64 bit for PC someday?

Sweed · 03-10-2019, 11:23 AM

So looks like XX is not the year, maybe 21?

With Steam and now PT are there thoughts or plans to offer 64 bit any time soon?

mitchkenn · 03-10-2019, 12:10 PM

'wouldn't it be loverly? long overdue.

Reed · 03-10-2019, 12:40 PM

And how about Vulkan.

I understand OOTP is coded 64 bit for MacBook and 32 bit for windows. I have played both and game play might be a hair smoother on the MacBook even with older hardware. The main difference I saw was fast simming. The 64 bit for MacBook seemed about 20% faster.

Shake Appeal · 03-10-2019, 01:47 PM

This would be a major improvement.

jimmysthebestcop · 03-10-2019, 02:39 PM

64 bit is needed and taking advantage of soon to be common 8 core 16 thread chips.

Should be able to vastly speed up sim time

Le Grande Orange · 03-10-2019, 05:30 PM

If I recall correctly, this question has come up before, and the answer then was that the game would have to be greatly rewritten to take advantage of 64-bit, and thus, it is not in the cards any time soon.

rudel.dietrich · 03-10-2019, 08:16 PM

OOTP has not had a major rewrite since OOTP 7
I think it is long overdue to take advantage of modern computing technology.

With the income gathered from PT OOTD would be able to hire a small coding team even if they were temporary to rework the game to drop 32 bit support and finally move in the 64 bit era and take advantage of such modern advances as systems with more than 4 GB of ram, multi core CPUs etc

mannysoloway · 03-10-2019, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reed

And how about Vulkan.

I understand OOTP is coded 64 bit for MacBook and 32 bit for windows. I have played both and game play might be a hair smoother on the MacBook even with older hardware. The main difference I saw was fast simming. The 64 bit for MacBook seemed about 20% faster.

I don't know if it's just my PC but after the end of the season it has to stop for like 5 minutes. This doesn't happen on a mac

Le Grande Orange · 03-10-2019, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

OOTP has not had a major rewrite since OOTP 7
I think it is long overdue to take advantage of modern computing technology.

If it's going to do that, then rewrite the financial model at the same time. A comprehensive rework there could set the stage for some fantastic possibilities in the future.

rudel.dietrich · 03-11-2019, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

If it's going to do that, then rewrite the financial model at the same time. A comprehensive rework there could set the stage for some fantastic possibilities in the future.

I agree
Finances and stadiums are the only thing holding OOTP back from what I ultimately look for when I play a sports management simulation. Actually feeling like the GM/Manager/Owner

The only game that is IMO close to perfect is Football Manager because it really gets in the weeds and nails finances which is the life blood of progressional sport.

a5ehren · 03-11-2019, 08:37 AM

The Mac version is 64-bit (at least nominally) because Apple makes you do it to get on their App Store. iOOTP has to be 64-bit as well for the same reason.

I would guess that the Windows version hasn't switched because they don't want to bump up the system requirements without a major reason to do so - the OOTP fanbase doesn't strike me as the most bleeding edge when it comes to hardware, so any change in system requirements means losing customers.

Sweed · 03-11-2019, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a5ehren

The Mac version is 64-bit (at least nominally) because Apple makes you do it to get on their App Store. iOOTP has to be 64-bit as well for the same reason.

I would guess that the Windows version hasn't switched because they don't want to bump up the system requirements without a major reason to do so - the OOTP fanbase doesn't strike me as the most bleeding edge when it comes to hardware, so any change in system requirements means losing customers.

I think Linux is too. Your assessment of taking care of the customer base is, I think, the only reason it hasn't happened. I asked now, in the OPT, because with 64 bit now, the norm(?) , and the advent of PT bringing in more players it seemed the time would soon be here?

Le Grande Orange · 03-11-2019, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

I agree
Finances and stadiums are the only thing holding OOTP back from what I ultimately look for when I play a sports management simulation. Actually feeling like the GM/Manager/Owner

The only game that is IMO close to perfect is Football Manager because it really gets in the weeds and nails finances which is the life blood of progressional sport.

All I can say is I've got a ton of real-world data I've put together over the years that can be used as reference.

jimmysthebestcop · 03-11-2019, 06:25 PM

Agreed with PT its time for 64 bit. Next version of Windows probably won't even be 32 bit compatible.

Honestly I have never seen Windows 10 32bit out in the wild. Not even Windows 8. All of the OEM's install 64bit because 4gb of ram is standard. Unless it is on some kind of substandard laptop/tablet weird type of thing.

Windows 7 had many 32 bit installs out in the wild. But support for it is dead. Too many security obstacles and its over a decade old now.

Standard business/home laptops have 4gb of ram at minimum sold these days. Even budget gaming computers have 8gb. Normal 16gb and high end gaming rigs have 32gb.

Not to have 64bit program is a pretty big weakness. That ram has to be leveraged.

Not to mention gaming desktops are minimum 6 cores these days. Maybe super low end fortnite boxes are i3 with Quad cores/threads.

But Intel is pushing the core/thread count up to keep up with AMD especially with Ryzen 3rd gen coming out this summer.

Non gaming laptops are a problem because there even i7 pre 8th gen that were still only dual core. To keep the laptops thing and cool.

rudel.dietrich · 03-11-2019, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a5ehren

The Mac version is 64-bit (at least nominally) because Apple makes you do it to get on their App Store. iOOTP has to be 64-bit as well for the same reason.

I would guess that the Windows version hasn't switched because they don't want to bump up the system requirements without a major reason to do so - the OOTP fanbase doesn't strike me as the most bleeding edge when it comes to hardware, so any change in system requirements means losing customers.

Steams hardware survey which I would judge to be a pretty accurate measure of PC gamers found that less than 4% of those who consented to a system scan are still using a 32 bit OS.
And 64 bit is not 'bleeding edge' anymore

Windows XP 64 bit was first supported in 2001.

I don't think there are that many customers to be lost.

Here is the Steam hardware survey data for those interested.
https://store.steampowered.com/hwsur...lcome-to-Steam

tejdog1 · 03-11-2019, 07:51 PM

I have an i3-8100 with 16 GB of RAM. 4 cores, 8 threads. I'd love to see 64 bit support.

a5ehren · 03-11-2019, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

Steams hardware survey which I would judge to be a pretty accurate measure of PC gamers found that less than 4% of those who consented to a system scan are still using a 32 bit OS.
And 64 bit is 'bleeding edge' anymore

Windows XP 64 bit was first supported in 2001.

I don't think there are that many customers to be lost.

Here is the Steam hardware survey data for those interested.
https://store.steampowered.com/hwsur...lcome-to-Steam

I agree, but I'm guessing the OOTP survey would look a a lot different from the Steam survey. It doesn't really seem to be the same demographic.

Would be nice if there was a 64-bit exe as an option for power users, but I can see why they wouldn't do that.

jimmysthebestcop · 03-11-2019, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a5ehren

I agree, but I'm guessing the OOTP survey would look a a lot different from the Steam survey. It doesn't really seem to be the same demographic.

Would be nice if there was a 64-bit exe as an option for power users, but I can see why they wouldn't do that.

It probably the same. Again its almost impossible to have bought a computer since 2010 without it coming with a 64bit OS installed by default.

Even if it did 32 bit Windows key work on 64 bit installs. Not just that but Win 7 keys will still activate Windows 10 installs.

The only systems that didn't come with 64 bit Windows installed by default were these sub $300 "netbooks" from several years back. And they all died out long ago. They lasted about 3 years for sale.

Wonder how slow OOTP will sim on future Apples once they convert to Arm chips and have to use a built in apple emulator for any x86 code. Intel predicts Apple leaves them within the next 2 years.

a5ehren · 03-15-2019, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmysthebestcop

It probably the same. Again its almost impossible to have bought a computer since 2010 without it coming with a 64bit OS installed by default.

Even if it did 32 bit Windows key work on 64 bit installs. Not just that but Win 7 keys will still activate Windows 10 installs.

The only systems that didn't come with 64 bit Windows installed by default were these sub $300 "netbooks" from several years back. And they all died out long ago. They lasted about 3 years for sale.

Wonder how slow OOTP will sim on future Apples once they convert to Arm chips and have to use a built in apple emulator for any x86 code. Intel predicts Apple leaves them within the next 2 years.

I just keep thinking back to the post in one of these other threads where a guy says it is taking a minute+ to advance his league day.

There's some seriously old hardware that is still (mostly) functional that can run this game. I have no idea if OOTPD have any kind of analytics/hw reporting built in, but I have to think they have data somewhere saying that moving the PC version to 64-bit isn't something they want to do.

Re: Future Apples, I'm guessing they will slap a requirement on the Mac App Store that all programs have to include native x86 and ARM binaries. There will be some kind of emulation layer for old software (probably a ~15% performance hit, virtualization is pretty good these days), but for new stuff it will probably just be a button in xCode when you go to build your project.

jimmysthebestcop · 03-15-2019, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a5ehren

I just keep thinking back to the post in one of these other threads where a guy says it is taking a minute+ to advance his league day.

There's some seriously old hardware that is still (mostly) functional that can run this game. I have no idea if OOTPD have any kind of analytics/hw reporting built in, but I have to think they have data somewhere saying that moving the PC version to 64-bit isn't something they want to do.

Most likely its because its going to be gigantic code rewrite. But its is incredibly hard to find any computer running a 32 bit OS.

You would really have to go out of your way to get Windows 32 bit. It just doesn't exist. OEM's have sold 32bit directly since Windows Vista days. That's over 10 years ago.

Windows 7 64 bit was more popular then 32 bit flavor. And for Win8 and Win 10 the 32 bit only exists for mostly special use case scenarios and not mainstream consumer or business computer models. They were for failed netbooks and some thin clients.

I couldn't even tell you when Intel/Amd made a 32 bit only main stream processor. 15+ years is a rough guess. The only recent 2010/2011 Intel processors that weren't 64 bit were the Atoms which were again the failed netbook processors.

So the only logically assumption we can make is it would be a big job re-coding OOTP. But it has to be done soon.

03-10-2019, 11:23 AM	#1
Sweed Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 6,104 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	64 bit for PC someday? So looks like XX is not the year, maybe 21? With Steam and now PT are there thoughts or plans to offer 64 bit any time soon?

03-10-2019, 12:10 PM	#2
mitchkenn Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Oregon, not by design Posts: 2,853	'wouldn't it be loverly? long overdue. __________________ "This is my opening farewell " - Jackson Browne “They make a desolation and call it peace.” ― Agha Shahid Ali "Maybe she just has to sing, for the sake of the song - And who do I think that I am to decide that she's wrong." - Townes Van Zandt "I saw a young man leaning on his wooden crutch - He called out to me, 'Don't ask for so much' And a young woman leaning in her darkened door She cried out to me, 'Why not ask for more?' " - Leonard Cohen "Hello darkness, my old Friend ...." - Paul Simon Before Mays, before DiMaggio, there was Oscar Charleston. "All the lies about Babe Ruth are true." - Waite Hoyt Avatar is the late great Townes Van Zandt. rip.

03-11-2019, 08:37 AM	#11
a5ehren Bat Boy Join Date: Feb 2019 Posts: 14	The Mac version is 64-bit (at least nominally) because Apple makes you do it to get on their App Store. iOOTP has to be 64-bit as well for the same reason. I would guess that the Windows version hasn't switched because they don't want to bump up the system requirements without a major reason to do so - the OOTP fanbase doesn't strike me as the most bleeding edge when it comes to hardware, so any change in system requirements means losing customers. Last edited by a5ehren; 03-11-2019 at 08:39 AM.

03-11-2019, 07:51 PM	#16
tejdog1 All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Danbury, CT Posts: 1,618	I have an i3-8100 with 16 GB of RAM. 4 cores, 8 threads. I'd love to see 64 bit support. __________________ It's amazing How you make your face just like a wall How you take your heart and turn it off How I turn my head and lose it all And it's unnerving How just one move puts me by myself There you go just trusting someone else Now I know I put us both through hell ~Matchbox 20, "Leave" Everyone knows it's spelled "TRAID", not trade

03-10-2019, 12:40 PM	#3
Reed All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 1,947	And how about Vulkan. I understand OOTP is coded 64 bit for MacBook and 32 bit for windows. I have played both and game play might be a hair smoother on the MacBook even with older hardware. The main difference I saw was fast simming. The 64 bit for MacBook seemed about 20% faster.

03-10-2019, 01:47 PM	#4
Shake Appeal Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 104	This would be a major improvement.

03-10-2019, 02:39 PM	#5
jimmysthebestcop Banned Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 1,728 Infractions: 0/2 (5)	64 bit is needed and taking advantage of soon to be common 8 core 16 thread chips. Should be able to vastly speed up sim time

03-10-2019, 05:30 PM	#6
Le Grande Orange Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Up There Posts: 15,413	If I recall correctly, this question has come up before, and the answer then was that the game would have to be greatly rewritten to take advantage of 64-bit, and thus, it is not in the cards any time soon.

03-10-2019, 08:16 PM	#7
rudel.dietrich Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Zürich, Switzerland Posts: 8,608 Infractions: 1/0 (0)	OOTP has not had a major rewrite since OOTP 7 I think it is long overdue to take advantage of modern computing technology. With the income gathered from PT OOTD would be able to hire a small coding team even if they were temporary to rework the game to drop 32 bit support and finally move in the 64 bit era and take advantage of such modern advances as systems with more than 4 GB of ram, multi core CPUs etc

03-11-2019, 06:25 PM	#14
jimmysthebestcop Banned Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 1,728 Infractions: 0/2 (5)	Agreed with PT its time for 64 bit. Next version of Windows probably won't even be 32 bit compatible. Honestly I have never seen Windows 10 32bit out in the wild. Not even Windows 8. All of the OEM's install 64bit because 4gb of ram is standard. Unless it is on some kind of substandard laptop/tablet weird type of thing. Windows 7 had many 32 bit installs out in the wild. But support for it is dead. Too many security obstacles and its over a decade old now. Standard business/home laptops have 4gb of ram at minimum sold these days. Even budget gaming computers have 8gb. Normal 16gb and high end gaming rigs have 32gb. Not to have 64bit program is a pretty big weakness. That ram has to be leveraged. Not to mention gaming desktops are minimum 6 cores these days. Maybe super low end fortnite boxes are i3 with Quad cores/threads. But Intel is pushing the core/thread count up to keep up with AMD especially with Ryzen 3rd gen coming out this summer. Non gaming laptops are a problem because there even i7 pre 8th gen that were still only dual core. To keep the laptops thing and cool.