How many playoff teams?

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Brad K

If that's the case then there is a correlation between wanting goofy rules and being the weaker league.

See my edits from prior post. (You were too quick in responding this time! )

[Brad K]

Upon additional consideration I've decided the idea of keeping washed up pitchers in the game by letting them pitch from 55 feet isn't the most effective solution. The best thing is to not do that AND abolish the DH.

A better way to keep cripples in the game is to give any team where the average player age is over 30 a wild card spot. More teams in the playoffs AND we get to see the cripples play. A win-win if there ever was one.

None of this "more teams in the hunt" argument. EVERY team is in the hunt.

Imagine trade deadline action. Teams with good records will be scrambling to line up more good talent. Teams with bad records will be dumping good young talent and stocking up on fossils. It might just be possible that EVERYONE makes the playoffs. How cool would that be?

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

See my edits from prior post. (You were too quick in responding this time! )

LOL. Funny we're here at the same time.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Brad K

It doesn't happen often but have faith! After all, this is the organization that gave us the DH, so its shown potential. Now that they've figured out how to keep worn out poistion players in the game…

Or maybe the reason for the DH is to remove the sad sight of pitchers trying to hit, thus resulting in more meaningful pitcher-batter confrontations instead of a nearly guaranteed out.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Or maybe the reason for the DH is to remove the sad sight of pitchers trying to hit, thus resulting in more meaningful pitcher-batter confrontations instead of a nearly guaranteed out.

AL fans are totally inexperienced with the thrill of being able to argue endlessly about whether a manager should have hit for a pitcher, or not hit for a pitcher, or left him in pitching until they got to his spot in the batting order, or pulled him and then having to hit for a fresh reliever.


Seems to me all the wild card people who talked about the thrill of the underdog winning should want to see those pitchers bat. Not as much of a thrill as an inferior team winning the world series but a possibility that could be experienced every day. Where ARE the wild carders who should be here demanding an end to the DH.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Brad K

AL fans are totally inexperienced with the thrill of being able to argue endlessly about whether a manager should have hit for a pitcher, or not hit for a pitcher, or left him in pitching until they got to his spot in the batting order, or pulled him and then having to hit for a fresh reliever.

Except many of those moves are pretty much mandated by the scenario.

To my mind, expecting a pitcher to hit is rather like expecting a goalie in hockey to also play as a forward. The pitcher, like the goalie, is a specialized position requiring very specialized skills. Let them focus on that task and let those with the time to train and practice hitting be the batters.

Originally Posted by Brad K

Seems to me all the wild card people who talked about the thrill of the underdog winning should want to see those pitchers bat. Not as much of a thrill as an inferior team winning the world series but a possibility that could be experienced every day. Where ARE the wild carders who should be here demanding an end to the DH.

I'm ambivalent about the wild card. For me, the idea setup is a league divided into two 6-team divisions with the first-place teams advancing to the league championship series. (5- or 7-team divisions are also acceptable, but are less than ideal numbers. 8-team divisions are a little too large.)

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Except many of those moves are pretty much mandated by the scenario.

That's what DH fans would have us believe.

But hitting for or not hitting for or leaving in until he can be hit for or pulling him has wasting a RP are decisions affected by multiple inputs of varying importance versus both each other and in different situations.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

I'm ambivalent about the wild card. For me, the idea setup is a league divided into two 6-team divisions with the first-place teams advancing to the league championship series. (5- or 7-team divisions are also acceptable, but are less than ideal numbers. 8-team divisions are a little too large.)

What kind of schedule?

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Brad K

That's what DH fans would have us believe.

But hitting for or not hitting for or leaving in until he can be hit for or pulling him has wasting a RP are decisions affected by multiple inputs of varying importance versus both each other and in different situations.

Here's the thing: I don't look down on those who prefer no DH. If that style of baseball is what you like, then by all means watch and enjoy it. Me, I prefer the DH, so I go with that. No moralizing or pontificating necessary, just an acceptance that the rules allow for different styles to exist, and folks can pick what they like better.

There was a time when a ball hit out of the park was not a home run if the ball landed foul outside the fences; the pitching mound used to be 15 inches high; a game-ending home run sometimes only counted as a single, depending on the circumstances; and so forth. Lots of rule changes, big and small, have been made to the game over the decades.

OOTP at least gives the user to opportunity to craft the baseball universe as they see fit.

Originally Posted by Brad K

What kind of schedule?

The classic version, of course: 90 games in the division (18 games per opponent) and 72 games against the other division (12 games per opponent).

For two 7-team divisions, I'd rather see the 90-72 ratio preserved, so 15 games against each division opponent; for interdivisional games, one club played 12 times and the other six played 10 times each to reach 72 games, using modern-style home-away distributions. Not a fan of the balanced schedule the AL used from 1979-93 (78 division games, 13 per opponent; 84 interdivision games, 12 per opponent).

[Brad K]

The 1969 schedule format is a good one.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Brad K

The 1969 schedule format is a good one.

The NL used the same basic format (18-12) from 1969-92. What did change was the pattern of division and interdivision games.

In the 1969 schedule, clubs played 10 division series, then 12 interdivision series, then 10 division, then 12 interdivision, and ended with 10 division series (or 10d-12i-10d-12i-10d for short). There was some dissatisfaction with the long stretches of interdivision play, so that particular pattern was dropped after the season and a more varied pattern adopted for 1970. MLB then experimented with several different patterns. In the 1980s, it settled upon the following pattern: 6d-12i-8d-6i-6d-6i-10d.

[r0nster]

in short and bottom line with the divisional setup as per original post. Division winner without wildcard is perfect.

No need to get into various nonsense of why they do wild card today in real life and we know the reasons whether we like it or not.
Is this really something to argue debate or fight over … to me it isn't even close to being worth it

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by r0nster

in short and bottom line with the divisional setup as per original post. Division winner without wildcard is perfect.

Note the OP has chosen to do otherwise.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by r0nster

No need to get into various nonsense of why they do wild card today in real life and we know the reasons whether we like it or not.
Is this really something to argue debate or fight over … to me it isn't even close to being worth it

I assume at least Le Grande Orange is enjoying the discussion. I know I am.

A shame none of the big playoff folks can laugh at my ludicrous suggestions for expanding the field.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Here's the thing: I don't look down on those who prefer no DH. If that style of baseball is what you like, then by all means watch and enjoy it. Me, I prefer the DH, so I go with that. No moralizing or pontificating necessary, just an acceptance that the rules allow for different styles to exist, and folks can pick what they like better.

When the DH came in they should have cut the pay of all the AL managers.

[Drstrangelove]

My preference would be no interleague play, and the top 4 teams (by record) would play in each league. Division winning would not be a factor: only W-L record. If there was IL play, it would not decide the playoffs. Current structures, (the poll having even worse options), allows the feasibility of sub- 500 teams winning the title, which degrades the point of both the season and the playoffs.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Drstrangelove

My preference would be no interleague play, and the top 4 teams (by record) would play in each league. Division winning would not be a factor: only W-L record. If there was IL play, it would not decide the playoffs. Current structures, (the poll having even worse options), allows the feasibility of sub- 500 teams winning the title, which degrades the point of both the season and the playoffs.

Where's the cutoff for unacceptable? 510? 520?

[Drstrangelove]

Originally Posted by Brad K

Where's the cutoff for unacceptable? 510? 520?

Well, it's perception and baseball fans have always been big consumers of perception. We count players' .300 BA and 20 W seasons, not .299 and 19. We declare 3,000 hits and 500 homers as sacrosanct. These are numerical red-lines, thresholds and hurdles. A sub-.500 team is self defined as below average. It's math. Undebatable. MLB has plenty of drama. Seeing a 62-100 team have a shot at winning the WS (much less winning it) isn't needed, imo.

[Brad K]

Perception? Well, my perception is that is a team that's beaten is out of the playoffs. And if they finished second or lower in a division, they're already beaten.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Brad K

Perception? Well, my perception is that is a team that's beaten is out of the playoffs.

That's not true in the Mexican Pacific League and Venezuelan Winter League. Both have six teams in the first round of their playoffs. The three winners advance to the second round.

For the second round, in the MPL, the 'best loser' gets another chance and advances to the second round. The team that is the 'best loser' is the one which won the most games in its first round series.

For the second round in the VWL, the two 'best losers' (I'm not sure what criteria is used to judge this) from the first round play a single elimination game against each other, with the winner advancing to the second round.