What if Bobby Orr Stayed Healthy? FHM 2's Historical Mode Allows You to Recreate And Rewrite History

[Nino33]

Originally Posted by Smetana

Except the only person in this thread that put these two phrases into the same concept is you. Nobody has said that FHM will take ten years to become a strong historical sim. Read again, because you're looking silly.

I honestly don't understand.
One person said FHM was "awful" and "a long ways off"
Another person (not me) used OOPT as a comparison, and brought up the 10 years.....I think the English words "a long way off" and "10 years" mean pretty much the same thing (i.e. I think they think pretty much the same thing, just use different words/ways of describing it)

And just like I'm not an EHM only supporter despite your saying it, I'm not saying FHM will take ten years to become a strong historical sim, despite your saying it...

[Smetana]

Originally Posted by Smetana

This is getting foolish.

Yeah. I'm done with this.

[Nino33]

Originally Posted by tward13

Thanks Smetana. Some of us aren't on these other forums and aren't even aware of other possible agendas.

And I thought the topic was the Bobby Orr sim, the excessive scoring/weak goalies/low PIM/missing seasons were asked about.....you think I caused that to happen? And then caused it to be posted?

[Duranium]

Originally Posted by tward13

Thanks Smetana. Some of us aren't on these other forums and aren't even aware of other possible agendas.

.....amen...

[Cole]

Originally Posted by Nino33

I have a what you consider "jabs" to be honest. I avoid namecalling and excessive hyperbole...are expressing facts/opinions about the game/development taking jabs at someone?

Tiger Fan's entire response was a jab, wasn't it? Doesn't G-nuke have a right to an opinion? Are the words "awful" and "a long ways off" really so offensive?

Tiger Fan didn't even mention any of the multiple issues that multiple people had asked about (even to say "I'll get back to you"), but posted a long post that focused completely on G-nuke's opinion...and then you thanked him for it

Any antagonistic posting or overly negative back and forth that is directed more at a person than discussion of the game is the type of behavior I want to limit on the forums if it all possible.

Also, I never once specified my warning to any specific person. Yes, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Furthermore, Tiger Fan is a beta tester and someone who volunteered to do a blog. He has no specific obligation to answer every single question that comes forward from it.

I do of course represent the company and I do my best to answer whatever I can, but often I don't know some specific answers off the top of my head and it requires some digging. At this point in time where I have a finite amount of FHM 2 time and a laundry list of things to do before release, it's slightly counterproductive for me to take the time to find out the answer for some of the more obscure and time consuming questions.

Our hope is that you guys will all soon have a chance to get your hands on the game and answer all your questions for yourselves.

[Cole]

Originally Posted by sprague

Thanks for the answer.

Question. In fhm 2 can we delete players or automatically retire players like ootp? I found in 1 too many very good 41 or 42 year old players still in the free agent pool getting signed and taking roster spots from guys who really played that year. So ability to be rid of or retire players as we want can help greatly.

I am checking with Jeff who is the historical guru on this, but there is no automatic retire feature.

That being said, the development curves in FHM 2 are much improved, so I would assume the issue of players sticking around into their 40s would not be a big issue.

[Cole]

Some food for thought...

People have made some good points about some issues that have arisen. Some things in these screenshots were not completely accurate, such as Orr's PIM totals, for example.

That being said, rather than jumping to the conclusion that the sim engine and historical accuracy is and will be awful, it has to be considered that often a few small rating changes can make a big difference.

As an example, I just ran some sims with Orr and the only thing I changed was his physicality rating slightly. All of a sudden, he's racking up 100+ PIM seasons just like in real life (while still scoring at reasonable rates as compared to his real-life career).

Another consideration is that our developer Jeff has done and continues to do a lot of work with historical mode and the database will continue to be adjusted right up until release (Jeff mentioned he changed Orr's ratings somewhat recently, too).

I'm not sure what build Tiger Fan did this simulation on, but Jeff told me the PIM totals in most recent builds are looking a lot better now and Orr is at 100+ PIM regularly (even without adjusting his ratings).

On top of that, the beauty of our games is that all rating are fully customizable. You aren't tied to anything in game if you don't agree with it. All statistical output is tied to specific ratings (or combinations of them), so if you don't agree with the statistical output of a certain player in historical mode, go ahead and modify his ratings! It's your game, play it your way!

[G-Nuke]

Originally Posted by Nino33

I honestly don't understand.
One person said FHM was "awful" and "a long ways off"

Nope... never said that. I said the historical research is awful. As it was in FHM1... I can get the FHM1 engine to produce very acceptable results if I re-rate every player manually. It's tedious, and if we were given the ability to do this in a comprehensive editor, I'd never bitch about the research ever again.

[Cole]

Originally Posted by Cole

I am checking with Jeff who is the historical guru on this, but there is no automatic retire feature.

That being said, the development curves in FHM 2 are much improved, so I would assume the issue of players sticking around into their 40s would not be a big issue.

Yes, as I suspected there is no automatic retire function. However, if you really wanted someone to stop playing you could simply edit him off his team and edit him to have a long-term injury, as a workaround.

But it shouldn't be needed.. Jeff confirms that development curves and retirement coding has been adjusted and you rarely see 40+ year olds playing now.

[G-Nuke]

Originally Posted by Cole

That being said, the development curves in FHM 2 are much improved, so I would assume the issue of players sticking around into their 40s would not be a big issue.

The problem in FHM1 is that Jeff decided that if a player played a single minor league game that year, that the player was still "active", and so he didn't retire in game. There were no "development curves". Combined with the terrible ratings practices, you were left with a bunch of irrelevant (IRL) players still lurking in free agency (while you had NHL all stars unable to crack a lineup despit having 30-40 goal seasons IRL).


This statement now has me wondering wether we will see a Gordie Howe prematurely retire...


Having said that, I do hope I'm wrong, and I will be the happiest hockey fan in the world if I have to come back here and eat crow once the game actually is out there.

[Nino33]

Originally Posted by G-Nuke

Nope... never said that. I said the historical research is awful. As it was in FHM1... I can get the FHM1 engine to produce very acceptable results if I re-rate every player manually. It's tedious, and if we were given the ability to do this in a comprehensive editor, I'd never bitch about the research ever again.

I stand corrected! Sorry about that, shoulda said...


One person said the FHM historical research was "awful" and "a long ways off"
Another person (not me) used OOPT as a comparison, and brought up the 10 years


My point wasn't about the details, but rather I wish the "FHM supporters" hadn't got so bothered by some hyperbole (and it surprises me, given how often they use it themselves)

Originally Posted by Cole

Any antagonistic posting or overly negative back and forth that is directed more at a person than discussion of the game is the type of behavior I want to limit on the forums if it all possible.

Can you please tell Smetana to stop making personal allegations against me that I hate FHM, I got the the FHM Board on TBL shut down (I suspect it was the negativity of FHM supporters/Smetana proclaiming he wouldn't follow follow TBL rules that got it shut down), and I have some hidden agenda (like I secretly messed up your sim & forced you to publicize it)

I expressed my opinion that the negativity/attacking isn't helpful for FHM...and I expressed some facts seen in the screenshots & said "The goals scored, save percentage and PIM totals all seem "understandable" to me (work-in-progress).....but the missing Orr seasons seems odd "

I don't think I deserve the attacking I've gotten because my opinion is G-Nuke had the right to his opinion without (what I thought was) the negative/defensive response

[Smetana]

Originally Posted by Nino33

I stand corrected! Sorry about that, shoulda said...


One person said the FHM historical research was "awful" and "a long ways off"
Another person (not me) used OOPT as a comparison, and brought up the 10 years


My point wasn't about the details, but rather I wish the "FHM supporters" hadn't got so bothered by some hyperbole (and it surprises me, given how often they use it themselves)






Can you please tell Smetana to stop making personal allegations against me that I hate FHM, I got the the FHM Board on TBL shut down (I suspect it was the negativity of FHM supporters/Smetana proclaiming he wouldn't follow follow TBL rules that got it shut down), and I have some hidden agenda (like I secretly messed up your sim & forced you to publicize it)

I expressed my opinion that the negativity/attacking isn't helpful for FHM...and I expressed some facts seen in the screenshots & said "The goals scored, save percentage and PIM totals all seem "understandable" to me (work-in-progress).....but the missing Orr seasons seems odd "

I don't think I deserve the attacking I've gotten because my opinion is G-Nuke had the right to his opinion without (what I thought was) the negative/defensive response

Let's get it straight. I never stated that you "hate FHM." What I said certainly implied that you are such a staunch supporter of Eastside Hockey that you view the genre through Riz-colored glasses. And I get it--you've played EHM for long time and have put a lot of hours into data editing. The fact of the matter is, I too have played a lot of EHM, and as many hours as you have spent on editing player data, Nino, I've spent three times as much time editing every version of that game.

My point is that I have always liked EHM and have supported Riz from the very beginning, when he and I communicated often about his work on the game. But I'm not so blind as to not see the failings and shortcomings of that series, along with its strengths, just as I can grasp that FHM also has its weaknesses and strong points.

I have not personally attacked you. I have attacked your silly arguments. Just as i did on the BlueLine. Your statement that I proclaimed that I would "not follow the rules" on the TBL boards is preposterous. If Colin finds my posting style to be a bit too PG-13 for the PG crowd gathered there, it's his prerogative to deal with it however he sees fit. In the last thread in the FHM forum over there, you were the one ranting and raving--not me.

You're as welcome as anybody to join in our discussions here. But the fact that you choose to act condescending and all-knowing here is just plain silly.

And I'll call you out on it every time.

[Nino33]

You were wrong on TBL, you're wrong now (and you're doing the same thing here/now; I guess you'll have to ask Cole to explain what "directed more at a person than discussion of the game" means)


Is the reason why make these personal attacks because you find the game so difficult to talk about given the ongoing delay and difficulties? You're using me as a scapegoat/form of deflection?




The guy said "awful" and y'all went into your Taylor Swift fan routine again...

[Cole]

OK guys, we're very far off track here now, both sides have had their back and forth and things are unlikely to get back on track, so I'll close this thread. If anyone has anything specific they want to discuss about this particular blog, feel free to start a new thread with questions.

To answer one final question regarding Gordie Howe's retirement in the new game. Interestingly enough when I messaged Jeff about it to ask about it he mentioned he had been working on that about an hour ago to try to get "Mr. Hockey" staying in the game for as long as he did in real life. So, it's on the radar for sure - obviously a pretty unique case!