2006, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emysdk

I'm amazed it took a whole day. They normally appear about an hour after the shops open when a new version of FM is released.

Sometimes even BEFORE the latest version of FM is released.

Sort it out SI!

huskerdan25 · 06-01-2006, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick

Just who are these people?

This game has been in the making for well over 12 months and has supposed to have been thoroughly tested prior to release, yet within minutes of it being released, people are finding dozens of simple bugs with it. Bugs which should have been spotted by the so-called testers.

The announcement of the date of the first patch even before the majority of people had received there download e-mails was also a great confidence booster!

I will now retreat and await the flaming of the fanboys who seem to be in abundance on his site!

I'm no fanboy but I think I would agree with you more if we were finding many critical bugs, show-stoppers as they say in the software business. Being a software engineer, I can tell you that no amount of testing time ever results in finding all bugs and unless a neverending matrix of test scenarios are hit, there are bound to be areas of the code that aren't going to get hit all that often if at all. If I understand correctly, the beta testers were assigned a particular area of functionality but I highly doubt that each tester created a comprehensive test plan in order to hit every possible scenario in an area of functionality. No program, and I mean no program, ever gets released without bugs. So I think your expectations are unreasonable. With the exception of a few complaints about the game crashing, it seems most of the major bugs were caught and dealt with during beta testing, so I think you do an injustice in ranting and insinuating that the beta testers were incompetent or did an incomplete job.

I think the announcement of the patch shows that the development group is ready to quickly respond to major and minor issues with the game. Scheduling it for next Wednesday is a bonus but personally, I would rather wait a few weeks so that more issues can be addressed at once and sufficient testing can be done to ensure the fixes are made and no new bugs are introduced.

Maybe if you had an understanding of how software development works, you'd have a better appreciation for just how well the game is actually working and not focus on the simple bugs that seem to have you irritated.

Goodsox · 06-01-2006, 06:05 PM

Maverick,

I am a beta tester as well and think we did a hell of a job. If you saw the hard work and effort that was put in behind the scenes, this thread would not even be started. I used to be like you years ago wondering why every bug was not caught by the testers. This is not possible! There are so many configurations, setups, games, etc. This group of testers busted their butts to make this game as solid as they can.

bulldog55 · 06-01-2006, 06:05 PM

In!

Raidergoo · 06-01-2006, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick

Why should I trade sleep for work for no pay for the likes of you?

Welcome to my killfile.

RBLwebguy · 06-01-2006, 06:14 PM

I spent many a nights up to 12:00-1:00 AM testing and writing PbP and more testing only to get up at 6:00 AM the next day. I know many here busted their tails to catch what they could before the release. Had SI said, sorry, we will delay the release for another month all of you would have went mental on them. It is almost a no win situation, and a thankless job.

huskerdan25 · 06-01-2006, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RBLwebguy

I spent many a nights up to 12:00-1:00 AM testing and writing PbP and more testing only to get up at 6:00 AM the next day. I know many here busted their tails to catch what they could before the release. Had SI said, sorry, we will delay the release for another month all of you would have went mental on them. It is almost a no win situation, and a thankless job.

RBLwebguy, I am confident that they are many more people here that do appreciate the herculian efforts made by yourself, other beta testers and the development staff, so it isn't a thankless job. As I mentioned in my earlier post, most of the functionality in the game is working well. Maybe it's the optimist me that always looks at the glass as being mostly full rather than partly empty, but I've run into few problems and think this game is outstanding. So, kudos to you and all of those that had a part in bringing us an incredible game!

Dan

06-01-2006, 05:49 PM	#1
Maverick Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Mansfield, UK. Posts: 186	Beta Testers Just who are these people? This game has been in the making for well over 12 months and has supposed to have been thoroughly tested prior to release, yet within minutes of it being released, people are finding dozens of simple bugs with it. Bugs which should have been spotted by the so-called testers. The announcement of the date of the first patch even before the majority of people had received there download e-mails was also a great confidence booster! I will now retreat and await the flaming of the fanboys who seem to be in abundance on his site! __________________ Keith

06-01-2006, 05:53 PM	#3
Joshv02 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: , " Posts: 3,082 Blog Entries: 2	draven thinks that first basemen in England play on the left side of the IF. __________________ Brookline Maccabees. RIP

06-01-2006, 05:56 PM	#9
redsox45 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Machias, Maine Posts: 4,573 Blog Entries: 1	I am one of the beta testers. Pre-beta actually. I'm also on the text team that wrote the PBP and news for the game. I'm proud of that, and I'm proud of the other members of the beta team for testing the game as best they could. They did a fine job. We caught a lot of errors before release. We missed a lot. Markus will fix them, we will test his fixes. The community will find new ones. The fact is, any game will have bugs. Any game will have crashes. But this game, and this team, from the SI folks to us betas, is staying on top of things. Will __________________ Top Five Books I Ever Read: 1. Murder of Roger Ackroyd -- Agatha Christie 2. Birds of Prey -- Wilbur Smith 3. King Solomon's Mines - H. Rider Haggard 4. Comstock Lode -- Louis L'Amour 5. Andersonville -- McKinley Kantor

06-01-2006, 06:05 PM	#16
Goodsox Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 2,866	Maverick, I am a beta tester as well and think we did a hell of a job. If you saw the hard work and effort that was put in behind the scenes, this thread would not even be started. I used to be like you years ago wondering why every bug was not caught by the testers. This is not possible! There are so many configurations, setups, games, etc. This group of testers busted their butts to make this game as solid as they can. __________________ GoodSox Go White Sox!

06-01-2006, 06:05 PM	#17
bulldog55 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: California's Canada Warnings: 17 Posts: 2,475	In! __________________ Commissioner, Trans-Continental Base Ball Association Owner/GM, Los Angeles Electrics (TCBA), Beaverton Rangers (OTBL), Portland Mavericks (Union League), and Los Angeles Superbas (Century League) Being smart, don't always make you popular.

06-01-2006, 05:53 PM	#2
RBLwebguy Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Canuckistan Posts: 5,157	In before lock!

06-01-2006, 05:53 PM	#4
billethius All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 822	With the amount of people playing the game in different ways and the number of different computer configurations out there, there are bound to be a lot of bugs that are never spotted by beta testers (this is a strong argument for doing a large public beta). It's the same way with almost all games. Civ IV shipped and was completely unplayable by roughly half of the people who bought it. Those who could play it and were enjoying the game were constantly referred to as 'fanboys' for saying that the game worked fine for them (I was one of those who had no problems with it). There's no way that a software developer can anticipate the many things users are going to attempt to do with their software, nor the many different hardware configurations that they will try to run it on. It seems like a pretty smart move to me for Markus and Co. to anticipate that there are going to be a lot of small bugs found right after release and to a) plan to release a patch right away and b) let the gaming community know about it beforehand.

06-01-2006, 05:55 PM	#5
ozziethesaint Banned Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Peoria IL Posts: 831	i will agree to some small, very small, extent... I think the release must have been rushed because tehre's alot of little things that should have been caught long before the game was released

06-01-2006, 05:56 PM	#8
bgresshrh Bat Boy Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Vegas Posts: 12	I was not a Beta Tester, however I am in the software business and I know for a fact how hard it is to Beta. No matter what we seem to do for my company, the second it goes out there is a bug reported. Bugs are never all caught until it is released to people who are banging on it all day. Maybe that simple bug as you call it may be a very hard bug to diagnose and they have a record of it, however they just can't replicate it with enough regularity to make sense. These Beta testers did not get paid (well besides Marc). I am sure they did the best they could as well as learn a new interface as well as make suggestions, etc..... Your comments are way out of line.

06-01-2006, 06:14 PM	#19
RBLwebguy Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Canuckistan Posts: 5,157	I spent many a nights up to 12:00-1:00 AM testing and writing PbP and more testing only to get up at 6:00 AM the next day. I know many here busted their tails to catch what they could before the release. Had SI said, sorry, we will delay the release for another month all of you would have went mental on them. It is almost a no win situation, and a thankless job.