Let's talk about the Promotion/Relegation Quickstart

andyhdz · 04-25-2019, 01:29 PM

So I was intrigued with the P/R scenario of teams being sent down but quite frankly I can't bring myself to setup a league where an MLB teams gets sent down and a minor league team name gets moved up so went completely fictional and am using the quickstart P/R league that comes with the game. The quickstart has 4 leagues of 24 teams each for 96 total teams (all fictional team names and players) that start in 2017 with no minor leagues. Some thoughts:

* Finances: The financials and contracts are spot on and set up very nice. The difference in teams and leagues is setup nicely and good players have the option to bail out if a team drops which I've seen happen. It ensures good players won't be stuck playing in lower leagues and stay in the major league. The free agent process because of the financials and league rep ensures the cream of the crop stays at the top while the middle of the road, has beens, and never weres stay in the middle and bottom. If you are a GM in the lower level you can forget about trying to sign a top tier player you just won't be able to afford it. I love the fact that when a team goes through P/R their financials are adjusted automatically so you don't have to worry about that. I adjusted the settings to forbid the major from trading with the lowers leagues (just didnt' seem right to me) but allow the lower tiers to trade with each other. Free agents can sign with anyone.

*League structure: I didn't like the (12/12) league setup so I added two divisions in each subleague (6/6/6/6) so that means I need to P/R teams manually since the game doesn't handle division P/R movement that great. No biggie, it allows for more immersion.

*Team movement: I've played only 3 seasons so far so I can't give the definitive answer on team movement so far but right now since it's a brand new league teams are still finding their way in the pecking order. I've had teams shoot up leagues year after year while some free fall down and others are going a bit slower. I've instituted a house rule where a team that gets promoted gets a grace year to find their footing so they can finish in last place and avoid relegation. I've had to use that twice already. The first time the team when right down after their grace year and in the second time the team found its footing and is still around the higher league.

Draft: Ok I saved the worse for the last. Someone has noted before and it's already been reported but the draft for associations is broken. No other way to say it. The quickstart comes with the leagues setup in an association and the draft options for the association just don't work. Teams are put in weird order. The optimal solution would be for all leagues to draft from one pool (player creation 1.0 modifiers) but have the top league go first and do their complete draft and then go on to league 2, 3 etc. This ensures the top players go to the right league with the lowest tier getting the leftover players. The way its' setup now that won't happen. My bandaid solution was to delete the association and setup player creation modifiers as 1.0 for tier 1, .975 for tier 2, .950 for tier 3, and .925 for tier 4 and have them draft separately using their own player pool. Is it the best solution? I don't know. I'm not sure if that's the right spread of player creation modifiers I should use or what kind of impact it will have but at least it's better than the default. I hope this is fixed sometime soon.

Tweaks: I have it setup where the top tier league creates international amateurs, discoveries and established free agents and indy players while the bottom leagues dont' get that luxury. I think that would mimic real life as these players would want to go to the top league. Whoever the top league release or doesn't sign can then go to the bottom leagues if they want. That might get tweaked if I don't see enough movement from these players.

Other than that it's been fun so far. Maybe in the future I'll add in some minor leagues (call it a developmental league) for the top 1 or 2 leagues. But now that I think about it I'd have to test that out first since i'm not sure how the team movement would affect the minor league structure. Might have to set it up for all 4 leagues.

ruffyen · 04-25-2019, 05:09 PM

Full disclosure I have not done PR in XX yet but...

The only piece I dont like from your assessment is the draft. I always go with the lowest tier leagues get the first shot. There are a couple reasons for this. One it gives low tier teams a chance to compete, and in the primary game, players have to go through MiLB (A AA AAA) before making their way up.

Other than that, I like your assessment

andyhdz · 04-25-2019, 05:18 PM

I can see your point and your looking at it from the American model of the worse team getting first dibs on the best talent. I'm thinking of it from the world model where the best teams get the best talent and if you can't hang with the big boys your sent down and suffer the consequences and another team takes your place and gets a chance to shine.

jparker2112 · 04-25-2019, 06:43 PM

your assessment is spot on! i LOVE the P/R idea BUT the draft has drive me from really digging into it. Ideally id love to have a 4 tier P/R world with a mix of RD and fictional players avail in each draft. can you imagine if Ty Cobb was taken by a tier 3 team? could he alone propel a promotion to tier 1? Or a fictional stud on a tier 2 team pitching to an aged George Brett to avoid being relegated? THESE are the story lines that i have been drooling over for years since the inception of P/R, BUT it hasnt been paid attention to enough to get it "just right" . my two cents at least...

andyhdz · 04-25-2019, 07:07 PM

Those are interesting scenarios! But yes one they fix the draft that should hopefully generate more interest in P/R leagues.

lencombs · 04-25-2019, 10:57 PM

I've been using a 96 team 4 league P/R game. I changed the fictional teams to real minor league teams with correct nicknames, and logos, and uniforms. I have the leagues divided into 3 divisions of 8, East Central West and the promotion relegation works great. Division winners promote, division last place teams relegate. Teams promote or relegate in the same geographic region, IE East teams stay in East. I posted a quickstart of this league on Steam.

I ran the same league in 2018 version where the lower leagues draft first, in my current game, each league drafts their own players. It works better the way it is now I think because in 2018 the A level clubs would have Major League caliber players joining via the draft and after a couple drafts it was easier to gain promotion. Its more challenging when only drafting A level players at the A level league. It took me 4 seasons to gain promotion from the bottom league, just started season 5.

Boomcoach · 04-26-2019, 10:18 AM

I have been thinking about starting the P/R game, doing the draft and letting it sim for about 5 seasons before I take over a team. Let the teams find their levels before I start playing, in other words.

andyhdz · 04-26-2019, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lencombs

Its more challenging when only drafting A level players at the A level league. It took me 4 seasons to gain promotion from the bottom league, just started season 5.

Great glad to hear we are on the same page. So what did you set your player creation modifiers for the lower tier leagues? I'm on season 4 and still stuck on the lowest league but I literally took on the worse team of the entire world finished dead last in the lowest level my first year so it's been a slow climb considering I don't have a lot of money to work with.

andyhdz · 04-26-2019, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boomcoach

I have been thinking about starting the P/R game, doing the draft and letting it sim for about 5 seasons before I take over a team. Let the teams find their levels before I start playing, in other words.

That's a good strategy you'll need 5 seasons or so for the teams and player talent to settle down.

jparker2112 · 04-26-2019, 02:28 PM

so with all these ideas being used, i dont see a way to use RD players in this type of world. its easier to futz with fictional draftees in term of player creation modifiers, but with RD i doubt it would work unfortunately....unless i am missing something? easy..i know im missing A LOT! haha!

lencombs · 04-26-2019, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyhdz

So what did you set your player creation modifiers for the lower tier leagues? .

I have 4 leagues Top League has reputation 10 then next is 8, 6 and 4. As in the 1st screenshot.

I had top league financials at 100% then each lower league was 20 % lower.

The player creation modifiers were 1.000 top league down to .750 4th league. 2nd and third screenshot. I actually don't think I had to modify the player creation section, it did it automatically when set the league reputation maybe. I started with a team in the bottom league and promoted after season 4.
Each league has their own draft so you want promoted to get access to the better players and financials, and avoid being relegated. Plus top free agents won't consider playing in a lower reputation league. 18 of the 96 teams (roughly 20%) change leagues every season so really is an added dynamic to the traditional leagues. Winning is rewarded, losing punished.

alphington · 05-16-2020, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lencombs

. I posted a quickstart of this league on Steam.

I have the non-Steam version and wondering if your quickstart is downloadable anywhere (did a search but no luck)?

04-25-2019, 01:29 PM	#1
andyhdz All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Fresno, CA by way of Texas Posts: 1,754	Let's talk about the Promotion/Relegation Quickstart So I was intrigued with the P/R scenario of teams being sent down but quite frankly I can't bring myself to setup a league where an MLB teams gets sent down and a minor league team name gets moved up so went completely fictional and am using the quickstart P/R league that comes with the game. The quickstart has 4 leagues of 24 teams each for 96 total teams (all fictional team names and players) that start in 2017 with no minor leagues. Some thoughts: * Finances: The financials and contracts are spot on and set up very nice. The difference in teams and leagues is setup nicely and good players have the option to bail out if a team drops which I've seen happen. It ensures good players won't be stuck playing in lower leagues and stay in the major league. The free agent process because of the financials and league rep ensures the cream of the crop stays at the top while the middle of the road, has beens, and never weres stay in the middle and bottom. If you are a GM in the lower level you can forget about trying to sign a top tier player you just won't be able to afford it. I love the fact that when a team goes through P/R their financials are adjusted automatically so you don't have to worry about that. I adjusted the settings to forbid the major from trading with the lowers leagues (just didnt' seem right to me) but allow the lower tiers to trade with each other. Free agents can sign with anyone. League structure: I didn't like the (12/12) league setup so I added two divisions in each subleague (6/6/6/6) so that means I need to P/R teams manually since the game doesn't handle division P/R movement that great. No biggie, it allows for more immersion. Team movement: I've played only 3 seasons so far so I can't give the definitive answer on team movement so far but right now since it's a brand new league teams are still finding their way in the pecking order. I've had teams shoot up leagues year after year while some free fall down and others are going a bit slower. I've instituted a house rule where a team that gets promoted gets a grace year to find their footing so they can finish in last place and avoid relegation. I've had to use that twice already. The first time the team when right down after their grace year and in the second time the team found its footing and is still around the higher league. Draft: Ok I saved the worse for the last. Someone has noted before and it's already been reported but the draft for associations is broken. No other way to say it. The quickstart comes with the leagues setup in an association and the draft options for the association just don't work. Teams are put in weird order. The optimal solution would be for all leagues to draft from one pool (player creation 1.0 modifiers) but have the top league go first and do their complete draft and then go on to league 2, 3 etc. This ensures the top players go to the right league with the lowest tier getting the leftover players. The way its' setup now that won't happen. My bandaid solution was to delete the association and setup player creation modifiers as 1.0 for tier 1, .975 for tier 2, .950 for tier 3, and .925 for tier 4 and have them draft separately using their own player pool. Is it the best solution? I don't know. I'm not sure if that's the right spread of player creation modifiers I should use or what kind of impact it will have but at least it's better than the default. I hope this is fixed sometime soon. Tweaks: I have it setup where the top tier league creates international amateurs, discoveries and established free agents and indy players while the bottom leagues dont' get that luxury. I think that would mimic real life as these players would want to go to the top league. Whoever the top league release or doesn't sign can then go to the bottom leagues if they want. That might get tweaked if I don't see enough movement from these players. Other than that it's been fun so far. Maybe in the future I'll add in some minor leagues (call it a developmental league) for the top 1 or 2 leagues. But now that I think about it I'd have to test that out first since i'm not sure how the team movement would affect the minor league structure. Might have to set it up for all 4 leagues. Last edited by andyhdz; 04-25-2019 at 01:41 PM.

04-25-2019, 10:57 PM	#6
lencombs All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Eureka, Ca Posts: 533	I've been using a 96 team 4 league P/R game. I changed the fictional teams to real minor league teams with correct nicknames, and logos, and uniforms. I have the leagues divided into 3 divisions of 8, East Central West and the promotion relegation works great. Division winners promote, division last place teams relegate. Teams promote or relegate in the same geographic region, IE East teams stay in East. I posted a quickstart of this league on Steam. I ran the same league in 2018 version where the lower leagues draft first, in my current game, each league drafts their own players. It works better the way it is now I think because in 2018 the A level clubs would have Major League caliber players joining via the draft and after a couple drafts it was easier to gain promotion. Its more challenging when only drafting A level players at the A level league. It took me 4 seasons to gain promotion from the bottom league, just started season 5. __________________ "A passion for statistics is the earmark of a literate people." - Paul Fisher "Baseball isn't statistics. Baseball is (Joe) DiMaggio rounding second." - Jimmy Cannon

04-26-2019, 10:18 AM	#7
Boomcoach All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 805	I have been thinking about starting the P/R game, doing the draft and letting it sim for about 5 seasons before I take over a team. Let the teams find their levels before I start playing, in other words. __________________ Boomcoach Let's Go Crew

04-25-2019, 05:09 PM	#2
ruffyen Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 61	Full disclosure I have not done PR in XX yet but... The only piece I dont like from your assessment is the draft. I always go with the lowest tier leagues get the first shot. There are a couple reasons for this. One it gives low tier teams a chance to compete, and in the primary game, players have to go through MiLB (A AA AAA) before making their way up. Other than that, I like your assessment

04-25-2019, 05:18 PM	#3
andyhdz All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Fresno, CA by way of Texas Posts: 1,754	I can see your point and your looking at it from the American model of the worse team getting first dibs on the best talent. I'm thinking of it from the world model where the best teams get the best talent and if you can't hang with the big boys your sent down and suffer the consequences and another team takes your place and gets a chance to shine.

04-25-2019, 06:43 PM	#4
jparker2112 All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Denver CO Posts: 800 Blog Entries: 1	your assessment is spot on! i LOVE the P/R idea BUT the draft has drive me from really digging into it. Ideally id love to have a 4 tier P/R world with a mix of RD and fictional players avail in each draft. can you imagine if Ty Cobb was taken by a tier 3 team? could he alone propel a promotion to tier 1? Or a fictional stud on a tier 2 team pitching to an aged George Brett to avoid being relegated? THESE are the story lines that i have been drooling over for years since the inception of P/R, BUT it hasnt been paid attention to enough to get it "just right" . my two cents at least...

04-25-2019, 07:07 PM	#5
andyhdz All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Fresno, CA by way of Texas Posts: 1,754	Those are interesting scenarios! But yes one they fix the draft that should hopefully generate more interest in P/R leagues.

04-26-2019, 02:28 PM	#10
jparker2112 All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Denver CO Posts: 800 Blog Entries: 1	so with all these ideas being used, i dont see a way to use RD players in this type of world. its easier to futz with fictional draftees in term of player creation modifiers, but with RD i doubt it would work unfortunately....unless i am missing something? easy..i know im missing A LOT! haha!