Statistics Question

Gai1997 · 01-23-2015, 01:50 PM

I was wondering if you guys added statistics such as WRC+? There are some others, but they escape my mind currently. Basically, if you could maybe give me a list on statistics addition or changes, that would be fantastic. I love statistics in baseball and I also love them in OOTP and want them to be as in depth as possible!

Also, I asked this question in a thread a couple days ago, and it's about WAR. As you know there are different types of WAR (Baseball Reference, Fangraphs, and I think Markus made his own type of WAR for the game if I'm not mistaken)

Is it possible, or has it been added that all 3 types of WAR are included in the game? I think it would add a cool dynamic to the game as currently in real life baseball we have to check both B-Ref and Fangraphs and if there are differences we have to think about it a bit more. Maybe add an option to which one we want to use or have them all listed? Just a small little thing that I think could add a nice dynamic to the game.

Last thing about WAR: It seems like Pitcher WAR is a bit broken. Pitchers are often putting up higher or similar WAR's to position players, which seems wrong, no? I'm pretty sure pitchers should be putting up lower WAR's than position players for the most part. Like in an online league currently, SP Corey Kluber has 7.4 WAR currently to Tulowitzki at 6.0. Both are the top players at their positions in the league and shouldn't the hitter be higher always in that regard in terms of WAR? Maybe I'm dumb or something, but that's how I thought it was. I'm probably wrong, but just something I noticed.

Lastly, I know FIP is currently in the game in the statistics section of the entire league, but I was wondering if you moved or could move it to a specific player's statistics page. What I mean by that is have FIP shown on this page here: http://i.imgur.com/MZVDLsB.png

Sorry for typing so much about this, but I really am curious about stats in the game as I just love to study and go in depth within the stats when looking at a player or deciding if to add them to my team!

Thanks for this game Markus & OOTP development team, this game is simply incredible and the best $40 I've spent in awhile (Now $75 with the pre-order) and the game has exceeded every expectation I've had! Thanks so much guys!

The Wolf · 01-23-2015, 01:57 PM

I would like to second the FIP suggestion.

Gai1997 · 01-23-2015, 01:59 PM

wOBA too. Have it where the specific player's stats are just like I suggested for FIP.

Bluenoser · 01-23-2015, 02:01 PM

I'd like to see FIP on that page too.

Will point out that if you select the dropdown titled "View", then select "Expanded Pitching Stats 2" you will see his FIP.

That's what I've been using.

Gai1997 · 01-23-2015, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

I'd like to see FIP on that page too.

Will point out that if you select the dropdown titled "View", then select "Expanded Pitching Stats 2" you will see his FIP.

That's what I've been using.

I was unaware that was even there. I need to pay attention more

So now that that question is answered, basically just need those other ones.

jaa36 · 01-23-2015, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gai1997

Last thing about WAR: It seems like Pitcher WAR is a bit broken. Pitchers are often putting up higher or similar WAR's to position players, which seems wrong, no? I'm pretty sure pitchers should be putting up lower WAR's than position players for the most part. Like in an online league currently, SP Corey Kluber has 7.4 WAR currently to Tulowitzki at 6.0. Both are the top players at their positions in the league and shouldn't the hitter be higher always in that regard in terms of WAR? Maybe I'm dumb or something, but that's how I thought it was. I'm probably wrong, but just something I noticed.

OOTP pitcher WAR is indeed broken. I did a lot of research on this in this post last year: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...-line-mlb.html. On Fangraphs and Baseball Reference, hitter WAR is defined at 57% of all WAR league-wide, with pitcher WAR the remaining 43%. In the test I did, OOTP position players accounted for about 41% of WAR league-wide, with pitchers at 59%. The problem seems to be that pitchers end up being systematically assigned ~60% more more WAR than they should, and position players are assigned slightly less than they should. It's not a huge problem if you know it exists, but it is annoying, and something that I hope is looked at in OOTP16.

I also suspect that hitters are also not getting "penalized" for caught stealing, as often the league WAR leaders are players who have very high stolen base (and caught stealing) totals, though I haven't tested this to date.

More than anything, I'd like there to be more transparency about exactly how WAR is calculated in OOTP, as it's not consistent with the Fangraphs or BP versions.

Bluenoser · 01-23-2015, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gai1997

I was unaware that was even there. I need to pay attention more

So now that that question is answered, basically just need those other ones.

WOba is there too when you look at batters.

There's a lot of stats in the splits and expanded stats drop downs. Everybody has their own favourites they'd like to see on the main page. Problem is, there's only so much space to put them. So how to decide which should be there and which should remain in the dropdowns is the problem. Not everybody wants the exact same thing.

RchW · 01-23-2015, 02:20 PM

I like these suggestions. Also want to point out that you can customize stats on the various tabs like pitching or lineups. See below. What I want is to be able to place these columns freely so that I could have FIP next to ERA.

Bluenoser · 01-23-2015, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaa36

OOTP pitcher WAR is indeed broken. I did a lot of research on this in this post last year: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...-line-mlb.html. On Fangraphs and Baseball Reference, hitter WAR is defined at 57% of all WAR league-wide, with pitcher WAR the remaining 43%. In the test I did, OOTP position players accounted for about 41% of WAR league-wide, with pitchers at 59%. The problem seems to be that pitchers end up being systematically assigned ~60% more more WAR than they should, and position players are assigned slightly less than they should. It's not a huge problem if you know it exists, but it is annoying, and something that I hope is looked at in OOTP16.

I also suspect that hitters are also not getting "penalized" for caught stealing, as often the league WAR leaders are players who have very high stolen base (and caught stealing) totals, though I haven't tested this to date.

More than anything, I'd like there to be more transparency about exactly how WAR is calculated in OOTP, as it's not consistent with the Fangraphs or BP versions.

This is from Markus on the OOTP15 Forum where 16 is being discussed:

Quote:

OOTP 16 will switch to the Fangraphs version of WAR for position players. For pitchers we already use their formula in previous versions.

Gai1997 · 01-23-2015, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

This is from Markus on the OOTP15 Forum where 16 is being discussed:

Well that's very good! Hopefully they switch the pitching formula.

And agreed RichW. I'd like to customize it too, just to make it easier for myself so I don't have to move around too much while looking. Just makes it better.

Matt Arnold · 01-23-2015, 02:46 PM

We've done well in work so far, so hopefully we will have time to run some tests to make sure that things are accurate.

The Wolf · 01-23-2015, 04:28 PM

I'd love to see OOTP use fWAR instead of its custom formula.

Markus Heinsohn · 01-23-2015, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf

I'd love to see OOTP use fWAR instead of its custom formula.

It will

The Wolf · 01-23-2015, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

It will

That's just amazingly wonderful. Thank you. Next up: historical minor-league teams.

SkittleMonster · 01-23-2015, 09:08 PM

Quote:

OOTP 16 will switch to the Fangraphs version of WAR for position players. For pitchers we already use their formula in previous versions.

Is it the exact same formula, or has it been fixed? Because whatever was used in OOTP 15 led to real wonky results.

01-23-2015, 01:50 PM	#1
Gai1997 Major Leagues Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 370	Statistics Question I was wondering if you guys added statistics such as WRC+? There are some others, but they escape my mind currently. Basically, if you could maybe give me a list on statistics addition or changes, that would be fantastic. I love statistics in baseball and I also love them in OOTP and want them to be as in depth as possible! Also, I asked this question in a thread a couple days ago, and it's about WAR. As you know there are different types of WAR (Baseball Reference, Fangraphs, and I think Markus made his own type of WAR for the game if I'm not mistaken) Is it possible, or has it been added that all 3 types of WAR are included in the game? I think it would add a cool dynamic to the game as currently in real life baseball we have to check both B-Ref and Fangraphs and if there are differences we have to think about it a bit more. Maybe add an option to which one we want to use or have them all listed? Just a small little thing that I think could add a nice dynamic to the game. Last thing about WAR: It seems like Pitcher WAR is a bit broken. Pitchers are often putting up higher or similar WAR's to position players, which seems wrong, no? I'm pretty sure pitchers should be putting up lower WAR's than position players for the most part. Like in an online league currently, SP Corey Kluber has 7.4 WAR currently to Tulowitzki at 6.0. Both are the top players at their positions in the league and shouldn't the hitter be higher always in that regard in terms of WAR? Maybe I'm dumb or something, but that's how I thought it was. I'm probably wrong, but just something I noticed. Lastly, I know FIP is currently in the game in the statistics section of the entire league, but I was wondering if you moved or could move it to a specific player's statistics page. What I mean by that is have FIP shown on this page here: http://i.imgur.com/MZVDLsB.png Sorry for typing so much about this, but I really am curious about stats in the game as I just love to study and go in depth within the stats when looking at a player or deciding if to add them to my team! Thanks for this game Markus & OOTP development team, this game is simply incredible and the best $40 I've spent in awhile (Now $75 with the pre-order) and the game has exceeded every expectation I've had! Thanks so much guys!

01-23-2015, 02:20 PM	#8
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: The big smoke Posts: 15,628	I like these suggestions. Also want to point out that you can customize stats on the various tabs like pitching or lineups. See below. What I want is to be able to place these columns freely so that I could have FIP next to ERA. Attached Images __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

01-23-2015, 01:59 PM	#3
Gai1997 Major Leagues Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 370	wOBA too. Have it where the specific player's stats are just like I suggested for FIP.

01-23-2015, 02:01 PM	#4
Bluenoser Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In The Moment Posts: 13,680	I'd like to see FIP on that page too. Will point out that if you select the dropdown titled "View", then select "Expanded Pitching Stats 2" you will see his FIP. That's what I've been using.

01-23-2015, 02:46 PM	#11
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 14,127	We've done well in work so far, so hopefully we will have time to run some tests to make sure that things are accurate.