Ballpark Factors

[BravesSince66]

Since the game doesn't import stadium information automatically when simming forward after the initial import, each historic stadium change currently has to be added manually. The critical aspect here is not the actual field dimensions of each stadium (I don't think) rather, it is the "Ballpark Factors" that directly affect the game engine. Can anyone explain how these factors are calculated. I can find plenty of historic stadium dimension info but that needs to be translated into ratio factors to properly orient the stadium within the game engine. As this is, in my opinion, even more important than historical schedules for extended historical sims, any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!

[redmarkYankees]

Try this.

[BravesSince66]

Originally Posted by redmarkYankees

Try this.

Wow thanks! This looks perfect. I'm going to encorporate it in my own "History of Baseball" historic sim and will attempt to update the spreadsheet as I go forward...making it available later for those that are interested in such (fundamental) minutiae. I only hope the formulas provided are still applicable to the new game engine.

[Unoriginal Name]

I've been trying to use that but I'm having a hard time finding values for distances down the lines. I could always go back and load a dat file I have for previous OOTP versions into say OOTP6 but surely there must be an easier way, right?

[Syd Thrift]

The book "Green Cathedrals" by Philip Lowry (I think) is probably about as good a source as you can find for this stuff. You might also check out www.ballparks.com.

[halos17]

I've not seen this book, but perhaps it may have alot of helpful information??

http://www.stats.com/store/store.asp?page=bsdd

[BaseballMan]

Originally Posted by BravesSince66

Since the game doesn't import stadium information automatically when simming forward after the initial import, each historic stadium change currently has to be added manually. The critical aspect here is not the actual field dimensions of each stadium (I don't think) rather, it is the "Ballpark Factors" that directly affect the game engine. Can anyone explain how these factors are calculated. I can find plenty of historic stadium dimension info but that needs to be translated into ratio factors to properly orient the stadium within the game engine. As this is, in my opinion, even more important than historical schedules for extended historical sims, any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!

Well i beleive the game just takes the park factor from the BF in the team.csv file. Problem is that the game uses that same number for hr avg dbl avg etc. You could take the PPF and the BF and avg them and then use the new numbers to overwite the BF that the game uses for the overall avg.
But as far as gathering data on dbls and triples there may be home/road stats from 1900-2006 in which you could take the amount of dbls and opp dbls at home and get your factor but i am not sure how you could do this without the data. I think you have to estimate a little.
What i was thinking of doing for some 19th century parks is something like this

Home team's total doubles /2= home teams doubles factor
(League doubles -Home team total doubles)/ total league teams = League doubles factor
Home team's doubles factor + League doubles factor/2 = doubles Factor
If the factor is too low i guess i could just add the doubles factor to a minimum doubles factor like say 50.
Its not perfect cause there is no way of knowing how many triples a 19th century team hit at home and gave up at home unless it is in one of those ballpark books or websites.
I could probably use the ballpark generator mod to get some dimensions where there is no data. But since dimensions are merely window dressing i dont know if i should bother with it.

[Garlon]

I would also suggest setting all park factors to 1.000 for every team since the DB's are not park-neutral to begin with. For example, Koufax's raw stats, which OOTP bases ratings on, were accumulated in part by pitching half of his games in Dodger Stadium which is a great pitcher's park. Now if you make Dodger Stadium a great pitcher's park in your simulation you are actually giving Koufax the same advantage twice.

[BaseballMan]

Originally Posted by Garlon

I would also suggest setting all park factors to 1.000 for every team since the DB's are not park-neutral to begin with. For example, Koufax's raw stats, which OOTP bases ratings on, were accumulated in part by pitching half of his games in Dodger Stadium which is a great pitcher's park. Now if you make Dodger Stadium a great pitcher's park in your simulation you are actually giving Koufax the same advantage twice.

I see your point but doesnt a batter have the same advantage or disadvantage? Isnt that part of home field advantage in a way.
You may be right about the double advantage but he also got his ratings from stats in hitter's parks so wouldnt he be at a disadvantage there? But even so i dont think Koufax would be unstoppable at home and lousy on the road because of his stats and ballpark factors alone. To me i just see it as Koufax's ability in the right situation. Like if Ted Williams and Joe Dimaggio had switched teams. The ballpark may effect their total stats but i think they both would have still had hall of fame careers.
I dont know you may be right but to me it would take away the ballparks identity. It would be like using one neautral park. That might be good if you want a completely even level but i prefer a player taking advantage of a ballpark or being at a disadvantage. To me it gives the game more flavor.

[Garlon]

Consider Coors Field as an example. Todd Helton puts up a good portion of his power numbers in that park. You put him back in a Coors Field environment and he gets even more power. His stats would first have to be park-neutral (normalized to a 1.000 park factor) before you can legitimately put him in Coors Field again, or in any other park with factors other than 1.000.

[Gil Thorp]

I'm pretty sure that at least one version of Ankit's DB is park adjusted.

[BaseballMan]

Originally Posted by Garlon

Consider Coors Field as an example. Todd Helton puts up a good portion of his power numbers in that park. You put him back in a Coors Field environment and he gets even more power. His stats would first have to be park-neutral (normalized to a 1.000 park factor) before you can legitimately put him in Coors Field again, or in any other park with factors other than 1.000.

Yes but Helton didnt determine Coors park factor by himself. I agree his ratings are determined partly by what he did at Coors Field but i am not so sure it gives him a double advantage. What about the players who didnt hit a lot of hrs at Coors Field? Does this mean they will hit 30hr+ every simulated year? Or what about players who played for different teams? If you take Helton and put him in Dodgers stadium, i guess he would be at double disadvantage. But to me thats just like life where players play better at certain ballparks. You might be right in that it gives a player a double advantage but i am not so sure that the 2nd advantage makes that big of a difference in a players overall simulated stats. I guess i could see it if you were trying to do an exact replay of history but i prefer the what if scenario.
Maybe we should try some tests just using imported historical seasons from the lahman database. Use no injuries but use fatigue because though wwe need the player to play the whole year he would still have some fatigue.
Keep the basice default settings as they relate to real life like the dh. Maybe dont allow trades and see how players like Helton do at Coors. Only play 10 different single seasons so his ratings are not effected by career development. Well anyways something like that. If a player benefits by having a couple more hrs i dont really see it as a problem but if he benefits by more than 5 in each season then it might be a problem.

[Gil Thorp]

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

Yes but Helton didnt determine Coors park factor by himself.

No, the league as a whole hits better there. Look at it this way. Player A puts up inflated offensive numbers playing in a hitters park with factors >1. His ratings are inflated when the game assigns them based on these numbers. Then
you simulate him playing in a park with factors >1 and his numbers get bumped upwards again.

[SandMan]

This set had all the parkdats for 1901-2003

Here are the dats that are used in OOTP6.5

I am not sure if these can be imported directly in to the new game....

[BaseballMan]

Originally Posted by Gil Thorp

No, the league as a whole hits better there. Look at it this way. Player A puts up inflated offensive numbers playing in a hitters park with factors >1. His ratings are inflated when the game assigns them based on these numbers. Then
you simulate him playing in a park with factors >1 and his numbers get bumped upwards again.

Yes but a players ratings are not assigned by his home ballpark alone.
Plus with injury ratings and other factors i dont think it really gives the player a big advantage unless your ballpark factors are way different than they were in real life. If they are close to the real life ballpark fiigures i think the players wont be effected too much. I ran a quick test season for 2001 when Helton hit 49 homers. I didnt change anything on the default historical
import for 2001 except turning off injurys and not allowing trades and Helton ended up with 42 homers. I didnt have a chance to really do an indepth look over 10 different seasons yet.

[turdfurgeson]

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

Yes but a players ratings are not assigned by his home ballpark alone.
Plus with injury ratings and other factors i dont think it really gives the player a big advantage unless your ballpark factors are way different than they were in real life. If they are close to the real life ballpark fiigures i think the players wont be effected too much. I ran a quick test season for 2001 when Helton hit 49 homers. I didnt change anything on the default historical
import for 2001 except turning off injurys and not allowing trades and Helton ended up with 42 homers. I didnt have a chance to really do an indepth look over 10 different seasons yet.

Yeah it would be interesting to see what happens if you ran 5 years of each, one with park factors set to 1.00, and the others adjusted to historical standards.
What is the distribution of "hitters" parks to "pitchers" and "neutral" parks. If these are lopsided to hitters or pitchers then you may really see some inflated stats.

[turdfurgeson]

But it would be cool to have a park adjusted database normalized, then to have all the park factors adjusted correctly. It would add another level of thought and strategy when deciding what free agents to sign or retain---Are there stats inflated or deflated from the park they play in?