Get rid of this horrid amalgam of pitch by pitch and sim an at bat

vesuvius · 06-01-2006, 10:25 AM

Wow, what a complete slap in the face.

What I love, and a lot of people love about text based baseball games, is the ability to quickly manage a game while retaining control over managerial decisions. Prior versions of OOTP have been great for this.

Unfortunately, the squeaky wheel of the pitch-by-pitch crowd has gotten the grease and created a horrifying mess in manage mode now.

If I want to use any managerial discretion and try to steal a base or pitch around a batter I now have to go into pitch by pitch mode, effectively making that at bat take 5 times longer. This makes an overall game take about twice as long on average. This is just AWFUL, in no uncertain terms.

If ever a feature (pitch-by-pitch) should have been implemented as a toggle-able option, this is one. Holy cow. It's awful.

Now, don't jump down my throat singing the praises of pitch-by-pitch and why it should be in the game. I am not disagreeing with that. I am saying that the 2 should be completely separate options on the game setup screen, and not this awful muck of a stew trying to combine both together.

I can manually manage 2 seasons in OOTP6 to my 1 (if that) in OOTP 2006, why in the world would i upgrade? It's a slap in the face.

Steve Kuffrey · 06-01-2006, 10:30 AM

It is also an OPTION, you aren't forced to use it. If you aren't pleased with it then just use the options at the bottom of the screen which are a return to "playing the atbat" only or other play ahead options.

vesuvius · 06-01-2006, 10:32 AM

Perhaps I am missing something, but if you could explain to me how to steal a base or pitch around a batter without going into pitch-by-pitch mode I'll gladly retract all these comments

gordyhulten · 06-01-2006, 10:34 AM

Why would you want to steal a base or run a hit-n-run in anything except pitch-by-pitch mode? Why would you only want to steal bases on 0-0 counts?

I guess I don't see how you can actually manage a game without pitch-by-pitch.

Steve Kuffrey · 06-01-2006, 10:37 AM

Maybe I'm just odd but I like the fact that BOTH options are there in front of you and can be used at anytime.

LeiterFanatic · 06-01-2006, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gordyhulten

I guess I don't see how you can actually manage a game without pitch-by-pitch.

This is the way it has been done in OOTP since version 1 and it worked ok since then.

D Love · 06-01-2006, 10:42 AM

I haven't gotten the game yet, but he seems to be implying that the ability to order a steal without going to pitch-by-pitch mode is gone. You seem to be implying that you can steal a base in "at-bat" mode.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Kuffrey

Maybe I'm just odd but I like the fact that BOTH options are there in front of you and can be used at anytime.

vesuvius · 06-01-2006, 10:42 AM

pitch-by-pitch fanbois need not respond.

Prior versions of OOTP did a perfectly reasonable job of determining whether a baserunner could steal a base or not, or actually get the attempt off without pitch by pitch.

I gladly sacrificed whatever realism you think you are getting in pitch by pitch to get have the at bat finish in 1/5th the time. I understand it's a simulation and the count *really* does not matter. But that is far from the point.

Steve - I can understand you defending your product, but you simply are not answering my question. Is there a way to pitch around a batter or attempt to steal a base without going in to pitch by pitch mode and thereby significantly slowing down the speed of managing the game?

Yes [ ]
No [ ]

If the answer is yes, please explain how
If the answer is no, I am strongly requesting a way to do this in the future, as it is currently a poor implementation, in my opinion.

andymac · 06-01-2006, 10:42 AM

I think this is just another case of where something in the old game became so convenient that it can be hard to deal with the game getting better, but leaving something behind.

vesuvius, I think youl will likely enjoy it this way better once you get used to it.

Draft Dodger · 06-01-2006, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vesuvius

If I want to use any managerial discretion and try to steal a base or pitch around a batter I now have to go into pitch by pitch mode, effectively making that at bat take 5 times longer. This makes an overall game take about twice as long on average. This is just AWFUL, in no uncertain terms.

my word, how many sb attempts are you making in the game?

vesuvius · 06-01-2006, 10:47 AM

Andy, appreciate your comments, but no, I will not enjoy it, won't even touch it (manage mode that is - I think sim mode is great, and always has been).

The interface - that is something I do not like at the moment, but am confident I will really like in 1-2 weeks once I am used to it

I know my limits

Steve Kuffrey · 06-01-2006, 10:47 AM

I understand what you are saying and I'm not saying it is 100% as it was before BUT the option to EITHER : steal, bunt, etc is in front of you as is the option to just simply play the atbat. The game is moving forward, parts of it are going to change. Give it some time.

Jason · 06-01-2006, 10:48 AM

It may be a change for you but I'd hardly call it a slap in the face. I also disagree that it's a "awful muck of a stew trying to combine both together." It's a compromise for both sides of the debate and compromise involves give and take.

In the games I've played out using the current system it's taken no longer than before if the only time you use the pitch by pitch is for stolen bases. However, I"m not trying to steal every time a batter's on base or some similar situation. Are you stealing more than an average team would be?

And vesuvius, this is a message board where many views are going to be expressed and shared. Just like you have the right to post your view others have the right to post their disagreements with you without your returning insults like "fanboy."

alinkens · 06-01-2006, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Kuffrey

Maybe I'm just odd but I like the fact that BOTH options are there in front of you and can be used at anytime.

I have just started playing around with the game and I am also upset at the pitch by pitch mode.. I like Pitch by Pitch for purposes of stealing a base, but if a "bonds" like hitter comes up and I want to Pitch Around him I am forced to enter pitch by pitch mode even with the bases empty! The "Enter to sim batter" is insuffecient when you can't select how you want to sim batter.

jwstern · 06-01-2006, 10:50 AM

Isn't the right answer to switch modes during an at bat when you want to attempt a steal? I haven't gotten the game yet, but it appears you can do that. What might be missing is a single keystroke (e.g. a check box next to the batter) that lets you do the mode switch extremely rapidly.

If that is the case it can't possibly take you much longer to manage the games, because there will be a very small number of steal situations in a game.

Slackker · 06-01-2006, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vesuvius

pitch-by-pitch fanbois need not respond.

People who share your opinion feel free to respond at will with nothing that contributes to the actual point.

While I have no advice concerning your issue (and I do agree with it) I will suggest that coming across as constructive, rather than insulting "squeaky wheel" comments (note: I think that squeaky wheel is bigger than our wheel) may yield better results.

I'm nowhere near an official answer, but as for the question you aimed at Kuffrey.. no, and there's no other way that I have found which will end in your desired results. Edit to add: No way other than what has been discussed above.

gordyhulten · 06-01-2006, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeiterFanatic

This is the way it has been done in OOTP since version 1 and it worked ok since then.

Well, I don't agree that it worked OK. Being forces to steal on 0-0 counts was just one small problem.

While 6.5 gave you a small taste of what managing a baseball game can be like, mostly in terms of player substitutions, the actual gameplay strategic decisions were horribly limited by the one-pitch method.

I'm not trying to be a fanboy of pitch-by-pitch, but I don't understand how, if you're serious enough to want to manage out your games, you wouldn't want the option of deciding on which pitch to steal, and on which pitch to pitch out.

Steve Kuffrey · 06-01-2006, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwstern

Isn't the right answer to switch modes during an at bat when you want to attempt a steal? I haven't gotten the game yet, but it appears you can do that. What might be missing is a single keystroke (e.g. a check box next to the batter) that lets you do the mode switch extremely rapidly.

If that is the case it can't possibly take you much longer to manage the games, because there will be a very small number of steal situations in a game.

Actually one option(pitch mode) is in the "game window", while the "atbat mode"(as it now exists) is on the lower window bar of the game.

Jason · 06-01-2006, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwstern

Isn't the right answer to switch modes during an at bat when you want to attempt a steal? I haven't gotten the game yet, but it appears you can do that. What might be missing is a single keystroke (e.g. a check box next to the batter) that lets you do the mode switch extremely rapidly.

If that is the case it can't possibly take you much longer to manage the games, because there will be a very small number of steal situations in a game.

Good idea but both options are available to you at all times. If you want to sim the at bat quickly, you press F1 or click a box on the bottom of the screen. If you want to go pitch by pitch, you can do that with another menu. So there really isn't a need for a toggle between the modes since both are always available.

Bobbo · 06-01-2006, 10:57 AM

I imagine I'm going to like the pbp mode better because stealing strategy changes GREATLY depending on the count. One of the things I noticed about 6/6.5 was that for a lot of played-out games I would find myself clicking mindlessly for a half hour. I'm going to like anything that makes me more mentally involved.

06-01-2006, 10:25 AM	#1
vesuvius Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Ashburn, VA Posts: 136	Get rid of this horrid amalgam of pitch by pitch and sim an at bat Wow, what a complete slap in the face. What I love, and a lot of people love about text based baseball games, is the ability to quickly manage a game while retaining control over managerial decisions. Prior versions of OOTP have been great for this. Unfortunately, the squeaky wheel of the pitch-by-pitch crowd has gotten the grease and created a horrifying mess in manage mode now. If I want to use any managerial discretion and try to steal a base or pitch around a batter I now have to go into pitch by pitch mode, effectively making that at bat take 5 times longer. This makes an overall game take about twice as long on average. This is just AWFUL, in no uncertain terms. If ever a feature (pitch-by-pitch) should have been implemented as a toggle-able option, this is one. Holy cow. It's awful. Now, don't jump down my throat singing the praises of pitch-by-pitch and why it should be in the game. I am not disagreeing with that. I am saying that the 2 should be completely separate options on the game setup screen, and not this awful muck of a stew trying to combine both together. I can manually manage 2 seasons in OOTP6 to my 1 (if that) in OOTP 2006, why in the world would i upgrade? It's a slap in the face. __________________ Join the CBL Rewind, a great historical OOTP 15 league! http://thecblonline.com/cblr/cblr.php Commish : wedgeeric@aol.com Join the Computer Baseball League, one of the longest running OOTP leagues in history (OOTP5)! http://www.thecblonline.com/cbl.php

06-01-2006, 10:30 AM	#2
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,022	It is also an OPTION, you aren't forced to use it. If you aren't pleased with it then just use the options at the bottom of the screen which are a return to "playing the atbat" only or other play ahead options. __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

06-01-2006, 10:32 AM	#3
vesuvius Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Ashburn, VA Posts: 136	Perhaps I am missing something, but if you could explain to me how to steal a base or pitch around a batter without going into pitch-by-pitch mode I'll gladly retract all these comments __________________ Join the CBL Rewind, a great historical OOTP 15 league! http://thecblonline.com/cblr/cblr.php Commish : wedgeeric@aol.com Join the Computer Baseball League, one of the longest running OOTP leagues in history (OOTP5)! http://www.thecblonline.com/cbl.php

06-01-2006, 10:34 AM	#4
gordyhulten All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Champaign, IL Posts: 1,175	Why would you want to steal a base or run a hit-n-run in anything except pitch-by-pitch mode? Why would you only want to steal bases on 0-0 counts? I guess I don't see how you can actually manage a game without pitch-by-pitch. __________________ Gordy Hulten Owner / General Manager Red Willow Roadrunners -- Kennel Series Champions: 1951, 1959, 1964, 1965, 1972, 1975, 1980, 1982, 1983 Dog Days Baseball - "The World's Best Online OOTP League" Creator inactive: Republican League - OOTP 2009 Dynasty inactive: Republican League Dynasty - Version 2.0 inactive: Republican League Dynasty

06-01-2006, 10:37 AM	#5
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,022	Maybe I'm just odd but I like the fact that BOTH options are there in front of you and can be used at anytime. __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

06-01-2006, 10:42 AM	#8
vesuvius Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Ashburn, VA Posts: 136	pitch-by-pitch fanbois need not respond. Prior versions of OOTP did a perfectly reasonable job of determining whether a baserunner could steal a base or not, or actually get the attempt off without pitch by pitch. I gladly sacrificed whatever realism you think you are getting in pitch by pitch to get have the at bat finish in 1/5th the time. I understand it's a simulation and the count really does not matter. But that is far from the point. Steve - I can understand you defending your product, but you simply are not answering my question. Is there a way to pitch around a batter or attempt to steal a base without going in to pitch by pitch mode and thereby significantly slowing down the speed of managing the game? Yes [ ] No [ ] If the answer is yes, please explain how If the answer is no, I am strongly requesting a way to do this in the future, as it is currently a poor implementation, in my opinion. __________________ Join the CBL Rewind, a great historical OOTP 15 league! http://thecblonline.com/cblr/cblr.php Commish : wedgeeric@aol.com Join the Computer Baseball League, one of the longest running OOTP leagues in history (OOTP5)! http://www.thecblonline.com/cbl.php

06-01-2006, 10:42 AM	#9
andymac Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Effingham, IL Posts: 5,725	I think this is just another case of where something in the old game became so convenient that it can be hard to deal with the game getting better, but leaving something behind. vesuvius, I think youl will likely enjoy it this way better once you get used to it. __________________ June Madness: Links FTB: andymac

06-01-2006, 10:47 AM	#11
vesuvius Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Ashburn, VA Posts: 136	Andy, appreciate your comments, but no, I will not enjoy it, won't even touch it (manage mode that is - I think sim mode is great, and always has been). The interface - that is something I do not like at the moment, but am confident I will really like in 1-2 weeks once I am used to it I know my limits __________________ Join the CBL Rewind, a great historical OOTP 15 league! http://thecblonline.com/cblr/cblr.php Commish : wedgeeric@aol.com Join the Computer Baseball League, one of the longest running OOTP leagues in history (OOTP5)! http://www.thecblonline.com/cbl.php

06-01-2006, 10:48 AM	#13
Jason Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 3,827 Blog Entries: 3	It may be a change for you but I'd hardly call it a slap in the face. I also disagree that it's a "awful muck of a stew trying to combine both together." It's a compromise for both sides of the debate and compromise involves give and take. In the games I've played out using the current system it's taken no longer than before if the only time you use the pitch by pitch is for stolen bases. However, I"m not trying to steal every time a batter's on base or some similar situation. Are you stealing more than an average team would be? And vesuvius, this is a message board where many views are going to be expressed and shared. Just like you have the right to post your view others have the right to post their disagreements with you without your returning insults like "fanboy."

06-01-2006, 10:50 AM	#15
jwstern Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 25	Isn't the right answer to switch modes during an at bat when you want to attempt a steal? I haven't gotten the game yet, but it appears you can do that. What might be missing is a single keystroke (e.g. a check box next to the batter) that lets you do the mode switch extremely rapidly. If that is the case it can't possibly take you much longer to manage the games, because there will be a very small number of steal situations in a game.

06-01-2006, 10:57 AM	#20
Bobbo Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 141	I imagine I'm going to like the pbp mode better because stealing strategy changes GREATLY depending on the count. One of the things I noticed about 6/6.5 was that for a lot of played-out games I would find myself clicking mindlessly for a half hour. I'm going to like anything that makes me more mentally involved.