Issues with players and rosters

burnjericho · 03-22-2019, 08:48 PM

It seems like there are as many or more goofy player/roster issues than last year. Has anyone else noticed that?

For example, over the last 2 years Travis Shaw has started 241 games at 3B, 36 games at 2B (all last year) and 3 games at 1B. OOTP19 and OOTP20 both had him as a 1st baseman. Plus, his defensive rating at 3B is a 45, despite being a Gold Glove finalist. Or how Keston Hiura has ratings at 1B and LF despite never playing a single inning at either position. Or all the pitchers who have the wrong pitches (Wade Miley threw his cutter over 40% of the time last year, but he doesn't have a cutter in game - and Patrick Corbin does have a fastball!). Or their velocity isn't right (for example, Greg Holland hasn't averaged 94 MPH on his fastball since 2015, but his velocity is 94-96. Pat Corbin's fastest pitch averaged 91MPH, but his in game velocity is 93-95).

I don't understand this stuff, it's almost like the rosters are created by people who neither watch baseball nor make much of an effort to research the players.

Chomps · 03-22-2019, 11:05 PM

I have seen similar issues so far. What is a good reference to find the data on players that you mentioned in your post?

The Yurpman · 03-23-2019, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnjericho

I don't understand this stuff, it's almost like the rosters are created by people who neither watch baseball nor make much of an effort to research the players.

Was there really a need for this sentence? The rest of your post made sense, and the roster team will no doubt make changes throughout the year, as always. Why insult them? Do you realize the vast amount of players they have to create? The entire MLB and all of its farm teams, and about a dozen foreign leagues. If they get a handful of players off, just let them know and I'm sure they'll make a fix if need be. Or you can go into commish mode and fix it yourself. That sentence was just not necessary.

burnjericho · 03-23-2019, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chomps

I have seen similar issues so far. What is a good reference to find the data on players that you mentioned in your post?

MLB.COM tracks all that statcast data (https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/statcast_leaderboard)
And Fangraphs (www.fangraphs.com) has quite a bit of information as well. Their Pitch f/x stuff is particularly good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Yurpman

Was there really a need for this sentence? The rest of your post made sense, and the roster team will no doubt make changes throughout the year, as always. Why insult them?

I feel it is wholeheartedly warranted - it is a manner of relaying how disappointed I am with this roster set. When the up-to-date and accurate rosters are part of the advertising, then that should be what is provided. One shouldn't need to edit things to provide an advertised feature. Pitch arsenals and velocities, for example, should be correct. And I would challenge the definition of "handful", as there are quite a few head-scratching things.
I don't think I'll be holding out hope for the roster team to fix this, they didn't last year - they didn't in 18, or 17, or 16.....
I have purchased 15 straight versions of OOTP, I have been on this forum since 2012, and this was my first comment... I feel insulted that I wasn't provided what was advertised. I am that disappointed in the volume of inaccuracies in this roster set. There are several things that don't make sense - not just ratings or velocities and such. Incorrect positions, incorrect and missing injuries, etc.

Orioles1966 · 03-23-2019, 11:03 AM

In past versions of OOTP my teams liked playing Freddie Patek at first base and I doubt he ever played there(even in Little League).

Another one is Rico Carty catching.

Lukas Berger · 03-23-2019, 12:29 PM

There's definitely some validity to the complaint.

Basically we had a big change in circumstances with the rosters a couple years ago when we tragically and unexpectedly lost haveband, who had run the roster team so well for so many years and I moved from purely being a roster volunteer to working full-time here and doing a little bit of everything. So while that gave me lots of time to spend on the game, it paradoxically actually decreased some of the time I could spend on rosters.

So the process for the last couple years has been a bit more chaotic and a few things that need yearly updating (like pitcher's repertoires and velocities) have not gotten comprehensively updated, they've just been done piecemeal.

So we're definitely working on figuring out better ways to streamline this and get the yearly stuff that needs to updated done along with all the grunt work of adding and updating tens of thousands of prospects and draft eligible players and international guys as well.

One of the complaints above, the positions, we actually changed how that was done this year and did it by algorithm, rather than by hand like in the past. Only thing is, there were still some anomalies there we have to sort out by hand. Some of them we've gotten to, some are still on the list to do.

We're also working on other things that were mentioned. For example, right now I'm working on a comprehensive update of all pitchers on 40-man rosters and and their velocities/pitches thrown, based on Brooks Baseball's data. You'll see some results of that in the build next week for a bunch of teams and full results within a couple weeks, if all goes well.

Some other things, like fully updating injuries, there's just too much chaos and uncertainty around those at this time of the year, with different sources reporting different things, to get them 100% done for the initial release. Once we see what the OD rosters actually are, and get those set in-game, then we can also set all the injuries correctly. For now, they're nothing more than placeholders really.

This is really the same for everything with the rosters. Even in a perfect world, we cannot ship them 100% perfect on release day, because all the information needed comes too quickly and too rapidly in a very short time period, which coincides with the period when we're also working on the development and testing of the new game.

Places like fangraphs have not even finished their team prospect lists yet for instance. It takes a couple months beyond release to collect and incorporate all the data we get from the start of the season and the offseason.

So typically around July or August, the rosters are much more polished and finished than they are at release. If you actually compared the amount that changes during that time period, you'll see it's an enormous amount of data. Of course that doesn't mean we get everything, we're only human after all and we depend primarily on volunteers.

This is why every year we ask for help with stuff you guys noticed that's wrong:

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=299987

When you see something like Holland's velocity being outdated, or Keston Hiura still having experience at positions from college, please pop in there and post and let us know. We do monitor that thread religiously and incorporate the changes suggested there regularly.

Anyway, just know we take the rosters very seriously and are very passionate about them We are always working on updating them. I feel very safe in saying that there's certainly no other game in the world, other than Football Manager, with a database that's as comprehensive and accurate in covering their sport as OOTP covers baseball.

But we're not perfect, and we do miss stuff. We can always use some help in improving things even more. Sometimes in the huge breadth of our coverage, a bit of depth can get lost. We can be so focused on getting the Czech League in the game, we miss updating Greg Holland's velocity change. So when you see something wrong, please help us out and post in the thread I linked above and say something.

Does that help explain things a bit? Hopefully so.

burnjericho · 03-23-2019, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

Does that help explain things a bit? Hopefully so.

Very much so, thank you. It definitely helps me understand why some players don't reflect developments from last season, or the last couple seasons. I never knew of the roster thread in the bug report forum, so I appreciate the link. I will definitely contribute - I definitely notice things. As another poster above recommended - I normally do correct the database myself, but that would mean the loss of the live rosters (which is probably the most exciting new feature, to me).

Lukas Berger · 03-23-2019, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnjericho

Very much so, thank you. It definitely helps me understand why some players don't reflect developments from last season, or the last couple seasons. I never knew of the roster thread in the bug report forum, so I appreciate the link. I will definitely contribute - I definitely notice things. As another poster above recommended - I normally do correct the database myself, but that would mean the loss of the live rosters (which is probably the most exciting new feature, to me).

Thanks! We really need people that notice things and care about getting them right. So please do help out by posting the stuff you notice. It's much appreciated and makes the set better for you and for everyone else as well.

btw, I've already adjusted pretty much everything you mentioned in the main post, so no need to post that again.

For Corbin, and you'll notice this with other pitchers too, we don't always give pitchers both a sinker and a regular 4-seam fb even if they throw a 2 and a 4 seam. It really depends how similar the pitches are and especially how much of a ground ball pitcher the pitcher is. And we make decisions on that on a case by case basis, so it might not always feel 100% consistent.

I did add in a 4 seamer for Corbin since he's not really a true sinkerballer. I think it makes sense for him to have both pitches, but that's always a tough judgement call to make for guys with 2 and 4 seamers.

03-22-2019, 08:48 PM	#1
burnjericho Bat Boy Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 8	Issues with players and rosters It seems like there are as many or more goofy player/roster issues than last year. Has anyone else noticed that? For example, over the last 2 years Travis Shaw has started 241 games at 3B, 36 games at 2B (all last year) and 3 games at 1B. OOTP19 and OOTP20 both had him as a 1st baseman. Plus, his defensive rating at 3B is a 45, despite being a Gold Glove finalist. Or how Keston Hiura has ratings at 1B and LF despite never playing a single inning at either position. Or all the pitchers who have the wrong pitches (Wade Miley threw his cutter over 40% of the time last year, but he doesn't have a cutter in game - and Patrick Corbin does have a fastball!). Or their velocity isn't right (for example, Greg Holland hasn't averaged 94 MPH on his fastball since 2015, but his velocity is 94-96. Pat Corbin's fastest pitch averaged 91MPH, but his in game velocity is 93-95). I don't understand this stuff, it's almost like the rosters are created by people who neither watch baseball nor make much of an effort to research the players.

03-23-2019, 12:29 PM	#6
Lukas Berger OOTP Developments Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Nice, Côte d'Azur, France Posts: 19,896	There's definitely some validity to the complaint. Basically we had a big change in circumstances with the rosters a couple years ago when we tragically and unexpectedly lost haveband, who had run the roster team so well for so many years and I moved from purely being a roster volunteer to working full-time here and doing a little bit of everything. So while that gave me lots of time to spend on the game, it paradoxically actually decreased some of the time I could spend on rosters. So the process for the last couple years has been a bit more chaotic and a few things that need yearly updating (like pitcher's repertoires and velocities) have not gotten comprehensively updated, they've just been done piecemeal. So we're definitely working on figuring out better ways to streamline this and get the yearly stuff that needs to updated done along with all the grunt work of adding and updating tens of thousands of prospects and draft eligible players and international guys as well. One of the complaints above, the positions, we actually changed how that was done this year and did it by algorithm, rather than by hand like in the past. Only thing is, there were still some anomalies there we have to sort out by hand. Some of them we've gotten to, some are still on the list to do. We're also working on other things that were mentioned. For example, right now I'm working on a comprehensive update of all pitchers on 40-man rosters and and their velocities/pitches thrown, based on Brooks Baseball's data. You'll see some results of that in the build next week for a bunch of teams and full results within a couple weeks, if all goes well. Some other things, like fully updating injuries, there's just too much chaos and uncertainty around those at this time of the year, with different sources reporting different things, to get them 100% done for the initial release. Once we see what the OD rosters actually are, and get those set in-game, then we can also set all the injuries correctly. For now, they're nothing more than placeholders really. This is really the same for everything with the rosters. Even in a perfect world, we cannot ship them 100% perfect on release day, because all the information needed comes too quickly and too rapidly in a very short time period, which coincides with the period when we're also working on the development and testing of the new game. Places like fangraphs have not even finished their team prospect lists yet for instance. It takes a couple months beyond release to collect and incorporate all the data we get from the start of the season and the offseason. So typically around July or August, the rosters are much more polished and finished than they are at release. If you actually compared the amount that changes during that time period, you'll see it's an enormous amount of data. Of course that doesn't mean we get everything, we're only human after all and we depend primarily on volunteers. This is why every year we ask for help with stuff you guys noticed that's wrong: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=299987 When you see something like Holland's velocity being outdated, or Keston Hiura still having experience at positions from college, please pop in there and post and let us know. We do monitor that thread religiously and incorporate the changes suggested there regularly. Anyway, just know we take the rosters very seriously and are very passionate about them We are always working on updating them. I feel very safe in saying that there's certainly no other game in the world, other than Football Manager, with a database that's as comprehensive and accurate in covering their sport as OOTP covers baseball. But we're not perfect, and we do miss stuff. We can always use some help in improving things even more. Sometimes in the huge breadth of our coverage, a bit of depth can get lost. We can be so focused on getting the Czech League in the game, we miss updating Greg Holland's velocity change. So when you see something wrong, please help us out and post in the thread I linked above and say something. Does that help explain things a bit? Hopefully so. __________________ lukas@ootpdevelopments.com Order Out of the Park Baseball 25! Need to upload files for us to check out? Instructions can be found here Last edited by Lukas Berger; 03-23-2019 at 02:54 PM.

03-22-2019, 11:05 PM	#2
Chomps Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Taiwan Posts: 445	I have seen similar issues so far. What is a good reference to find the data on players that you mentioned in your post?

03-23-2019, 11:03 AM	#5
Orioles1966 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 2,869	In past versions of OOTP my teams liked playing Freddie Patek at first base and I doubt he ever played there(even in Little League). Another one is Rico Carty catching.