Are the 1800's still a mess?

[Carlton]

I was trying to recreate the history for the 19th century, yet the database does not allow one league it seems, and the names will not change from year to year most of the time.

I also downloaded the add ons that are through the game, and I have George Wright as a black man with a Rangers uniform on, and yet when I try to load the George Wright (2) jpg for his photo, nothing happens.

I am doing everything wrong, and could anyone help? I longed for 19th century when I had OOTP 6 but now it seems I need a programming manual to go through all the background criteria just to play the game.

I also have hispanic and black coaches, even though I downloaded an historical package into my document folder to make it all white until segregation...

[AESP_pres]

Edit : Just realize you were talking of player pictures, but it's the same principle

It's because the name are repeated in the database, so the George Wright from the 19th century is George Wright (1). This is why I use the Gambo database since the name are different, by exemple the George Wright from the Rangers is George D. Wright. If you use the database in the game the first players that played is always the one with the highest number in bracket. What you can do is make a backup of your FG folder with any name you want and make another fg_files folder where you place the one you need for your game because I think the game always go with the name without number, so this way you can place the good one.

What I mean (because I confuse myself writing this...) is :

You want the 19th century George Wright, so you move George Wright (1) in your new FG_files folder, after that you erase the (1) from the file name and you get the good one.

Hope I ain't too confusing...

[mjj55409]

Originally Posted by Carlton

I was trying to recreate the history for the 19th century, yet the database does not allow one league it seems, and the names will not change from year to year most of the time.

It's a peculiar hobby of mine to recreate the 19th century, and I can say that yes, it does work quite well. A single sub-league is not a problem. It is not a problem to have an uneven number of teams and an unbalanced schedule.

However, if you are looking for the game to handle the structural simulation of the 19th century automatically, that won't happen. You need to handle to the league changes and the name changes yourself. You shouldn't need a "programming manual" to do this, but the 19th century is certainly labor intensive.

Take a look my current thread in the Dynasty section. I've done this multiple times.

Originally Posted by Carlton

I also have hispanic and black coaches, even though I downloaded an historical package into my document folder to make it all white until segregation...

What "historical package" are you referring to here? I'm not aware of any mod that will do this for you automatically. Again, if you want this level of realism, you will need to come up with a manual technique to use multiple namesets.

[Biggio509]

A couple of things. To my surprise the game imported the 1876 season perfectly from my DB when there was only a NL in 1876. It created the AL with no teams. Note my DB is modified to have actual teams so AL appears in 1871, I am not sure if it makes a difference or not. I am going to test taking out the fake AL teams I delete upon game start and see if it still works. I also have a fake NA team to make the number of NA teams even.

The database must convert NA to NL and AA to AL for it work but it does work. In my current game I had the NA as a separate league. I imported in 1871 and then played to 1876 and imported a new league for 1876 with the beginning of the NL. There were an even number of teams in 1876 so no problem importing and the AL was created but left blank. That way my history home separates the NA stats from the NL and AA.

The game can handle contraction but with a catch. It does not release players when the league contracts. So if the team ID for say Fort Wayne does not exist in 1872 the team goes inactive but the players stay on the roster. You have to go to free agents show all players and click on the contracted team name to release all players. Mass select does not work for this either.

So you can auto-expand and contract in the 19th century but I am not sure manually deleting teams and adding new ones is not easier. Contractions are sort semi-auto. The game does contract but players are not released.

I am in the 1880's in my current league which I have done manual contractions with and I think it is a little more fun subtracting and adding teams manually than releasing players from contracted teams.


One other thing that might be of interest is that once the game starts adding fictional leagues are tricky. Even if you set the settings to current year it uses 2010 data for the rules and player creation. If you want to say create the Cuban league in 1878 you have to create 2 teams, delete all players, delete the 2 teams, and change settings for the current year. If you want them to draft free agents no problem just add the teams. If you don't teams have modern finances and stadiums and will be able to sign every single player in the league if they wanted to. We are talking an era where a $1200 contract is big. If you want to auto-fill the game glitches and still creates modern type players, at least if you have not forwarded the sim. I am not sure if forwarding the sim fixes this. So I created the teams in the NA and auto-filled with current PCMs then moved them to the Cuban league. They will not show up in history if they have not played a game so it doesn't screw up the NA history. Typos not caught until the next season will though.

The other thing is you can't change settings to one year contracts which was the norm of the era. If you want to simulate it you could use league functions to release all players and clear rosters with no fan interest or financial hit each off season. This is trickier when the first reserve limit of 5 players comes in. You could look at each team and list the 5 who would be reserved and reassign them to their teams after release with the editor giving them a long contract but it is a lot of work. I usually don't go reserve clause until the leagues set the reserve limit to the number of players teams usually carried 11. Generally for the reserve clause era I set the secondary roster limit to the roster limit (15 usually that is the smallest size) that way teams can only retain the current roster and the rest are free agents that if you have a fake minor with no affiliates so there is no reserve roster nor affiliates to put extra players. If you affiliate a minor setting minor league free agency to 1 year will mean those not on the secondary/active roster will be free agents. The only problem is the game for some reason always gives 1 year automatic renewal. My suspicion is that it may be linked to service time for one year.

After 1910 it may be better to go with affiliated minors even though it is a little early. That is when we have the 25/40 protected system and you can set minor league free agency to 1 year since this was prior to the farm system. I haven't fully figured this out because of the buy back clauses used in optional assignments meant the indie minors were working similar to the affiliated minors prior to the farm system. Teams did not officially have control but the contract allowed them to buy back a player at any time so the affect was pretty much the same.

[ashantewarrier]

Originally Posted by Carlton

I also have hispanic and black coaches, even though I downloaded an historical package into my document folder to make it all white until segregation...

I play 19th century baseball quite a lot myself. In order to reflect the all-white segregation that took place during that era you will have to modify the ethnicities file to reflect 100% Caucasian. That is what I do.

For my authenticity I use a modified name file for each decade of the 19th century as well. Also, as stated before, if you wish to follow the expansion and contraction of leagues of that era you will have to do that manually.

[Biggio509]

I think the easiest way is use questdog's name file. US Historical in his setup is reserved for African-American names. So you can just set US modern to 100% then adjust Hispanic and US (historical) when the time comes.

One problem is only the nation file has the rules for percentage of facial types. If you eliminate AA faces in that file you will never get them in the US. If you use facegen you have to manually adjust non-white/Hispanic pictures. Unfortunately you can't reload nation files like you can elasticities files. I find my self adjusting the nations manually at least every decade to keep up with changes.

Also one thing to note is only blacks were excluded from Baseball. There were one or 2 Cuban players late 19th and early 20th century. Hispanic players and even native American players were never barred. They were more rare in that baseball centered around the NE and then most Hispanics were in the SW. So there was less Hispanic exposure. You don't find many leagues in the South until much later with a few exceptions like Texas league opening in the late 1890's. Even the data show very few players from anywhere south of MO. and few from the SW region.

I have not used it yet but I created a new country for Negro leagues in my nation file. I am using a modified questdog DB. So the Negro League nation is set to 100% US historical and black face generation is 100%. It is easy to have an all black league like just set the rules to no foreigners. The problem is I have no idea how to keep from blacks from being generated as foreigners in the MLB other than manually purging them. They would be easily identified by country. The other problem is the Negro Leagues were pretty good so giving them a good or excellent rating would generate a good percentage of "foreign players" coming from the Negro league nation.

[ashantewarrier]

Originally Posted by Biggio509

I think the easiest way is use questdog's name file. US Historical in his setup is reserved for African-American names. So you can just set US modern to 100% then adjust Hispanic and US (historical) when the time comes.

One problem is only the nation file has the rules for percentage of facial types. If you eliminate AA faces in that file you will never get them in the US. If you use facegen you have to manually adjust non-white/Hispanic pictures. Unfortunately you can't reload nation files like you can elasticities files. I find my self adjusting the nations manually at least every decade to keep up with changes.

Also one thing to note is only blacks were excluded from Baseball. There were one or 2 Cuban players late 19th and early 20th century. Hispanic players and even native American players were never barred. They were more rare in that baseball centered around the NE and then most Hispanics were in the SW. So there was less Hispanic exposure. You don't find many leagues in the South until much later with a few exceptions like Texas league opening in the late 1890's. Even the data show very few players from anywhere south of MO. and few from the SW region.

I have not used it yet but I created a new country for Negro leagues in my nation file. I am using a modified questdog DB. So the Negro League nation is set to 100% US historical and black face generation is 100%. It is easy to have an all black league like just set the rules to no foreigners. The problem is I have no idea how to keep from blacks from being generated as foreigners in the MLB other than manually purging them. They would be easily identified by country. The other problem is the Negro Leagues were pretty good so giving them a good or excellent rating would generate a good percentage of "foreign players" coming from the Negro league nation.

Yes, I modified Questdog's historical name files to match the historical naming convention of OOTP11. With each passing era/decade I re-import the appropriate name-file for that era/decade.

I modified the Nations file within OOTP for each nation's baseball quality to be non-existent except the U.S. which is Excellent. Also, I edit a few European nations such as Ireland and Canada to fair to reflect early European immigrants participation in Major League Baseball.

As I move ahead into the modern era and desegregation of Baseball, I edit the ethnicities file to reflect minorities entry into the Major Leagues. I also edit the Baseball quality of the nations file as well as I move ahead towards the modern era.

[Carlton]

Thanks guys, a lot of great responses.

For the name file I used Malleus Dai's all american file and I overwrote the original files (I didn't save the previous ones so I have another issue)

So I need to get questdogs db and gambos db?

[mjj55409]

What kind of league are you putting together? Real historical players? Fictional historical?

I too am using Malleus's name file. What I did was start with the Malleus file and then use it to create multiple nations: e.g., USA_1870, USA_1900, USA_1945, USA_1970. I then tweak the ethnicities to get the mix I want in the era. For instance, my current league started in 1870, now I'm in the early 1900s, and I am getting a few Hispanic players (I have it setup so I get 1 about every 2-3 seasons).

[Biggio509]

This is far from finished but it may be interesting to you. I am compiling a spread sheet for birth places of US players to determine foreign percentage and what level of play countries should have. The data is taken from baseball almanac's page listing players by birth place. I am only through the 1880's but the sheet breaks down foreign players by birth place calculating a percentage of foreign players than a percentage of foreign players by nationality. I assigned baseball level based on the number of players from that country/foreign players.

Country 1876 1877 1878 1879 1870's level
US 108 86 72 102 368
Canada 1 1 1 3
England 5 3 1 1 10
Germany 1 1
Ireland 4 5 4 13
Scotland 1 1 2
Czech 1 1
Foreign % 6.09% 8.51% 8.86% 7.27% 7.27%
% CAN 16.67% 12.50% 0.00% 12.50% 10.00% 4
% UK 71.43% 37.50% 14.29% 12.50% 33.33% 5
%D 14.29% 3.33% 3
%IRE 57.14% 71.43% 57.14% 43.33% 5
%Scot 14.29% 12.50% 6.67% 3
%czech 12.50% 3.33% 3


Country 1880 1881 1882 1883 1884 1885 1886 1887 1888 1889 1880's LEVEL
Foreign% 8.09% 10.00% 5.81% 7.91% 8.65% 10.43% 5.19% 7.25% 5.73% 6.14% 7.48%
%AUSSIE 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 1.52% 2.78% 5.56% 0.00% 0.00% 4.76% 1.64% 2
%AUST 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 2.78% 5.56% 4.17% 5.00% 0.00% 1.64% 2
%CAN 36.36% 46.15% 64.29% 45.45% 56.06% 38.89% ##### 37.50% 40.00% 47.62% 47.13% 5
%ENG 18.18% 0.00% 28.57% 0.00% 6.06% 11.11% 5.56% 8.33% 5.00% 4.76% 7.79% 4
%GER 9.09% 0.00% 7.14% 9.09% 7.58% 11.11% ##### 8.33% 10.00% 9.52% 8.61% 3
%IRE 27.27% 38.46% 0.00% 36.36% 22.73% 22.22% ##### 33.33% 35.00% 28.57% 26.64% 5
%Scot 9.09% 15.38% 0.00% 9.09% 6.06% 8.33% 0.00% 8.33% 5.00% 4.76% 6.56% 4
%Swe 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 2.78% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 1

The last number by the country is the baseball level I assigned so you get approximately the right percentage of foreigners. You have to manually adjust these every decade or so because they is no way to reload the nations file like you can ethnicities.

[ashantewarrier]

Originally Posted by Biggio509

This is far from finished but it may be interesting to you. I am compiling a spread sheet for birth places of US players to determine foreign percentage and what level of play countries should have. The data is taken from baseball almanac's page listing players by birth place. I am only through the 1880's but the sheet breaks down foreign players by birth place calculating a percentage of foreign players than a percentage of foreign players by nationality. I assigned baseball level based on the number of players from that country/foreign players.

Country 1876 1877 1878 1879 1870's level
US 108 86 72 102 368
Canada 1 1 1 3
England 5 3 1 1 10
Germany 1 1
Ireland 4 5 4 13
Scotland 1 1 2
Czech 1 1
Foreign % 6.09% 8.51% 8.86% 7.27% 7.27%
% CAN 16.67% 12.50% 0.00% 12.50% 10.00% 4
% UK 71.43% 37.50% 14.29% 12.50% 33.33% 5
%D 14.29% 3.33% 3
%IRE 57.14% 71.43% 57.14% 43.33% 5
%Scot 14.29% 12.50% 6.67% 3
%czech 12.50% 3.33% 3


Country 1880 1881 1882 1883 1884 1885 1886 1887 1888 1889 1880's LEVEL
Foreign% 8.09% 10.00% 5.81% 7.91% 8.65% 10.43% 5.19% 7.25% 5.73% 6.14% 7.48%
%AUSSIE 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 1.52% 2.78% 5.56% 0.00% 0.00% 4.76% 1.64% 2
%AUST 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 2.78% 5.56% 4.17% 5.00% 0.00% 1.64% 2
%CAN 36.36% 46.15% 64.29% 45.45% 56.06% 38.89% ##### 37.50% 40.00% 47.62% 47.13% 5
%ENG 18.18% 0.00% 28.57% 0.00% 6.06% 11.11% 5.56% 8.33% 5.00% 4.76% 7.79% 4
%GER 9.09% 0.00% 7.14% 9.09% 7.58% 11.11% ##### 8.33% 10.00% 9.52% 8.61% 3
%IRE 27.27% 38.46% 0.00% 36.36% 22.73% 22.22% ##### 33.33% 35.00% 28.57% 26.64% 5
%Scot 9.09% 15.38% 0.00% 9.09% 6.06% 8.33% 0.00% 8.33% 5.00% 4.76% 6.56% 4
%Swe 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 2.78% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 1

The last number by the country is the baseball level I assigned so you get approximately the right percentage of foreigners. You have to manually adjust these every decade or so because they is no way to reload the nations file like you can ethnicities.

Thanks Bigs for this. I usually set my overall foreign percentages to 3% during 19th century play. But this will definitely a goof point of reference!

[David Ball]

Originally Posted by Biggio509

One other thing that might be of interest is that once the game starts adding fictional leagues are tricky. Even if you set the settings to current year it uses 2010 data for the rules and player creation.

If it's not hijacking the thread too badly, would it be possible for someone to post a detailed explanation of how to fix this? I've tried following several suggestions, but they never work, so I must be doing something wrong.

[mjj55409]

Originally Posted by David Ball

If it's not hijacking the thread too badly, would it be possible for someone to post a detailed explanation of how to fix this? I've tried following several suggestions, but they never work, so I must be doing something wrong.

I have found that this is only a bug in the wizard for the year initially selected. So if you choose any year other than the one that you want, and then change the year to your desired year, the settings are correct.

Note that I haven't tested this extensively, because I continue to use my method of creating the league in another country. I do this because I also want to delete the generated coaches, and this is much easier to do when you can group them by Nationality.

My process --

1. Create a league with your desired structure based in Afghanistan (only because it's the first country in the list).
2. Delete all players from the teams.
3. Delete all free agents from Afghanistan.
4. Delete all coaches from Afghanistan (most tedious part; what I wouldn't give for a mass select in the coaches list).
5. Make all appropriate league settings (financials, player creation, etc).
6. Change league to desired country.
7. Rename all teams, change each team's country to the desired country.
8. Profit.

Now you have an empty league--no players, no personnel--ready for you to play God.

[Carlton]

A lot of this stuff went over my head, but I am trying to grasp it.

What I did, was go through every team and edit their coaches, then went through the nations and got rid of Asia and South America adding in Eastern Europe.

That is doing an historical league, and it looks like MJ has it down pat on how to create a fictional league

[BaseballMan]

Dont know about fictional 19th century leagues but for historical its the best its ever been imo. You can run one league. You just cant have a playoff when you only have one league but isnt that the same as it was in real life. Also players can go to their orginal teams. LGO's schedules really help out in simming cause teams are playing the same amount of games as rl. Its just up to you to make historical trades and keep an eye on settings.
As for when there were 3 Leagues i think the best choice is just to make 2 divisions under the American league or American Association and put the Aa in one and Ua or Pl in the other.
It isnt perfect but i think its made a lot of improvement since 2006. Are there any other games that you can even attempt to sim 19th century play?

[mjj55409]

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

...You can run one league. You just cant have a playoff when you only have one league but isnt that the same as it was in real life...

Actually, not quite true. You can do this. In the 1890s, after the collapse of the American Association, the National League implemented a championship series. In 1892, they tried a split season, with the first-half winner playing the second-half winner. That didn't proved too popular, so in 1894, Pittsburgh owner William Temple donated a championship trophy to the league and instituted the Temple Cup Series, which pitted the first place finisher against the second place finisher. This wasn't all that popular either, and only lasted for four seasons.

Both of these scenarios--split season and 1st place vs. 2nd place--can be accomplished using the custom playoff option under league setup.

[mjj55409]

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

As for when there were 3 Leagues i think the best choice is just to make 2 divisions under the American league or American Association and put the Aa in one and Ua or Pl in the other.

My preference is to make the UA and PL as separate major leagues. This makes the history display come out correctly (i.e., UA and PL stats are listed separately).

[BaseballMan]

Yeah i knew about the Temple Cup. I just ment for the most part like in the Natuonal Association years.
Id like to have the UA and PL ad separate leagues. However i need the NL or AL abbreviation in order for players to import to their teams. If AA & UA both have AL abbreviation it wont work. Or can the game import players for each league from a diffetent database location?

[mjj55409]

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

Id like to have the UA and PL ad separate leagues. However i need the NL or AL abbreviation in order for players to import to their teams. If AA & UA both have AL abbreviation it wont work. Or can the game import players for each league from a diffetent database location?

Ah, I see. I'm usually playing with fictional players, or if I'm using real players, I let the real players come into the free agent pool. I'm typically not that interested in playing with actual rosters.