4-3-6 double play

Dyzalot · 01-30-2019, 04:07 PM

So I've seen this result twice now in the last 100 or so games that I've observed. The first time I saw it, I was quite surprised. I just chalked it up to some kind of super rare result that I just happened upon. However, seeing it a 2nd time so soon makes me wonder if some kind of weird "bug" was introduced recently. I've never witnessed this result watching MLB myself nor have I ever heard of it happening. It is rare enough for a first baseman to tag 1st and throw down to 2nd to complete a double play with a tag at 2nd. The idea that there might be enough time for a 2nd baseman to field a grounder, throw to 1st for the force and then have the first baseman "turn" the double play by throwing down to 2nd for the tag by the shortstop seems a bit far fetched to me. I'm sure it may have happened at some point in the past where a runner tripped or got confused about a liner that was trapped but I don't think we should be seeing this play very often, if at all. Was wondering if anyone else was seeing this result pop up?

joefromchicago · 01-30-2019, 05:10 PM

It's rare enough that, when it happens, it's worth commenting upon. Is it possible that players in a defensive shift might be more likely to be involved in a 4-3-6 double play, given that the second baseman is stationed a lot closer to first base?

Matt Arnold · 01-30-2019, 05:22 PM

It should probably be more rare than we have it. Although I wonder if this is now going to spin me down a rabbit hole as I wonder if all our DP variation odds are right...

Dyzalot · 01-30-2019, 05:25 PM

I would say that the shift makes it less likely if we are assuming that the 2nd baseman is playing more like a roving short outfielder in right field. Also notice the scenario in your example where this was accomplished. Something had to happen that held the runner up between first and second so that there was even time to complete this unconventional double play. I'm not sure that the shift is conducive to that happening either if again the 2nd baseman is playing deeper than normal. Seeing as how these two instances are the only ones I've observed in OOTP in ten years of playing the game, I'm going to make the educated guess that something was introduced recently in the coding that is making it a possible result on a ground ball to the 2nd baseman with a runner on 1st and less than two outs. And just as a note in reference to your question about the shift, these both happened with standard defensive alignments in place.

Dyzalot · 01-30-2019, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

It should probably be more rare than we have it. Although I wonder if this is now going to spin me down a rabbit hole as I wonder if all our DP variation odds are right...

Just from pure observation, I haven't noticed anything unusual apart from this example. I have noticed that you guys have recently made it more likely for the third baseman to be able to step on third and throw to 1st for a double play which I do believe was lacking in the past. I would say that the only glaring omission I have seen as far as possible results go on double play ground balls would be a result where the play is made at 2nd but there is an error on the throw to 1st which then allows the batter to end up at 2nd. It certainly isn't a common outcome in MLB but I don't think I've ever seen that result in ten years of playing OOTP and I notice its absence. Other than that, nothing stands out to me from pure observation.

joefromchicago · 01-30-2019, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

It should probably be more rare than we have it. Although I wonder if this is now going to spin me down a rabbit hole as I wonder if all our DP variation odds are right...

How about the 2-5-3-4-2-6 double-play?

Cryomaniac · 01-31-2019, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

It should probably be more rare than we have it. Although I wonder if this is now going to spin me down a rabbit hole as I wonder if all our DP variation odds are right...

As a related matter of interest, do you have 9-3 putouts in the game?

Drstrangelove · 01-31-2019, 03:47 PM

It was not uncommon in the first dead ball era for an RF or CF to throw out runners at first.

jeffw3000 · 01-31-2019, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

As a related matter of interest, do you have 9-3 putouts in the game?

In Pittsburgh. with our short right field, you see the 9-3 out several times a year. There are also numerous off the wall singles in Pittsburgh.

jeffw3000 · 01-31-2019, 05:32 PM

I would say in the 200 or so games I watch a year, I do see the 4-3-6 DP at least once or twice a year.

Dyzalot · 01-31-2019, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffw3000

I would say in the 200 or so games I watch a year, I do see the 4-3-6 DP at least once or twice a year.

I'd be surprised if that's the actual frequency. I'm 49 and have only seen it a couple of times my entire life. Also, it would seem that according to this article, it is very rare since they didn't even include it in the list.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/2...s-double-plays

Drstrangelove · 02-01-2019, 03:57 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2bdu7W3kTc

Just for those that want to see many runners thrown out at first from the OF.

Drstrangelove · 02-01-2019, 03:57 AM

duplicate

BIG17EASY · 02-01-2019, 09:06 AM

Yeah, but does OOTP have this in the game?

https://youtu.be/iD0mRZ2B37Y

jeffw3000 · 02-01-2019, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

Yeah, but does OOTP have this in the game?

https://youtu.be/iD0mRZ2B37Y

I doubt it does, and that is one I have never seen.

joefromchicago · 02-01-2019, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

Yeah, but does OOTP have this in the game?

https://youtu.be/iD0mRZ2B37Y

Didn't Carlton Fisk do something like that when he was with the White Sox?

Dyzalot · 02-01-2019, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

Didn't Carlton Fisk do something like that when he was with the White Sox?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqupB5DpnU4

joefromchicago · 02-01-2019, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqupB5DpnU4

Yes, that's it exactly. So we should definitely expect both the 9-4-2 and 8-2 double-plays in OOTP20

r0nster · 02-01-2019, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

Yes, that's it exactly. So we should definitely expect both the 9-4-2 and 8-2 double-plays in OOTP20

I have seen it many times but the game never calls it a 9-4-2 double (and 8-2) play or even a straight throwout at the plate on a tag up either the 2B (or SS) never gets the assist when the throw is cut off and continued.

joefromchicago · 02-01-2019, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r0nster

I have seen it many times but the game never calls it a 9-4-2 double (and 8-2) play or even a straight throwout at the plate on a tag up either the 2B (or SS) never gets the assist when the throw is cut off and continued.

That's an interesting point. In the play-by-play, it goes something like: "the runner attempts to score - he is OUT." I presume the catcher is credited with a putout. Does anyone else get an assist?

01-30-2019, 04:07 PM	#1
Dyzalot All Star Starter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,735	4-3-6 double play So I've seen this result twice now in the last 100 or so games that I've observed. The first time I saw it, I was quite surprised. I just chalked it up to some kind of super rare result that I just happened upon. However, seeing it a 2nd time so soon makes me wonder if some kind of weird "bug" was introduced recently. I've never witnessed this result watching MLB myself nor have I ever heard of it happening. It is rare enough for a first baseman to tag 1st and throw down to 2nd to complete a double play with a tag at 2nd. The idea that there might be enough time for a 2nd baseman to field a grounder, throw to 1st for the force and then have the first baseman "turn" the double play by throwing down to 2nd for the tag by the shortstop seems a bit far fetched to me. I'm sure it may have happened at some point in the past where a runner tripped or got confused about a liner that was trapped but I don't think we should be seeing this play very often, if at all. Was wondering if anyone else was seeing this result pop up?

01-30-2019, 05:10 PM	#2
joefromchicago Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 3,630	It's rare enough that, when it happens, it's worth commenting upon. Is it possible that players in a defensive shift might be more likely to be involved in a 4-3-6 double play, given that the second baseman is stationed a lot closer to first base? __________________ American-Ethnic (and Canadian) Namesets Historical Minor League Schedules 1870s City/Team Nickname Randomizers "It's Usually Sunny in Philadelphia" weather mod

01-30-2019, 05:22 PM	#3
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 14,145	It should probably be more rare than we have it. Although I wonder if this is now going to spin me down a rabbit hole as I wonder if all our DP variation odds are right...

01-30-2019, 05:25 PM	#4
Dyzalot All Star Starter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,735	I would say that the shift makes it less likely if we are assuming that the 2nd baseman is playing more like a roving short outfielder in right field. Also notice the scenario in your example where this was accomplished. Something had to happen that held the runner up between first and second so that there was even time to complete this unconventional double play. I'm not sure that the shift is conducive to that happening either if again the 2nd baseman is playing deeper than normal. Seeing as how these two instances are the only ones I've observed in OOTP in ten years of playing the game, I'm going to make the educated guess that something was introduced recently in the coding that is making it a possible result on a ground ball to the 2nd baseman with a runner on 1st and less than two outs. And just as a note in reference to your question about the shift, these both happened with standard defensive alignments in place.

01-31-2019, 03:47 PM	#8
Drstrangelove Major Leagues Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 346	It was not uncommon in the first dead ball era for an RF or CF to throw out runners at first.

01-31-2019, 05:32 PM	#10
jeffw3000 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 296	I would say in the 200 or so games I watch a year, I do see the 4-3-6 DP at least once or twice a year.

02-01-2019, 03:57 AM	#12
Drstrangelove Major Leagues Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 346	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2bdu7W3kTc Just for those that want to see many runners thrown out at first from the OF.

02-01-2019, 09:06 AM	#14
BIG17EASY Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,291	Yeah, but does OOTP have this in the game? https://youtu.be/iD0mRZ2B37Y