All-Star Game with one subleague and odd number of divisions

[bwburke94]

Simple enough request, right?

Obviously you're picking two All-Star teams from one pool of players (NHL-style) instead of one team from each of two pools (MLB-style) but there aren't any major reasons this can't be coded.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Nope. Seems simple, but requires some work. Won't happen this year, sorry.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Nope. Seems simple, but requires some work. Won't happen this year, sorry.

Just curious, for 1 subleague setups would it be really tough to make so an All Star team is selected without an actual game? Could even be just the best at each position.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Nope. Seems simple, but requires some work. Won't happen this year, sorry.

Can we eventually get an all pro team for leagues with no All Star Game though?

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Nope. Seems simple, but requires some work. Won't happen this year, sorry.

What about a schedule file-based system to handle All-Star Games? I've worked out some ideas that, if doable, would allow quite a bit more freedom for All-Star Games if OOTP can read and interpret the (relatively straightforward) changes made to parts of the schedule file structure. (And such changes only involve team ID numbers, not any other part of the schedule file structure.)

[mgom27]

3 Sub Leagues?
When Ramdomnizing Cities only cities like New York show more then once?

[Bigrod]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

What about a schedule file-based system to handle All-Star Games? I've worked out some ideas that, if doable, would allow quite a bit more freedom for All-Star Games if OOTP can read and interpret the (relatively straightforward) changes made to parts of the schedule file structure. (And such changes only involve team ID numbers, not any other part of the schedule file structure.)

As of my last communication with Markus and Andreas in which I asked if we could get 1 more option on the Schedule edit page which if checked, would allow the use of team IDs if one wanted to rather the the alphabetical sort we use now. Andreas said he and Markus had to talk as some things Markus has to do and some he does. Thanks for mentioning this. Always helps to have allies

[Padreman]

The Caribbean series for example pick all-star team after the series is done but it's just recognition only they don't actually play a game

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Bigrod

As of my last communication with Markus and Andreas in which I asked if we could get 1 more option on the Schedule edit page which if checked, would allow the use of team IDs if one wanted to rather the the alphabetical sort we use now. Andreas said he and Markus had to talk as some things Markus has to do and some he does. Thanks for mentioning this. Always helps to have allies

I did post my idea regarding All-Star Games in a beta forum thread, though it perhaps wasn't seen by Markus et. al. or the gist of it not fully understood. As it was only a suggestion I don't think there's anything secret about it so I'll post the idea here publicly so that others can comment upon it and add their thoughts.


***


In the schedule files Bigrod has done, he has included the All-Star Game directly in the list of games in the schedule. The entries typically look like this (minus the opening '<' and closing '/>' tags):

GAME day="105" time="1905" away="0" home="0" type="4"

The type number refers to the type of game, with 4 meaning an All-Star Game. The team IDs are 0, presumably so as not to be mixed up with the normal teams in the league. Now, I'm not certain if OOTP really uses this information, but if it could, it opens up the door to All-Star Game format customization without requiring any options to be included in OOTP's interface.

Make the team ID numbers for the All-Star Game a special number that OOTP recognizes, with different ID numbers indicating a different way for the teams to be grouped together, with the players for each All-Star squad being selected from those groups. I suggest using a four-digit team ID, starting with 99. The last two digits will indicate the particular team grouping scheme.


9901, 9902: These are the team ID numbers for the normal subleague vs. subleague ASG. 9901 is an All-Star team made up of players from teams in Subleague 1 while 9902 is an All-Star team made up of players from teams in Subleague 2.

9911, 9912: These are the team ID numbers for the normal division vs. division ASG in leagues consisting of two divisions. 9911 is an All-Star team made up of players from teams in Division 1 while 9912 is an All-Star team made up of players from teams in Division 2.


Now we get into new ASG formats.


9920: This team ID number means an All-Star squad made of players selected from all the teams in the league except for one. It is used in conjunction with an ASG that has a specific league team being one of participants in the ASG. An example from a schedule file would look like this:

GAME day="105" time="1905" away="9920" home="8" type="4"

What this means is that Team #8 ("8") from the league is one of the participants in the ASG while its opponent is an All-Star team made of players chosen from the remaining teams in the league ("9920"). In other words, the ASG is Team #8 versus the best players from the rest of the teams in the league. This format duplicates the one that was actually used by the independent Atlantic League in 2014. The name of the team with players chosen from the rest of the league would be name of the league plus All-Stars, e.g. "Atlantic League All-Stars" or "ALPB All-Stars" or even just "All-Stars".


9930: This is similar to the above, except that instead of a specific team being labelled as one of the ASG participants, this team ID number means the specific team leading the league on a specified date. Whichever club that is, it becomes one of the ASG participants and it faces a team made up of players chosen from the remaining teams in the league. The entry would look like this:

GAME day="105" time="1905" away="9920" home="9930" type="4"

The date on which the league-leading team is selected would be specified in a new addition to the header of the schedule file. I suggest something like: allstar_lead_day. This would complement the entry for selecting the date of the ASG. Thus the two entries would look like this:

allstar_game_day="105" allstar_lead_day="90"

This means the ASG itself takes place on day #105 of the league schedule, while the team leading the league on day #90 would be the specific league team chosen to be one of the ASG participants. If this format isn't being used then the lead day entry would be 0 (or the allstar_lead_day entry omitted altogether).

This All-Star Game format was a fairly common one in minors back when minor leagues were typically composed of only a single division.


9941, 9942: These team ID numbers divide the league into two geographical sections. 9941 is the All-Star team made up of players chosen from teams in geographical section #1 while 9942 is the All-Star team made up of players chosen from teams in geographical section #2. The teams comprising each geographical section can be determined automatically by OOTP by using the latitude and longitude coordinates of each member club's home city.

If a league is distributed more on an east-west basis (i.e. the difference in longitudes is greater than the difference in latitudes) then OOTP divides the teams up into equal groups based on longitude. One team would be "Eastern All-Stars" and the other "Western All-Stars".

If a league is distributed more on a north-south basis (i.e. the difference in latitudes is greater than the difference in longitudes) then OOTP divides the teams up into equal groups based on latitude. One team would be "Northern All-Stars" and the other "Southern All-Stars".

This All-Star Game format was often used in single-division minor leagues or those minor leagues containing three divisions.


9951, 9952: For an affiliated minor league where an equal number (or nearly so) of teams in the minor league have affiliations with each subleague of a two-subleague parent major league, the ASG teams can be made up of players from the teams affiliated with each particular subleague. 9951 would be an All-Star team made up of players from teams affiliated with parents in Subleague1 and 9952 would be a team made up of players chosen from teams affiliated with parents in Subleague 2. The name for each All-Star team would be derived from the name of its parent subleague. For example, "American League" or "AL All-Stars" for a minor league All-Star team featuring players chosen from the American League affiliates in that minor league.

This parent league vs. parent league approach for an All-Star Game has been used in the New York-Penn League (as well in other cases).


***


With these options leagues with only a single division or subleague, or those with three divisions, could now have All-Star Games. Users would have several different All-Star Game formats from which to choose. The advantage of being able to specify these more advanced formats directly in the schedule file is that they can be precisely set up without requiring yet more menu options being added to OOTP's already fairly numerous menu options. I envisioned this system as an 'advanced users' option hence doing it outside the game by editing the schedule file. But as 'advanced options' go this one would be a pretty easy for anyone to do.

More advanced options would involve being able to specify interleague All-Star Games. But that requires more changes (as two entirely separate leagues are involved, and there has to be some way of specifying a common All-Star date between the two leagues) and also involves associations. So I won't go into details about those for now.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by Padreman

The Caribbean series for example pick all-star team after the series is done but it's just recognition only they don't actually play a game

That's what I had in mind for my all pro team idea. For leagues which can't currently have all star games, let us choose 1 team (well, 25 players or whatever the roster is) as all stars, so they get the accomplishment and we have something to show who the best players in the league were that year.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

That's what I had in mind for my all pro team idea. For leagues which can't currently have all star games, let us choose 1 team (well, 25 players or whatever the roster is) as all stars, so they get the accomplishment and we have something to show who the best players in the league were that year.

I would love this. I'm currently playing a small 8 team random debut setup. 1 subleague, 2 divisions of 4. Selecting 25 All Stars in name only would be ideal. Like I said above, even if it only selects the top player at each position it would be cool.

[Padreman]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

I did post my idea regarding All-Star Games in a beta forum thread, though it perhaps wasn't seen by Markus et. al. or the gist of it not fully understood. As it was only a suggestion I don't think there's anything secret about it so I'll post the idea here publicly so that others can comment upon it and add their thoughts.


***


In the schedule files Bigrod has done, he has included the All-Star Game directly in the list of games in the schedule. The entries typically look like this (minus the opening '<' and closing '/>' tags):

GAME day="105" time="1905" away="0" home="0" type="4"

The type number refers to the type of game, with 4 meaning an All-Star Game. The team IDs are 0, presumably so as not to be mixed up with the normal teams in the league. Now, I'm not certain if OOTP really uses this information, but if it could, it opens up the door to All-Star Game format customization without requiring any options to be included in OOTP's interface.

Make the team ID numbers for the All-Star Game a special number that OOTP recognizes, with different ID numbers indicating a different way for the teams to be grouped together, with the players for each All-Star squad being selected from those groups. I suggest using a four-digit team ID, starting with 99. The last two digits will indicate the particular team grouping scheme.


9901, 9902: These are the team ID numbers for the normal subleague vs. subleague ASG. 9901 is an All-Star team made up of players from teams in Subleague 1 while 9902 is an All-Star team made up of players from teams in Subleague 2.

9911, 9912: These are the team ID numbers for the normal division vs. division ASG in leagues consisting of two divisions. 9911 is an All-Star team made up of players from teams in Division 1 while 9912 is an All-Star team made up of players from teams in Division 2.


Now we get into new ASG formats.


9920: This team ID number means an All-Star squad made of players selected from all the teams in the league except for one. It is used in conjunction with an ASG that has a specific league team being one of participants in the ASG. An example from a schedule file would look like this:

GAME day="105" time="1905" away="9920" home="8" type="4"

What this means is that Team #8 ("8") from the league is one of the participants in the ASG while its opponent is an All-Star team made of players chosen from the remaining teams in the league ("9920"). In other words, the ASG is Team #8 versus the best players from the rest of the teams in the league. This format duplicates the one that was actually used by the independent Atlantic League in 2014. The name of the team with players chosen from the rest of the league would be name of the league plus All-Stars, e.g. "Atlantic League All-Stars" or "ALPB All-Stars" or even just "All-Stars".


9930: This is similar to the above, except that instead of a specific team being labelled as one of the ASG participants, this team ID number means the specific team leading the league on a specified date. Whichever club that is, it becomes one of the ASG participants and it faces a team made up of players chosen from the remaining teams in the league. The entry would look like this:

GAME day="105" time="1905" away="9920" home="9930" type="4"

The date on which the league-leading team is selected would be specified in a new addition to the header of the schedule file. I suggest something like: allstar_lead_day. This would complement the entry for selecting the date of the ASG. Thus the two entries would look like this:

allstar_game_day="105" allstar_lead_day="90"

This means the ASG itself takes place on day #105 of the league schedule, while the team leading the league on day #90 would be the specific league team chosen to be one of the ASG participants. If this format isn't being used then the lead day entry would be 0 (or the allstar_lead_day entry omitted altogether).

This All-Star Game format was a fairly common one in minors back when minor leagues were typically composed of only a single division.


9941, 9942: These team ID numbers divide the league into two geographical sections. 9941 is the All-Star team made up of players chosen from teams in geographical section #1 while 9942 is the All-Star team made up of players chosen from teams in geographical section #2. The teams comprising each geographical section can be determined automatically by OOTP by using the latitude and longitude coordinates of each member club's home city.

If a league is distributed more on an east-west basis (i.e. the difference in longitudes is greater than the difference in latitudes) then OOTP divides the teams up into equal groups based on longitude. One team would be "Eastern All-Stars" and the other "Western All-Stars".

If a league is distributed more on a north-south basis (i.e. the difference in latitudes is greater than the difference in longitudes) then OOTP divides the teams up into equal groups based on latitude. One team would be "Northern All-Stars" and the other "Southern All-Stars".

This All-Star Game format was often used in single-division minor leagues or those minor leagues containing three divisions.


9951, 9952: For an affiliated minor league where an equal number (or nearly so) of teams in the minor league have affiliations with each subleague of a two-subleague parent major league, the ASG teams can be made up of players from the teams affiliated with each particular subleague. 9951 would be an All-Star team made up of players from teams affiliated with parents in Subleague1 and 9952 would be a team made up of players chosen from teams affiliated with parents in Subleague 2. The name for each All-Star team would be derived from the name of its parent subleague. For example, "American League" or "AL All-Stars" for a minor league All-Star team featuring players chosen from the American League affiliates in that minor league.

This parent league vs. parent league approach for an All-Star Game has been used in the New York-Penn League (as well in other cases).


***


With these options leagues with only a single division or subleague, or those with three divisions, could now have All-Star Games. Users would have several different All-Star Game formats from which to choose. The advantage of being able to specify these more advanced formats directly in the schedule file is that they can be precisely set up without requiring yet more menu options being added to OOTP's already fairly numerous menu options. I envisioned this system as an 'advanced users' option hence doing it outside the game by editing the schedule file. But as 'advanced options' go this one would be a pretty easy for anyone to do.

More advanced options would involve being able to specify interleague All-Star Games. But that requires more changes (as two entirely separate leagues are involved, and there has to be some way of specifying a common All-Star date between the two leagues) and also involves associations. So I won't go into details about those for now.

Hopefully you get a response from Markus and see what he said but I like those ideas you have

[olivertheorem]

I support the ability to select an All-Star team without holding a game, similar to the All-Pro teams in the NFL.