Thank God... at least someone agrees with me.

drksd4848 · 07-10-2018, 10:31 AM

The Red Sox may be red-hot but Baseball is striking out in every way

I think this article says a lot of what needs to be said; not all of it - but a lot. If the players and the owners can't pull their heads out of their arses, I give MLB 10 years... at most. The repugnance of Major League Baseball has no bounds, and there is no bottom to how far down it has gone and will go.

If you don't believe me, go on to Youtube and dig up a MLB game from 30-40 years ago. It will be more than obvious to see how awful the game has become.

Orcin · 07-10-2018, 10:55 AM

It's an excellent article and hits the nail on the head. Strikeouts are killing the game.

drksd4848 · 07-10-2018, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orcin

It's an excellent article and hits the nail on the head. Strikeouts are killing the game.

Orcin,

I'm tellin ya, go to youtube and watch a Cardinals game from 1985. The difference in "watchability" is astounding. Night and day. I started doing it for warm and fuzzy nostalgia's sake, and it turned me against the game within 5 minutes. Like blistering hatred for what MLB has turned into...

OldFatGuy · 07-10-2018, 07:06 PM

And it's not just the strikeouts... it's the way they're changing the game. There are no CLOCKS in baseball. Yes, there is too much downtime in today's game, but you don't need a clock to fix it. The umpires already have in their authority the means to speed up the game. Every time the batter steps out of the box between pitches and unstraps and then re-straps both batting gloves if the umpire starts calling automatic strikes (and they CAN ALREADY DO THIS) that crap would end in a hurry. And that's the biggest extender of games (well that and the more and more commercials in between innings). But every single pitch takes longer than it used to because of the antics of the batter (and sometimes pitcher) in between pitches.

And this thing with Facebook has be so PO'd I'm ready to quit MLB. I PAY FOR MLB Extra innings and MLB/TV which is supposed to get me all of the out of market games. Not so on Wednesday's "Facebook" game where Facebook is the ONLY outlet to view that game. In fact, even if it's your home team (like if you live in Washington and it's a Nats game just like me tomorrow) you can't even get the game on the local channels like you do every other game. Screw Facebook. If I wanted to be on Facebook I'd already be there.

Yes... the game is changing and it's ALWAYS for the worse. Why? Because the deciding factor in choosing what changes to make is always MONEY and not THE GAME. Here's an idea MLB... put a great product on display and the money will take care of itself.

low · 07-10-2018, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldFatGuy

And this thing with Facebook has be so PO'd I'm ready to quit MLB. I PAY FOR MLB Extra innings and MLB/TV which is supposed to get me all of the out of market games. Not so on Wednesday's "Facebook" game where Facebook is the ONLY outlet to view that game. In fact, even if it's your home team (like if you live in Washington and it's a Nats game just like me tomorrow) you can't even get the game on the local channels like you do every other game. Screw Facebook. If I wanted to be on Facebook I'd already be there.

Tell me about it. I have a local channel that normally carries all Brewers games but so far this year I've already missed four of them because they were Facebook-only games. If I were a subscriber of MLBTV I would be pissed.

And ESPN isn't helping the MLB at all. According to them the NBA is the #1 sport in the world, and if they do mention baseball, it's constant Yankees and Red Sox diarrhea.

drksd4848 · 07-10-2018, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldFatGuy

Yes... the game is changing and it's ALWAYS for the worse. Why? Because the deciding factor in choosing what changes to make is always MONEY and not THE GAME.

I've always said this: The players do things to benefit the players, the owners do things to benefit the owners, but NO ONE will do anything to benefit the game of baseball.

*AND* you know how you can tell something is good for the game of baseball? Because it is something that will make both the owners and players miserable.

colourmebrad · 07-11-2018, 12:02 PM

The leisurely pace of baseball is one of the things I like about it, and I'm in the camp of thinking focusing on it is stupidity. The specific way Manfred is attacking it is hilariously dumb. Mound visit limits, give me break.

Whether analytics are creating a game where not enough action (balls in play, and non-homer base hits) happens, that's maybe a thing. As a Jays fan we are crazy boom or bust. Strand runners when we get them and we seem to score most of our runs on solo and 2 run homers. If teams were more often hitting singles and getting stuff happening on the bases, I'm not going to be mad about that.

As for competitive balance, get a frickin' salary cap like a modern sports league and reap the benefits.

brad

Southpaw · 07-11-2018, 12:36 PM

Funny you mention mound visits. Earlier this summer I volunteered to Coach my Daughter's 11-13 rec Softball team. Season went well, focused on fundamentals, safety and fun.

One night I noticed my Pitcher struggling, called time and went to talk to her, tell her some small things I noticed and gave her a breather.

As I'm walking back to the bench the Umpire says, "That's 1, you have 2 more Coach." I stopped and looked at her like she just told me I was wearing a tutu and said, "I'm sorry, what?!?" Our league never mentioned a limit on mound visits but this Umpire decided a 11-13, rec league was a good spot to institute it on her own.

Pace of play isn't the problem with the game, people's changing attention spans and a rise of the more hyper sports is.

mitchkenn · 07-11-2018, 01:17 PM

well, i heard rumblings on one talk show (can't recall WHICH one now) the players are starting to talk strike after this CBA is over. Good luck. Last strike nearly killed baseball. Another one will. i'm a die hard old time fan, from the early 60's. But i haven't watched a single complete game in three years now. Strike outs, no-one seems to know what the cut off man is for, or how to hit the other way to beat a shift (and NO don't ban the shift, ban the dummies that won't go the other way!) Yes, i agree, baseball is in a bad state. Common sense on how to play, on how the game should be played would go a long way, not legislation. i hated Bud Seilig moving Houston to AL and Brewers to NL (among a myriad of other things). Manfred's not making many points himself in my ledger these days.
Lucky we have an alternate universe here to get our baseball fix!

Orcin · 07-11-2018, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitchkenn

Lucky we have an alternate universe here to get our baseball fix!

SirMichaelJordan · 07-11-2018, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drksd4848

The Red Sox may be red-hot but Baseball is striking out in every way

I think this article says a lot of what needs to be said; not all of it - but a lot. If the players and the owners can't pull their heads out of their arses, I give MLB 10 years... at most. The repugnance of Major League Baseball has no bounds, and there is no bottom to how far down it has gone and will go.

If you don't believe me, go on to Youtube and dig up a MLB game from 30-40 years ago. It will be more than obvious to see how awful the game has become.

I think all American sports have gone downhill.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

drksd4848 · 07-11-2018, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitchkenn

well, i heard rumblings on one talk show (can't recall WHICH one now) the players are starting to talk strike after this CBA is over. Good luck.

Lock 'em out. LOCK THEM OUT. Seriously.

As soon as one of those thumb-sucking, bed-wetting, cry-baby, un-self aware baseball players even mentions a strike, there should be a pad-lock the size of Gibraltar on the front gate, with this note:

Hey, baseball player! You think the current CBA is unfair? Good. Go find some other sport to play. How about football? Maybe they can play your walkup music while they drag you off on a stretcher after you get decapitated at the 50-yard-line.

Baseball players are some of the most repugnant human beings in pro sports.

TBH, there needs to be a MAJOR correction in baseball - both with the players AND owners. A lockout may do some seriously damage to the game, but it will be repairable damage if a more HUMBLED, competitive sport comes as a result.

Quote:

Lucky we have an alternate universe here to get our baseball fix!

Amen to that brotha...

Trauma One · 07-11-2018, 06:38 PM

I've really enjoyed watching World Cup this go round, TBH.

And yes to the above, thanks to OOTP for this alternative baseball universe.

demjansk1942 · 07-11-2018, 06:53 PM

That's why I enjoy watching the cycling on nbc sports. Blue collar athletes who suffer enormously and you never know who will be the winner. Plus, the crashes are crazy. No clock and stalling. I love baseball but the game is dying.

Antonin · 07-11-2018, 07:12 PM

The article had a lot of good points, but complaining because "Boston’s clubhouse is populated by polite young men who are careful with their words, rarely interesting and never provocative" is a bit much. Would it be better to have a team full of jerks who get into bar fights and drop F-bombs on live TV? Would the writer rather have MLB cater to the short attention span crowd of in-your-face 20-somethings? I agree that MLB has major problems, but I don't want it to become like MMA or pro wrestling.

Hrycaj · 07-12-2018, 08:01 AM

I'm going to try and be as fair as possible. I agree baseball has issues. I too am nostalgic about the mid to late 80's because that is when I was introduced to the game and the last time the Tigers won a World Series.

It wasn't all roses though. That decade featured some of the worst looking stadiums to appreciate a game in. (I realize that most of those cookie cutter/turf stadiums were built in the late 60's and 70's) Those boring stadiums make watching games on YouTube hard to watch.

However, from the actual game perspective I am in line with most of the argument. Although watching a handful of games on Youtube and claiming that the game was so much better 30 years ago is a small sample size. Even if I tend to agree.

The real issue is the mindset of the game. What I notice is that clubs want you to see as many pitches as possible. That will elongate games. Conversely pitchers seem to look for ways to get batters to chase when they are up in the count by throwing non-competitive pitches in some cases. This also elongates the game. Each at-bat is taking way to long even if you eliminate the stepping out and adjusting of the cup NONE of them wear anymore (aside from the catcher....hopefully)

The solution is to bring back the flow of the game. I will use a YouTube reference here. Brooklyn Dodgers and the New York Yankees from I believe it was 1955. It was game 7 of the World Series. I was amazed at how so many batters simply came up and swung the bat. They saw a pitch and they hit it. I get my own argument of small sample sizes but that thread resonates through the decades of YouTube clips. Guys swung the bat.

So my question to all that care and have read this far. Is it time for baseball to make a revolutionary change? Has the game evolved to a point where we need to take take away a ball and strike from the at bat? A 3-2 count would force the hitters and pitchers to create action. Would that help self correct the game? Honestly, the thought is hard for me to wrap my arms around but is that just for nostalgias sake?

kcroyalgm · 07-12-2018, 10:24 AM

Shaughnessy is often a nutcase and usually controversial.
But in this article he is spot on.

drksd4848 · 07-12-2018, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hrycaj

The solution is to bring back the flow of the game.

That's the magic word... "flow". And reduce the pomp and circumstance.
People talk about "pace of play". The trouble is, now-a-days, there IS NO pace of play. Back in the day, the game had rhythm. You could literally set a metronome to the game. (musicians would know what I'm talking about). That's what allowed baseball to OWN the summer. That constant rhythm, the FLOW of the beat. I used to be able to set said metronome to Ken Colman's voice.

Here's a transcript of one of my tape recordings:

Two and one to Evans <beat> The outfield is shaded straight way <beat> Higuera works from the right side of the rubber <beat> He throws...<POP> Cut on and missed he chased a slider down and away

Notice the rhythm. The game could be three hours, four hours and nobody would give it a second thought. (although generally games back 35 years and beyond were less than three hours.) Today, the game drags on with no rhythm and it's pretty obvious how ponderous it has become.

pilight · 07-12-2018, 10:33 AM

The funniest part is how wrong the analytics have turned out to be. The current raft of walk/strikeout/homer hasn't increased scoring. Teams are averaging 4.42 runs/game, right in line with historical norms. In 1950 it was 4.93. It's just a different way to reach the same result. The team that leads the majors in walks is 11 games under .500.

The closer thing is the same way. Teams don't blow 9th inning leads any more or less often than ever. So far this season teams leading after 8 innings have won 95.5% of the time. In 1951, when about 1/3 of games were complete games, it was 95.8%.

drksd4848 · 07-12-2018, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilight

The funniest part is how wrong the analytics have turned out to be. The current raft of walk/strikeout/homer hasn't increased scoring. Teams are averaging 4.42 runs/game, right in line with historical norms. In 1950 it was 4.93. It's just a different way to reach the same result. The team that leads the majors in walks is 11 games under .500.

The closer thing is the same way. Teams don't blow 9th inning leads any more or less often than ever. So far this season teams leading after 8 innings have won 95.5% of the time. In 1951, when about 1/3 of games were complete games, it was 95.8%.

Yeah but... You're not factoring in their VORP. Or their rWARP. Plus, what about their Runs and Errors + innings Thrown / Assists + Runs + Dugout time + Errors + no Decisions rating? How are you going to have a clear picture of the value of those games in the '50s?

I'm pretty sure their post-game HERP percentage was the same. Only back then it was called CLAP rating.

07-10-2018, 07:06 PM	#4
OldFatGuy All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Northern Va., Loudoun County Posts: 1,867	And it's not just the strikeouts... it's the way they're changing the game. There are no CLOCKS in baseball. Yes, there is too much downtime in today's game, but you don't need a clock to fix it. The umpires already have in their authority the means to speed up the game. Every time the batter steps out of the box between pitches and unstraps and then re-straps both batting gloves if the umpire starts calling automatic strikes (and they CAN ALREADY DO THIS) that crap would end in a hurry. And that's the biggest extender of games (well that and the more and more commercials in between innings). But every single pitch takes longer than it used to because of the antics of the batter (and sometimes pitcher) in between pitches. And this thing with Facebook has be so PO'd I'm ready to quit MLB. I PAY FOR MLB Extra innings and MLB/TV which is supposed to get me all of the out of market games. Not so on Wednesday's "Facebook" game where Facebook is the ONLY outlet to view that game. In fact, even if it's your home team (like if you live in Washington and it's a Nats game just like me tomorrow) you can't even get the game on the local channels like you do every other game. Screw Facebook. If I wanted to be on Facebook I'd already be there. Yes... the game is changing and it's ALWAYS for the worse. Why? Because the deciding factor in choosing what changes to make is always MONEY and not THE GAME. Here's an idea MLB... put a great product on display and the money will take care of itself. __________________ I believed in drug testing a long time ago. In the 60's I tested everything. - Bill Lee

07-11-2018, 12:02 PM	#7
colourmebrad Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 107	The leisurely pace of baseball is one of the things I like about it, and I'm in the camp of thinking focusing on it is stupidity. The specific way Manfred is attacking it is hilariously dumb. Mound visit limits, give me break. Whether analytics are creating a game where not enough action (balls in play, and non-homer base hits) happens, that's maybe a thing. As a Jays fan we are crazy boom or bust. Strand runners when we get them and we seem to score most of our runs on solo and 2 run homers. If teams were more often hitting singles and getting stuff happening on the bases, I'm not going to be mad about that. As for competitive balance, get a frickin' salary cap like a modern sports league and reap the benefits. brad Last edited by colourmebrad; 07-11-2018 at 12:04 PM.

07-11-2018, 01:17 PM	#9
mitchkenn Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Oregon, not by design Posts: 2,853	well, i heard rumblings on one talk show (can't recall WHICH one now) the players are starting to talk strike after this CBA is over. Good luck. Last strike nearly killed baseball. Another one will. i'm a die hard old time fan, from the early 60's. But i haven't watched a single complete game in three years now. Strike outs, no-one seems to know what the cut off man is for, or how to hit the other way to beat a shift (and NO don't ban the shift, ban the dummies that won't go the other way!) Yes, i agree, baseball is in a bad state. Common sense on how to play, on how the game should be played would go a long way, not legislation. i hated Bud Seilig moving Houston to AL and Brewers to NL (among a myriad of other things). Manfred's not making many points himself in my ledger these days. Lucky we have an alternate universe here to get our baseball fix! __________________ "This is my opening farewell " - Jackson Browne “They make a desolation and call it peace.” ― Agha Shahid Ali "Maybe she just has to sing, for the sake of the song - And who do I think that I am to decide that she's wrong." - Townes Van Zandt "I saw a young man leaning on his wooden crutch - He called out to me, 'Don't ask for so much' And a young woman leaning in her darkened door She cried out to me, 'Why not ask for more?' " - Leonard Cohen "Hello darkness, my old Friend ...." - Paul Simon Before Mays, before DiMaggio, there was Oscar Charleston. "All the lies about Babe Ruth are true." - Waite Hoyt Avatar is the late great Townes Van Zandt. rip. Last edited by mitchkenn; 07-11-2018 at 01:18 PM.

07-11-2018, 07:12 PM	#15
Antonin Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,420	The article had a lot of good points, but complaining because "Boston’s clubhouse is populated by polite young men who are careful with their words, rarely interesting and never provocative" is a bit much. Would it be better to have a team full of jerks who get into bar fights and drop F-bombs on live TV? Would the writer rather have MLB cater to the short attention span crowd of in-your-face 20-somethings? I agree that MLB has major problems, but I don't want it to become like MMA or pro wrestling. __________________ Cultural icons, gone but not forgotten: David Bowie, Lou Reed, William S. Burroughs, Tristan Tzara, Jack Kerouac, Allen Ginsburg, Jimi Hendrix, John Cage, Johnny Thunders (New York Dolls), Mike Hudson (The Pagans), Joey Ramone (Ramones), Stiv Bators (Dead Boys), Tomata Du Plenty (The Screamers), Joe Strummer (The Clash), Lester Bangs

07-12-2018, 08:01 AM	#16
Hrycaj All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,361	A couple of pennies I'm going to try and be as fair as possible. I agree baseball has issues. I too am nostalgic about the mid to late 80's because that is when I was introduced to the game and the last time the Tigers won a World Series. It wasn't all roses though. That decade featured some of the worst looking stadiums to appreciate a game in. (I realize that most of those cookie cutter/turf stadiums were built in the late 60's and 70's) Those boring stadiums make watching games on YouTube hard to watch. However, from the actual game perspective I am in line with most of the argument. Although watching a handful of games on Youtube and claiming that the game was so much better 30 years ago is a small sample size. Even if I tend to agree. The real issue is the mindset of the game. What I notice is that clubs want you to see as many pitches as possible. That will elongate games. Conversely pitchers seem to look for ways to get batters to chase when they are up in the count by throwing non-competitive pitches in some cases. This also elongates the game. Each at-bat is taking way to long even if you eliminate the stepping out and adjusting of the cup NONE of them wear anymore (aside from the catcher....hopefully) The solution is to bring back the flow of the game. I will use a YouTube reference here. Brooklyn Dodgers and the New York Yankees from I believe it was 1955. It was game 7 of the World Series. I was amazed at how so many batters simply came up and swung the bat. They saw a pitch and they hit it. I get my own argument of small sample sizes but that thread resonates through the decades of YouTube clips. Guys swung the bat. So my question to all that care and have read this far. Is it time for baseball to make a revolutionary change? Has the game evolved to a point where we need to take take away a ball and strike from the at bat? A 3-2 count would force the hitters and pitchers to create action. Would that help self correct the game? Honestly, the thought is hard for me to wrap my arms around but is that just for nostalgias sake? __________________ Click on my signature to read about the great game of baseball in Normington. Last edited by Hrycaj; 07-12-2018 at 08:03 AM.

07-10-2018, 10:31 AM	#1
drksd4848 All Star Starter Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,815 Blog Entries: 1	Thank God... at least someone agrees with me. The Red Sox may be red-hot but Baseball is striking out in every way I think this article says a lot of what needs to be said; not all of it - but a lot. If the players and the owners can't pull their heads out of their arses, I give MLB 10 years... at most. The repugnance of Major League Baseball has no bounds, and there is no bottom to how far down it has gone and will go. If you don't believe me, go on to Youtube and dig up a MLB game from 30-40 years ago. It will be more than obvious to see how awful the game has become. Last edited by drksd4848; 07-10-2018 at 09:32 PM.

07-10-2018, 10:55 AM	#2
Orcin Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Indiana Posts: 9,798	It's an excellent article and hits the nail on the head. Strikeouts are killing the game.

07-11-2018, 12:36 PM	#8
Southpaw Bat Boy Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 1	Funny you mention mound visits. Earlier this summer I volunteered to Coach my Daughter's 11-13 rec Softball team. Season went well, focused on fundamentals, safety and fun. One night I noticed my Pitcher struggling, called time and went to talk to her, tell her some small things I noticed and gave her a breather. As I'm walking back to the bench the Umpire says, "That's 1, you have 2 more Coach." I stopped and looked at her like she just told me I was wearing a tutu and said, "I'm sorry, what?!?" Our league never mentioned a limit on mound visits but this Umpire decided a 11-13, rec league was a good spot to institute it on her own. Pace of play isn't the problem with the game, people's changing attention spans and a rise of the more hyper sports is.

07-11-2018, 06:38 PM	#13
Trauma One Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 30	I've really enjoyed watching World Cup this go round, TBH. And yes to the above, thanks to OOTP for this alternative baseball universe.

07-11-2018, 06:53 PM	#14
demjansk1942 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 94	That's why I enjoy watching the cycling on nbc sports. Blue collar athletes who suffer enormously and you never know who will be the winner. Plus, the crashes are crazy. No clock and stalling. I love baseball but the game is dying.

07-12-2018, 10:24 AM	#17
kcroyalgm All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 634	Shaughnessy is often a nutcase and usually controversial. But in this article he is spot on. __________________ Up Kerry! 38 Time All-Ireland Senior Football Champions

07-12-2018, 10:33 AM	#19
pilight All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Where the Action is Posts: 1,776	The funniest part is how wrong the analytics have turned out to be. The current raft of walk/strikeout/homer hasn't increased scoring. Teams are averaging 4.42 runs/game, right in line with historical norms. In 1950 it was 4.93. It's just a different way to reach the same result. The team that leads the majors in walks is 11 games under .500. The closer thing is the same way. Teams don't blow 9th inning leads any more or less often than ever. So far this season teams leading after 8 innings have won 95.5% of the time. In 1951, when about 1/3 of games were complete games, it was 95.8%.