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Old 10-29-2019, 01:51 AM   #421
thehef
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This is the only piece of evidence you need to show why you need an automated strike zone. Barksdale should immediately be suspended from the series, if not terminated.
Not disagreeing. But I would amend that to say that this is why we need either an automated strike zone or competent umpires with strong character and thick skin... If that story is true, yes, that ump should be immediately terminated. No excuses.
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Old 10-29-2019, 02:41 AM   #422
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Scherzer not starting is huge. I think whoever wins this game wins the series.
Agreed with this when it was written (before game 5) and definitely agree with it now that HOU is up 3 games to 2.

That said, the pitching matchups for games 6 and, if necessary, game 7...

Strassburg vs Verlander
Scherzer vs Grenke

... would seem to favor the Nats.

But in order for the Nats to win, this World Series would be - AFAIK - the first in major sports history where a seven game series had the road team winning every game. Other World Series' where HFA meant nearly nothing were in 1906, 1923, and 1996, where the home team won just one of six games.

In the NBA, the 1974 Finals saw each team winning at home just one time in a seven-gamer, and both the 1993 and 2019 NBA Finals were six-gamers with the home team winning just once.

At most, the home team in the 2019 WS will win one game in either a six or seven game series. Or a Nats' win will make seven-game history.
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Old 10-29-2019, 07:06 AM   #423
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Not disagreeing. But I would amend that to say that this is why we need either an automated strike zone or competent umpires with strong character and thick skin... If that story is true, yes, that ump should be immediately terminated. No excuses.
I'm with you. But I also don't believe you can take the humanity out of the equation. I like to think I'm as fair as any human on this planet. But I can't say if I was behind the plate that somewhere deep in my subconscious I wouldn't shrink the strike zone to the size of a pencil for the Yanks, RSox & Cards pitchers.

That's the advantage of an automated strike zone. It doesn't know the home team is pitching or at bat. It doesn't know if it is spring training or the WS. It doesn't know if a HOF is throwing or a career minor league journeyman. It doesn't know if it is the opening pitch or a 3-2 pitch in the 9th. It doesn't know if the batter criticized it 2 seasons ago or donated a pair of shoes for its charity event. All it knows if the ball crossed the plate at the proper height or not. Take the potential of bias out of the equation.
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Old 10-29-2019, 10:06 AM   #424
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You don't fire a second baseman when he makes an error, why would you fire an umpire for one error?
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Old 10-29-2019, 10:31 AM   #425
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You don't fire a second baseman when he makes an error, why would you fire an umpire for one error?


Come on

If a second baseman throws the ball over the first baseman's head, no, you don't fire him
And if the ump misses a call at the plate, you don't fire him

But, if the ump doesn't call a strike *that he knows is a strike* because he doesn't like that the catcher stood up is something totally different. It's like if the second baseman, I don't know, refused to throw the ball to first when the pitcher was covering because he hated that guy. But, it's even worse than that because the sole job of the umpire is to enforce the rules. So, it's more like the second baseman refusing to swing at the plate, run the bases, field balls because he doesn't like his manager. And, yes, you sure might find a new second baseman in that situation.
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Old 10-29-2019, 10:42 AM   #426
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You don't fire a second baseman when he makes an error, why would you fire an umpire for one error?
You're missing the point. In a nutshell, the ump is making the wrong call because he got his feelings hurt.
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Old 10-29-2019, 10:47 AM   #427
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You're missing the point. In a nutshell, the ump is making the wrong call because he got his feelings hurt.
Spot on. The ump is like the judge. Like Lady Justice, he is supposed to be "blindfolded" when it comes to anything that isn't in the scales. Once he is shown to be affected by any prejudice or bias he has lost his usefulness as an ump.
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Old 10-29-2019, 08:31 PM   #428
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First thing tomorrow, I'm getting Alex Bregman's face tattooed onto my ass.
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Old 10-29-2019, 09:34 PM   #429
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I'm not sure it's possible for a major-leaguer to look more feeble than Robles does vs Verlander.
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Old 10-29-2019, 09:56 PM   #430
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VerLOLander

Can't believe the Dodgers didn't trade for this guy to guarantee themselves the 2017 WS
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Old 10-29-2019, 09:59 PM   #431
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First thing tomorrow, I'm getting Alex Bregman's face tattooed onto my ass.
Although, maybe, just to be sure, I should wait until after Game 7. -.-
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Old 10-29-2019, 10:04 PM   #432
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(angrily yells at Soto) Hey! Wear your cap LIKE A MAN!!

(groans and looks for more cookies to sooth the pain)
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Old 10-29-2019, 10:53 PM   #433
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So what do you guys think about that call on Turner?
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Old 10-29-2019, 11:06 PM   #434
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I know why Martinez is mad. And I hate when media blames a coach/player for going ballistic when he feels he is getting shafted (Not saying he was, cause I'm as confused any anyone else on that call). But this is the WS, you have a lead, you can get to game 7. Now is not the time to cause the ump to have an axe to grind with you. And you need to be there to make decisions to end the game. Save it post series
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Old 10-29-2019, 11:09 PM   #435
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So what do you guys think about that call on Turner?
Dumb rule.

Robo umps and safety bags
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Old 10-29-2019, 11:10 PM   #436
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So what do you guys think about that call on Turner?
I did not like it. Of course I dislike the Astros and am rooting for the Nats...

I don't know whether it was the right call or not. Seems like it's a rule that is way to open to random interpretation and enforcement...

In addition, it's a stupid rule. The base is inside the foul line. Yet the baserunner is expected to run outside the foul line. Stupid.

And if any rule should be open to being reviewed by replay, it's this one. Stupid.

And, I understand that the rule says that the runner on first (who advanced to 3rd on the throw that got away), has to return to first. But that's stupid, too. He should've been given 2nd base because, in theory, if Turner hadn't "interfered," Turner would'be been out and Gomes would've been on 2nd. That would've been a rational outcome, regardless of the rightness or wrongness of the call itself.

At least Rendon's HR "made things right" for the Nat's.
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Old 10-29-2019, 11:17 PM   #437
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I know why Martinez is mad. And I hate when media blames a coach/player for going ballistic when he feels he is getting shafted (Not saying he was, cause I'm as confused any anyone else on that call). But this is the WS, you have a lead, you can get to game 7. Now is not the time to cause the ump to have an axe to grind with you. And you need to be there to make decisions to end the game. Save it post series
In this case & considering the magnitude, I'm thinking the umps wanted nothing to do with that call, and understood Martinez' reaction. And they gave him about 500% more leeway - before they tossed him - than they would've during the regular season... After that, the last thing they'd want to do is further be involved in the outcome by deliberately making borderline calls - grinding the axe - against the Nats... The Rendon dinger got them off the hook.
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Old 10-29-2019, 11:22 PM   #438
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That call was insane. Turner was running normal at full speed to beat the throw. If you don't want to be "interfered with", then make a better throw! And it is so penal that Gomez has to go all the way back to first in a situation where he was forced to run to second in the first place.
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Old 10-29-2019, 11:42 PM   #439
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I did not like it. Of course I dislike the Astros and am rooting for the Nats...

I don't know whether it was the right call or not. Seems like it's a rule that is way to open to random interpretation and enforcement...

In addition, it's a stupid rule. The base is inside the foul line. Yet the baserunner is expected to run outside the foul line. Stupid.

And if any rule should be open to being reviewed by replay, it's this one. Stupid.

And, I understand that the rule says that the runner on first (who advanced to 3rd on the throw that got away), has to return to first. But that's stupid, too. He should've been given 2nd base because, in theory, if Turner hadn't "interfered," Turner would'be been out and Gomes would've been on 2nd. That would've been a rational outcome, regardless of the rightness or wrongness of the call itself.

At least Rendon's HR "made things right" for the Nat's.
I think I'm 80% with you. I really think the ump was influenced by baseball's unwritten rules where the 1B "owns" the inside of the bag while the runner's part of the base is the outside. But there is no regulation on that. Once he made the call, the rulebook kept it like it was. But I'm far from 100% sure on tht.

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In this case & considering the magnitude, I'm thinking the umps wanted nothing to do with that call, and understood Martinez' reaction. And they gave him about 500% more leeway - before they tossed him - than they would've during the regular season... After that, the last thing they'd want to do is further be involved in the outcome by deliberately making borderline calls - grinding the axe - against the Nats... The Rendon dinger got them off the hook.
Which tells me Martinez went over the top. He can't do that. I'm 100% certain the umps gave him every bit of rope they could but he went well over the limit. That means in my eye he purposely went too far and that's on him. There's more at stake here.

I would agree with you that you'd think the umps would possibly be aware to give the Nats more benefit of the doubt on future calls. But then I remember Don Dekkinger, the only man who ever made me feel sorry for the Cards.
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Old 10-29-2019, 11:43 PM   #440
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BTW, if I'm the Astros, at this point I'm petitioning to move game 7 to DC.
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