Starters to Relief affect?

daves · 01-26-2019, 02:02 PM

So when a starter is ineffective I would put him in the bullpen. After some time in the bullpen I noticed his stuff is improving. What else changes when a starter goes to the pen? Does the Pitcher maintain these traits when moving back to the rotation?

bobbycockstrong · 01-26-2019, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daves

So when a starter is ineffective I would put him in the bullpen. After some time in the bullpen I noticed his stuff is improving. What else changes when a starter goes to the pen? Does the Pitcher maintain these traits when moving back to the rotation?

When you change a SP to RP, they tend to get a little boost to their stuff rating (based on various factors I dont really know the math behind). But this does not get retained if you move them back to SP.

zrog2000 · 01-26-2019, 02:27 PM

Every pitcher will be different and it's only the stuff that changes. You can set each pitcher's position from SP to RP and back again to see the change (sometimes it doesn't change as well). When you change back to SP, the original ratings remain. Otherwise that would be pretty dumb.

joehart · 01-26-2019, 02:29 PM

I don't have a list of all the things that happen as pitchers are moved to the bullpen but the Stuff change is immediate.

If you change a SP to RP/CL, you will see the increase in Stuff right away. If you change it back from RP/CL to SP, you will see the drop back to the original value.
The thought behind that is that he will put more effort/speed into fewer amount of pitches.
Example from the real world: Edwin Diaz started out as a SP in his career but when he moved to a closer position, his velocity increased.

Other things that happen is that a SP with high stamina gets tired more quickly when he pitches in the bullpen (You won't see a SP with 100 stamina throw high double digit number of pitches as a RP/CL even though he will do it as a SP).

Also, there is no harm moving a SP to the bullpen and then back to SP.
He will not be a different player because you tried him in a different role for a while.

Dogberry99 · 01-26-2019, 02:39 PM

It is worth mentioning that some pitchers will lose points on their Stuff rating when moved to the bullpen.

Additionally, it is unclear whether a Starting Pitcher must be assigned the role of RP/CL specifically or if the Stuff rating boost is acquired simply by being assigned to the bullpen.

daves · 01-26-2019, 03:13 PM

OK. Just thought other factors might change similarly to moving a SS to 2b or 3b.

Thanks for the replies.

Matt Arnold · 01-26-2019, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogberry99

It is worth mentioning that some pitchers will lose points on their Stuff rating when moved to the bullpen.

Additionally, it is unclear whether a Starting Pitcher must be assigned the role of RP/CL specifically or if the Stuff rating boost is acquired simply by being assigned to the bullpen.

It's automatic based on when they pitch. The visual change to both stuff and fatigue are just to help you see the difference.

DonkeyKongSr · 01-26-2019, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

It's automatic based on when they pitch. The visual change to both stuff and fatigue are just to help you see the difference.

Good to know. This is probably another reason an opener strategy doesn't work. I tried it and suddenly all my good bullpen guys couldn't even last an inning or two without getting blasted. If they really were using their SP ratings even when I set them to RP, the results make more sense.

Matt Arnold · 01-26-2019, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonkeyKongSr

Good to know. This is probably another reason an opener strategy doesn't work. I tried it and suddenly all my good bullpen guys couldn't even last an inning or two without getting blasted. If they really were using their SP ratings even when I set them to RP, the results make more sense.

Yes, although even starters do get a small "first time through the order" boost, and a "third time through the order" penalty that doesn't directly show up in their ratings, so you may have just had a run of back luck there

mad0die · 05-19-2020, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

It's automatic based on when they pitch. The visual change to both stuff and fatigue are just to help you see the difference.

Is a follower considered "starting" for utilizing the starter ratings? Or will a follower use the higher stuff reliever ratings because they aren't starting the game?

01-26-2019, 02:02 PM	#1
daves Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 3,634	Starters to Relief affect? So when a starter is ineffective I would put him in the bullpen. After some time in the bullpen I noticed his stuff is improving. What else changes when a starter goes to the pen? Does the Pitcher maintain these traits when moving back to the rotation? __________________

01-26-2019, 03:13 PM	#6
daves Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 3,634	OK. Just thought other factors might change similarly to moving a SS to 2b or 3b. Thanks for the replies. __________________

01-26-2019, 02:27 PM	#3
zrog2000 All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2018 Posts: 1,335	Every pitcher will be different and it's only the stuff that changes. You can set each pitcher's position from SP to RP and back again to see the change (sometimes it doesn't change as well). When you change back to SP, the original ratings remain. Otherwise that would be pretty dumb.

01-26-2019, 02:29 PM	#4
joehart All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 1,131	I don't have a list of all the things that happen as pitchers are moved to the bullpen but the Stuff change is immediate. If you change a SP to RP/CL, you will see the increase in Stuff right away. If you change it back from RP/CL to SP, you will see the drop back to the original value. The thought behind that is that he will put more effort/speed into fewer amount of pitches. Example from the real world: Edwin Diaz started out as a SP in his career but when he moved to a closer position, his velocity increased. Other things that happen is that a SP with high stamina gets tired more quickly when he pitches in the bullpen (You won't see a SP with 100 stamina throw high double digit number of pitches as a RP/CL even though he will do it as a SP). Also, there is no harm moving a SP to the bullpen and then back to SP. He will not be a different player because you tried him in a different role for a while.

01-26-2019, 02:39 PM	#5
Dogberry99 All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Wichita Falls, TX Posts: 1,328	It is worth mentioning that some pitchers will lose points on their Stuff rating when moved to the bullpen. Additionally, it is unclear whether a Starting Pitcher must be assigned the role of RP/CL specifically or if the Stuff rating boost is acquired simply by being assigned to the bullpen.