Slightly Disappointed

[BronxBombers7]

I love when people complain about additions to a game, yet don't provide any type of feedback on what they would like to see in said game.

Personally I feel OOTP XX hit it out of the park. Animations are the best they have ever been in the series. We have live/daily updated rosters and player rating changes based on player performance for the 2019 season. Spray charts were implemented which is a minor thing, yet can be useful for the hardcore player. You also have the option to start a season at any point in the year. Lastly, I'm going to give Perfect Team a shot and just see how things go with it also.

Live services/rosters was actually the most welcome addition for me this year. It solves the issue of manually moving players around via trades, free agency, and other transactions to match what is going on in real life in 2019.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by CorinthiansIII

I don't think I'm wrong. I don't think Markus is a liar.

The Markus quote you referenced was in response to a question about if Perfect Team would replace the core OOTP game. He said no and that the team working on PT and team working on OOTP were separate.

My point is this: Markus has 'X' amount of money and resources to put toward the things he sees fit as a business owner. He's chosen to put a portion toward developing PT. He's chosen to put a portion toward OOTP.

I totally understand that. In fact, I'm hopeful that PT will open revenue streams, Markus and his team get filthy rich and that the extra money will make the core OOTP game even better!

And the PT team is hired with the assumption it will pay for itself. If they weren't working on PT they wouldn't have been hired. Nothing has been taken away from the core game or it's development. The core team continues to work on the core game.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by ohms_law

If they're spending resources on PT, that's resources not spent on OOTP itself. It's good for the company in terms of bringing growth, but to those of us with little or no interest in Perfect Team that's not terribly meaningful.

Saying things like "Seems either you are wrong or Markus is a liar" isn't very constructive, regardless.

Speculating erroneously isn't constructive, especially when Markus has stated time after time one has nothing to do with the other.

How much have they spent on PT? Do you know? Of course not, you start your post with "if".

Stay with the "sky is falling" theories after all they've always been right.

Rewrite of 2006 is the end of OOTP

MLB license is the end of OOTP

now

PT is the end of OOTP.

[Mariner and Giants Fan]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Speculating erroneously isn't constructive, especially when Markus has stated time after time one has nothing to do with the other.

How much have they spent on PT? Do you know? Of course not, you start your post with "if".

Stay with the "sky is falling" theories after all they've always been right.

Rewrite of 2006 is the end of OOTP

MLB license is the end of OOTP

now

PT is the end of OOTP.

Hmm, Markus maybe you had a valid point in closing this thread before, lol.

[endgame]

I'll suggest a pause as we teeter along a grey line here that can easily take on a different color and tone unless we redirect. I'll attempt to do so now, in the spirit of preserving this good discussion and exchange.

An expression of how the game sets with someone, in this case an initial slight disappointment, should always have its place, and its articulation of the game's shortcomings and merits are best limited to areas, features, processes, and the return to how-it-looks-from-here when sharing them, without assessing cause or blame. Those are origins rather than results and we're generally best served, and here in the forums for that matter, to examine results over cause, unless of course we're discussing anomalies of success or of malfunctions.

We do that with interface, text, graphics, mods, engine accuracy, and so forth. But we do ourselves and the conversation a disservice to leap or spill into the arena of motivations, owner-philosophy, and developer aims. Those don't belong to us and, aside from a quote or snippet we might use to support a particular argument, can't actually be known. It's always, always speculation. Because those origins possess their own how-it-looks-from-here vantage point worth the equal protection we afford ourselves to own our outlooks.

Let me say it, suggest it, a different way. If we focus on areas that produce certain reactions, we'll find pathways for those same areas to continue to grow- if we like them -or begin to grow because they've been highlighted for review. Spending any energy on business decisions like resource allotment won't further our highlights. It begins to compel one to take sides or defend positions. A when the divisive ensues, we diminish.

Whatever part of the game composes your direct experience, please always feel a sense of welcome to share those reactions. On the heels of that, other elements of the game, i.e. any given version of OOTP, don't have to weigh into your reactions. I have to believe there will, of necessity, always be an ever-shifting distribution of the coding efforts, design ambitions, and put-any-department-here. Yet our world goes on in that development process parallel to other's worlds. Collectively.

[Shoeless' Socks]

Here's a good example:

How difficult would it have been to fix the Player Development Update? It wasn't fixed. I saw NUMEROUS threads about it when 19 was released and through the year. The changes in that still do not match what your players are rated at. Player development is one of the most core functions of a baseball franchise.

But it wasn't fixed. But there's already been a hotfix for PT.

Do the math.

[BirdWatcher]

Originally Posted by endgame

I'll suggest a pause as we teeter along a grey line here that can easily take on a different color and tone unless we redirect. I'll attempt to do so now, in the spirit of preserving this good discussion and exchange.

An expression of how the game sets with someone, in this case an initial slight disappointment, should always have its place, and its articulation of the game's shortcomings and merits are best limited to areas, features, processes, and the return to how-it-looks-from-here when sharing them, without assessing cause or blame. Those are origins rather than results and we're generally best served, and here in the forums for that matter, to examine results over cause, unless of course we're discussing anomalies of success or of malfunctions.

We do that with interface, text, graphics, mods, engine accuracy, and so forth. But we do ourselves and the conversation a disservice to leap or spill into the arena of motivations, owner-philosophy, and developer aims. Those don't belong to us and, aside from a quote or snippet we might use to support a particular argument, can't actually be known. It's always, always speculation. Because those origins possess their own how-it-looks-from-here vantage point worth the equal protection we afford ourselves to own our outlooks.

Let me say it, suggest it, a different way. If we focus on areas that produce certain reactions, we'll find pathways for those same areas to continue to grow- if we like them -or begin to grow because they've been highlighted for review. Spending any energy on business decisions like resource allotment won't further our highlights. It begins to compel one to take sides or defend positions. A when the divisive ensues, we diminish.

Whatever part of the game composes your direct experience, please always feel a sense of welcome to share those reactions. On the heels of that, other elements of the game, i.e. any given version of OOTP, don't have to weigh into your reactions. I have to believe there will, of necessity, always be an ever-shifting distribution of the coding efforts, design ambitions, and put-any-department-here. Yet our world goes on in that development process parallel to other's worlds. Collectively.

So very much Amen to all of this!

[AlpineSK]

Originally Posted by BronxBombers7

I highly doubt Football Manager is as in depth as OOTP. Do they have real historic players all the way down to the minor leagues? And every stat and rating in relation to that particular player? Never played it so inform me if they do.

Not to cross talk about a game thats not OOTP but fm is ridiculously deep. Formations are completely customizable.. multiple player "roles" per postion that all interact in different ways.. player traits that effect a players play on the field and personality off... training.. scouting.. team dynamics... and all of thst existing for pretty much every footy league in the world. England alone is 6 leagues deep.

[BronxBombers7]

Originally Posted by AlpineSK

Not to cross talk about a game thats not OOTP but fm is ridiculously deep. Formations are completely customizable.. multiple player "roles" per postion that all interact in different ways.. player traits that effect a players play on the field and personality off... training.. scouting.. team dynamics... and all of thst existing for pretty much every footy league in the world. England alone is 6 leagues deep.

Thanks for the insight. I know about FM, but never bought it since I'm not really into soccer. Sounds like it actually is very in depth and immersive though.

[NoOne]

easy mistake with only good intentions -- the best possible mistake you can make.

mistakes are good. you don't learn when everythign is hunky-dory.

i don't think it requires an apologee, but that's awesome of you. this ain't a democracy, so to speak

in the past threads like that quickly degreade into something else entirely. lots of insecurity and nosense gets flung around as people circle the wagons and take sides needlessly. totally understandable behaviour, even if draconian in nature in the strictest definition and ignoring relevant context.

*************************************
About Player Update comment:
*************************************
just a test:

first, make not to save/auto-save/backup and see if it is consistent and repeatable without errors. then save and advance, save and advance and see if inconsistencies arise. also, possibly just on a day of a new report to save and re-check. (think that's when i saw this occur)

i swear i saw some potentials shift and re-sort after saving or backing up on a report day and with rosters and transaction screen loaded. something caused a re-assessment of the ratings -- maybe due to inaccuracy and how it is applied on a scouting report day? maybe going through that loop on a save/backup?

maybe, i was just sleep-deprived and my brain made things up too.

but, that would cause minor discrepancies between profile and last recorded report -- before next report, of course.

i did post this somewhere once. i made sure to point out i wasn't 100% certain, but fairly certain that things did magically change in sorting and values without advancing a single day... just too lazy to bother trying to figure it out for free LoL. it's a non-issue for me.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by Shoeless' Socks

Here's a good example:

How difficult would it have been to fix the Player Development Update? It wasn't fixed. I saw NUMEROUS threads about it when 19 was released and through the year. The changes in that still do not match what your players are rated at. Player development is one of the most core functions of a baseball franchise.

But it wasn't fixed. But there's already been a hotfix for PT.

Do the math.

Can you post this in the bug report forum? I am not aware of any issues with the player development report, and if it isn't properly reported I cannot do anything about it obviously.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by BronxBombers7

I love when people complain about additions to a game, yet don't provide any type of feedback on what they would like to see in said game.

Exactly. When you look at our recent customer survey, where over 12,000 customers replied, the top 5 requested features / improvements were (up to 2 could be selected out of a list of 10):

1) Improved simulation engine - 32.45% -> Implemented in OOTP 20.
2) Improved 3D in-game action - 29.73% -> Implemented in OOTP 20.
3) Improved trade AI - 22.12% -> Implemented in OOTP 20.
4) Improved contract / finances logic - 19.55% -> Implemented in OOTP 20.
5) More Perfect Team features - 17.48% -> Implemented in OOTP 20.

I think we have made decent choices here, according to our customers. Really, I think the main issue is twofold, OOTP is already so massive that it is essentially impossible to add any more "shiny" new back-of-the-box features. Unless you guys want us to add more batflip animations. Number two is that there are tons of different player types, and all of them have their own little pet peeve issue they like to see improved, but we can not possibly tackle all of these all at once, because we are still a very small team and we have to make decisions. Things like "Ability to schedule games on neutral grounds in the schedule editor" may be important for you personally, but overall only 3 out of tens of thousands of customers care about this at all, so for us it is very far down in the priority list. I hope this makes some sense.

Overall the response to OOTP 20 we have gotten is overwhelmingly positive, people love the game. And, the release has been absolutely rock-solid, only very few issues were reported, we can proudly say this was our best launch ever and considering the complexity of the product it's nothing short of a miracle. Just my 0.02

[Gerry58]

[QUOTE=BronxBombers7;4459294]Thanks for the insight. I know about FM, but never bought it since I'm not really into soccer. Sounds like it actually is very in depth and immersive though.[/QUO

Yes it is but let me tell you that they have the same amount (and some more) of endless discussions about bugs, how the game is 'disappointing' or plainly 'sucks' and so on

[phenom]

There's still no pie.

[highandoutside]

This is a baseball simulation game. It is a product which has a main, hardcore client base of longtime baseball sim hobbyists. If you care more about ultra-fancy 3D and a bunch of bells and whistles, which have nothing to do with replicating a realistic baseball universe, then there are other products out there for you.

I haven't bought this years' edition yet, but I surely will. I support this company because it has brought this hobby far beyond anything I could have dreamed of when I was playing with Strat-o-matic cards 35 years ago. It is the only game in town for those of us who want a realistic baseball management experience, and Markus and company always deliver.

I'm thrilled the development team worked on things under-the-hood, because that is the backbone of the experience. Without that, literally nothing else is worth having.

Criticisms of the game are fine, but I find many of the complaints are over-the-top and written in a tone that is completely unhinged and uncivil. We are largely spoiled by OOTP, and some of you sure are acting like it.

[Shake Appeal]

Originally Posted by Gerry58

Yes it is but let me tell you that they have the same amount (and some more) of endless discussions about bugs, how the game is 'disappointing' or plainly 'sucks' and so on

As someone who plays both games, interacts with both fanbases, and observes the behavior of both developers ... OOTP Developments are doing a far better job right now of listening to players, responding to them, and evolving the game. It helps that they're a smaller, more nimble entity, but hoo boy, it's night and day.

[Shake Appeal]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Unless you guys want us to add more batflip animations.

I do. Many more.

[davor999]

FM and OOTP are both fantastic games. Grateful to have both. FM is perhaps more polished, but OOTP benefits in many other ways because it’s creative genius is still so engaged.
Now I just wish someone would please make a football game anywhere near as good as either of these games.

[low]

OOTPD doesn't have Sega breathing down their necks. That's a good thing.

[HiDesertAce]

I bought OOTP19 as a lark right around new years. $5.

since then I have spent at least 300 times that initial $5 on PT. and i am hooked

PT is going to pay for all the changes you want to see in OOTP imo.

I understand the long time players frustration with the upgrades they want. But if it wasn't for PT i don't think the game changes that much in the future.