Fundamental flaws... your chance to vent!

Markus Heinsohn · 01-26-2009, 06:17 AM

OK guys... we're in the midst of coding OOTP 10, and I often hear things like 'fix the fundamentals'! One of the priorities of the new version is to straighten out inherited problems. But I need your help to identify these areas. So, please enlighten me, and be as precise as possible

Posts like "FA compensation is broken, fix it!" do not help at all...

Thanks guys!

towerofpower · 01-26-2009, 06:33 AM

Just a real basic one for me as I tend to play out every game...

When you make a substitution during a game, I'd like to be able to undo it before continuing. For instance I go to pinch hit for my pitcher and accidently drag the name over my shortstop batting 8th, currently I'm stuck, it'd be nice if there was either an undo button, or have it so none of the changes take affect until the user hits a "accept changes" button.

bababui · 01-26-2009, 06:42 AM

I would love the ability to start a universe with all market sizes equal..especially before the initial draft.

Also, I would love to see minimum ratings for MLB staff. Ive seen quite a few MLB managers in the game with horrific ratings.

Cryomaniac · 01-26-2009, 06:45 AM

It's been mentioned by a few people before, but there should be less (or almost none above high school) left handed middle infielders.

Also, I once saw a team's lineup made up entirely of lefties and switch hitters. That shouldn't happen.

bababui · 01-26-2009, 06:49 AM

One other thing..the ability to set universal stadiums pics and setting, and logos for a city/team. It would make setting up a large universe much easier.

Markus Heinsohn · 01-26-2009, 07:17 AM

Note: This is NOT a thread to suggest NEW features... please stick to fundamental parts (AI etc.) which are already in the game and you feel do not work properly. Please don't forget to back up your claims and give me a detailed problem description

Raidergoo · 01-26-2009, 07:24 AM

The hiring of coaches is broken. You can make them a contract offer and then watch them take the same position at an international level team, accepting 99% less money to do so.

Coaches should accept the biggest contract offers. Their hiring procedure should be very similar to a Free Agent.

koohead · 01-26-2009, 08:03 AM

Need to be able to promotoe/demote coaches between levels. I should be able to right click on my Rookie league hitting coach, go to something like transaction options, and select "promote to Double A Hitting coach".

DrSatan · 01-26-2009, 08:15 AM

Cheap contracts for CL's who can start. Pitchers whose position is set to "CL", but start will take agree to a CL's contract vs demanding money equal to a Starter. It's most evident early in the pitcher's career, but I've seen it later on, even after a guy has won pitcher of the year. Also, there seems to be a bug with All-Star worthy starting pitchers not making the team if their position is set to CL. It's like the AI looks at it like, CL1 leads the league in saves, so he's in. CL2 doesn't have any saves so he is crap, even though he's leading the league in ERA. This is something I just noticed after the newest patch. I had a guy who was an AS every year, I patched, then for 2 seasons nothing, so I changed his position to SP, and bang he's an AS again. I also had a guy that was set to MR, and a borderline AS, so I can't say for sure if it's a problem with MR's.

jeremy7227 · 01-26-2009, 08:35 AM

When randomly assigning uniform numbers the game uses too many unrealistic high numbers. The number of real position players wearing numbers over 50 is minimal. Fewer players still have ever worn numbers over 60. Most that have have been pitchers. Players that are the exception to this stand out in memory. Ichiro, Carlton Fisk, Manny Ramirez....

I would like see this fixed for enhanced realism in the future release. When players are created they should have a preferred weight assigned to the lower uniform numbers.

Jeremy

PhillieFever · 01-26-2009, 08:38 AM

This is awesome news Markus.Here's my list.

In game managing-As of now,AI managers do not call a good game of baseball,here's some of the things I've noticed while playing out(one pitch) my games(over 600 of them)

-the AI needs to play their defense in when the situation calls for it.Way too many times late in games(from the 6th inning on) I was able to take the lead or tie the game on a simple ground ball which would have been avoided had the AI played his defense in(basic example)

-Intentional walks are given out way to frequently,I've even seen the AI inentionally walk the tying or winning run late in the game.

-The AI's baserunning/base stealing is way too aggressive late in games,with a lead or without this needs to be toned down.

-In close games,the AI will pinch hit/run for superstars who should not be taken out as well as for players that they don't have suitable replacements for in the field.

-Another problem is lineup choices.Way too often the AI will start a guy at a position that he has no experience at while there is a suitable player on the bench.I can't tell you how many times that the Dodgers started Jim Lefebvre at SS(rating 2) when Maury Wills was on the bench(16)

-The current injury model seems to me to have not enough short term injuries(two weeks or less,a week or less) and way too many long term ones.Injury log has the evidence to corroborate this(I think)

-Another thing has to do with rain delays,something weird is going on here.In OOTP 8 you would get PBP lines saying still raining... until it stopped letting you know there was a delay.Now in OOTP 9 that dosen't happen and you're never informed of a rain delay which causes you to be unprepared when you pitcher suddenly becomes exhausted out of the blue.

-One more I totally forgot about,the AI's use of the sacrifice bunt is suspect at best.There's absolutely no reason to be bunting with runners on first and third and one out,or bunting with a man on first and one out.By doing this its been proven that you dramatically lessen your chance to score.

AirmenSmith · 01-26-2009, 08:41 AM

Flaw:

Pitchers that have reliever endurance being put in to start games even when there are enough starters on the team. Example: MR John Doe will have an endurance of 35/100. Now the team has 6 SP's with endurance over 60/100. Now if John Doe is better then any of the SP's it will put him in the starting rotation. I have seen this lead to pitchers pitching in 70+ games and starting 25 of them and finishing with stats like this: Wins 17 losses 1 saves 34 era 2.13.

I know that the new endurance model was used in this game but I believe it is fundamental flawed. I believe the AI should take the pitchers endurance into account when decided if they are a starter or a reliever.

Also I have only seen this happen after playing in one league for about 30 years. Once I get close to 2040(starting in 2008)is when relievers really start to being put in as starters.

Possible ways to fix this flaw:

1. Make the force start option work for pitchers. The only bad thing is that while this would fix the team you are controlling, the other teams you are not controlling will still put MRs in as SPs.

2. Keep the endurance model the same but have a min endurance requirement for SP's. Or better yet let the user be able to set the min endurance rating for SP's in the whole game or have it as a coaching style.

Importance:

High
This is important to me because I have not been able to play a league longer then 50 years before having to quit because this issue got worse and worse. I don't think this gets recognized as much because ppl that play their games out all the time set there own rotation and bullpen, so they don't have to worry about this problem. I never play out my games I sim them all so I see this happen right away and it does take away from the simming side of the game.

ptwarr18 · 01-26-2009, 08:51 AM

Tone down stealing of Third Base a great deal. Right now, AI players are trying to steal third WAYYYY too much. In my solo league, the AI is constantly trying to steal 3rd on me, which I feel is unrealistic.

Also, for online leagues - have different strategy sliders for stealing. For example, have one "Steal 2nd Base" and the other as "Steal 3rd Base" In my online league, I have some fast players and I want to let them run, but I don't want them stealing 3rd... ever - and currently, theres no setting where I can tell them to steal 2nd but not steal 3rd.

Markus Heinsohn · 01-26-2009, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ptwarr18

Tone down stealing of Third Base a great deal. Right now, AI players are trying to steal third WAYYYY too much. In my solo league, the AI is constantly trying to steal 3rd on me, which I feel is unrealistic.

Also, for online leagues - have different strategy sliders for stealing. For example, have one "Steal 2nd Base" and the other as "Steal 3rd Base" In my online league, I have some fast players and I want to let them run, but I don't want them stealing 3rd... ever - and currently, theres no setting where I can tell them to steal 2nd but not steal 3rd.

The AI does steal third at the same rate as real life teams do.

Markus Heinsohn · 01-26-2009, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AirmenSmith

Flaw:

Pitchers that have reliever endurance being put in to start games even when there are enough starters on the team. Example: MR John Doe will have an endurance of 35/100. Now the team has 6 SP's with endurance over 60/100. Now if John Doe is better then any of the SP's it will put him in the starting rotation. I have seen this lead to pitchers pitching in 70+ games and starting 25 of them and finishing with stats like this: Wins 17 losses 1 saves 34 era 2.13.

I know that the new endurance model was used in this game but I believe it is fundamental flawed. I believe the AI should take the pitchers endurance into account when decided if they are a starter or a reliever.

Also I have only seen this happen after playing in one league for about 30 years. Once I get close to 2040(starting in 2008)is when relievers really start to being put in as starters.

Possible ways to fix this flaw:

1. Make the force start option work for pitchers. The only bad thing is that while this would fix the team you are controlling, the other teams you are not controlling will still put MRs in as SPs.

2. Keep the endurance model the same but have a min endurance requirement for SP's. Or better yet let the user be able to set the min endurance rating for SP's in the whole game or have it as a coaching style.

Importance:

High
This is important to me because I have not been able to play a league longer then 50 years before having to quit because this issue got worse and worse. I don't think this gets recognized as much because ppl that play their games out all the time set there own rotation and bullpen, so they don't have to worry about this problem. I never play out my games I sim them all so I see this happen right away and it does take away from the simming side of the game.

I disagree here... pitchers with endurance of 25+ should be viewed as potential starters. You can use them as well, not just the AI. The point here was to create pitchers who could start, and if their skills are good enough, the AI should and will use them as starters...

kcroyalgm · 01-26-2009, 09:23 AM

These are applicable to on-line play. I don't play solo.
1. When you release an arbitration eligible player on the sim after the World Series but before arbitration, you get charged for the players arbitration estimated salary in player expenses.
2. When you release a minor leaguer with a major league salary anytime from the end of the minor league season until beginning of free agency, you get charged in player expenses with a portion of the player's salary equal to the number of games by which the major league season exceeds the minor league season. (Nutlaw confirmed and logged this as BZ 1189.)

sqidwerd · 01-26-2009, 10:03 AM

Thanks for asking.

-AI usage of pitching staff prior to playoffs. I play as a GM and let my manager handle lineups, substitutions, etc. On the numerous occasions I've made the playoffs, my #1 starter is never able to start the initial game of the playoff series. We will go into the last week with a playoff spot locked up, with expanded rosters, and the AI will strictly stick with the usual rotation without regard for the impending playoff series.

-An issue that handicaps the AI controlled teams is the absence of a disabled list for the minor leagues. I realize this was a coding decision, but it forces one to use ghost players to level the field with the AI.

-Mouse scrolling support for all screens would be nice. It only appears to work on a few screens.

Comedian2004 · 01-26-2009, 10:05 AM

Teams.csv

It only contains the current teams, not teams that have left the league. So, when you use another CSV file, like players.csv and it references a team number, you end up getting the wrong team name sometimes.

This breaks the fundamenaly of the CSV files, since teams.csv is used in other files. This was changed in early beta and was reported that it could not be changed. I can understand that, but there is still a solution to satisfy weird programmers like me. Create a new CSV file that contains this information.

AirmenSmith · 01-26-2009, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

I disagree here... pitchers with endurance of 25+ should be viewed as potential starters. You can use them as well, not just the AI. The point here was to create pitchers who could start, and if their skills are good enough, the AI should and will use them as starters...

Ok fair enough, thats your opinion. How about then making the force start option work with pitchers.

satchel · 01-26-2009, 10:54 AM

In-game strategy improvements, such as those listed in this thread are the most important thing, to me.

01-26-2009, 06:45 AM	#4
Cryomaniac Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2007 Location: Hucknall, Notts, UK Posts: 4,902	It's been mentioned by a few people before, but there should be less (or almost none above high school) left handed middle infielders. Also, I once saw a team's lineup made up entirely of lefties and switch hitters. That shouldn't happen. __________________ Last edited by Cryomaniac; 01-26-2009 at 06:46 AM.

01-26-2009, 07:24 AM	#7
Raidergoo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 9,004	The hiring of coaches is broken. You can make them a contract offer and then watch them take the same position at an international level team, accepting 99% less money to do so. Coaches should accept the biggest contract offers. Their hiring procedure should be very similar to a Free Agent. Last edited by Raidergoo; 01-26-2009 at 02:07 PM. Reason: added the word 'of'

01-26-2009, 08:03 AM	#8
koohead Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 3,137	promotion/demotion of coaches Need to be able to promotoe/demote coaches between levels. I should be able to right click on my Rookie league hitting coach, go to something like transaction options, and select "promote to Double A Hitting coach". __________________ GM - New Jersey Bears of the NPBL;

01-26-2009, 08:35 AM	#10
jeremy7227 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Holly Springs, NC Posts: 50	Player Uniform Numbers When randomly assigning uniform numbers the game uses too many unrealistic high numbers. The number of real position players wearing numbers over 50 is minimal. Fewer players still have ever worn numbers over 60. Most that have have been pitchers. Players that are the exception to this stand out in memory. Ichiro, Carlton Fisk, Manny Ramirez.... I would like see this fixed for enhanced realism in the future release. When players are created they should have a preferred weight assigned to the lower uniform numbers. Jeremy

01-26-2009, 08:38 AM	#11
PhillieFever Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Elk Twp. NJ Posts: 6,763	This is awesome news Markus.Here's my list. In game managing-As of now,AI managers do not call a good game of baseball,here's some of the things I've noticed while playing out(one pitch) my games(over 600 of them) -the AI needs to play their defense in when the situation calls for it.Way too many times late in games(from the 6th inning on) I was able to take the lead or tie the game on a simple ground ball which would have been avoided had the AI played his defense in(basic example) -Intentional walks are given out way to frequently,I've even seen the AI inentionally walk the tying or winning run late in the game. -The AI's baserunning/base stealing is way too aggressive late in games,with a lead or without this needs to be toned down. -In close games,the AI will pinch hit/run for superstars who should not be taken out as well as for players that they don't have suitable replacements for in the field. -Another problem is lineup choices.Way too often the AI will start a guy at a position that he has no experience at while there is a suitable player on the bench.I can't tell you how many times that the Dodgers started Jim Lefebvre at SS(rating 2) when Maury Wills was on the bench(16) -The current injury model seems to me to have not enough short term injuries(two weeks or less,a week or less) and way too many long term ones.Injury log has the evidence to corroborate this(I think) -Another thing has to do with rain delays,something weird is going on here.In OOTP 8 you would get PBP lines saying still raining... until it stopped letting you know there was a delay.Now in OOTP 9 that dosen't happen and you're never informed of a rain delay which causes you to be unprepared when you pitcher suddenly becomes exhausted out of the blue. -One more I totally forgot about,the AI's use of the sacrifice bunt is suspect at best.There's absolutely no reason to be bunting with runners on first and third and one out,or bunting with a man on first and one out.By doing this its been proven that you dramatically lessen your chance to score. __________________ We're All Wednesday Aren't We? WAWAW Last edited by PhillieFever; 01-27-2009 at 09:28 PM.

01-26-2009, 06:17 AM	#1
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 24,739	Fundamental flaws... your chance to vent! OK guys... we're in the midst of coding OOTP 10, and I often hear things like 'fix the fundamentals'! One of the priorities of the new version is to straighten out inherited problems. But I need your help to identify these areas. So, please enlighten me, and be as precise as possible Posts like "FA compensation is broken, fix it!" do not help at all... Thanks guys!

01-26-2009, 06:33 AM	#2
towerofpower Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Canton, MA Posts: 82	Just a real basic one for me as I tend to play out every game... When you make a substitution during a game, I'd like to be able to undo it before continuing. For instance I go to pinch hit for my pitcher and accidently drag the name over my shortstop batting 8th, currently I'm stuck, it'd be nice if there was either an undo button, or have it so none of the changes take affect until the user hits a "accept changes" button.

01-26-2009, 07:17 AM	#6
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 24,739	Note: This is NOT a thread to suggest NEW features... please stick to fundamental parts (AI etc.) which are already in the game and you feel do not work properly. Please don't forget to back up your claims and give me a detailed problem description

01-26-2009, 08:15 AM	#9
DrSatan All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Parts Unknown Posts: 535	Cheap contracts for CL's who can start. Pitchers whose position is set to "CL", but start will take agree to a CL's contract vs demanding money equal to a Starter. It's most evident early in the pitcher's career, but I've seen it later on, even after a guy has won pitcher of the year. Also, there seems to be a bug with All-Star worthy starting pitchers not making the team if their position is set to CL. It's like the AI looks at it like, CL1 leads the league in saves, so he's in. CL2 doesn't have any saves so he is crap, even though he's leading the league in ERA. This is something I just noticed after the newest patch. I had a guy who was an AS every year, I patched, then for 2 seasons nothing, so I changed his position to SP, and bang he's an AS again. I also had a guy that was set to MR, and a borderline AS, so I can't say for sure if it's a problem with MR's.

01-26-2009, 08:41 AM	#12
AirmenSmith Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Corpus Christi TX Posts: 2,090	Flaw: Pitchers that have reliever endurance being put in to start games even when there are enough starters on the team. Example: MR John Doe will have an endurance of 35/100. Now the team has 6 SP's with endurance over 60/100. Now if John Doe is better then any of the SP's it will put him in the starting rotation. I have seen this lead to pitchers pitching in 70+ games and starting 25 of them and finishing with stats like this: Wins 17 losses 1 saves 34 era 2.13. I know that the new endurance model was used in this game but I believe it is fundamental flawed. I believe the AI should take the pitchers endurance into account when decided if they are a starter or a reliever. Also I have only seen this happen after playing in one league for about 30 years. Once I get close to 2040(starting in 2008)is when relievers really start to being put in as starters. Possible ways to fix this flaw: 1. Make the force start option work for pitchers. The only bad thing is that while this would fix the team you are controlling, the other teams you are not controlling will still put MRs in as SPs. 2. Keep the endurance model the same but have a min endurance requirement for SP's. Or better yet let the user be able to set the min endurance rating for SP's in the whole game or have it as a coaching style. Importance: High This is important to me because I have not been able to play a league longer then 50 years before having to quit because this issue got worse and worse. I don't think this gets recognized as much because ppl that play their games out all the time set there own rotation and bullpen, so they don't have to worry about this problem. I never play out my games I sim them all so I see this happen right away and it does take away from the simming side of the game. __________________ Come join me on my Twitch Channel for gaming at its excellence Twitch Link

01-26-2009, 08:51 AM	#13
ptwarr18 Major Leagues Join Date: May 2006 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 308	Tone down stealing of Third Base a great deal. Right now, AI players are trying to steal third WAYYYY too much. In my solo league, the AI is constantly trying to steal 3rd on me, which I feel is unrealistic. Also, for online leagues - have different strategy sliders for stealing. For example, have one "Steal 2nd Base" and the other as "Steal 3rd Base" In my online league, I have some fast players and I want to let them run, but I don't want them stealing 3rd... ever - and currently, theres no setting where I can tell them to steal 2nd but not steal 3rd. __________________ Former OOTP veteran looking to get back into it Last edited by ptwarr18; 01-26-2009 at 08:52 AM.

01-26-2009, 09:23 AM	#16
kcroyalgm All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 634	These are applicable to on-line play. I don't play solo. 1. When you release an arbitration eligible player on the sim after the World Series but before arbitration, you get charged for the players arbitration estimated salary in player expenses. 2. When you release a minor leaguer with a major league salary anytime from the end of the minor league season until beginning of free agency, you get charged in player expenses with a portion of the player's salary equal to the number of games by which the major league season exceeds the minor league season. (Nutlaw confirmed and logged this as BZ 1189.) __________________ Up Kerry! 38 Time All-Ireland Senior Football Champions

01-26-2009, 10:03 AM	#17
sqidwerd Minors (Single A) Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 78	Thanks for asking. -AI usage of pitching staff prior to playoffs. I play as a GM and let my manager handle lineups, substitutions, etc. On the numerous occasions I've made the playoffs, my #1 starter is never able to start the initial game of the playoff series. We will go into the last week with a playoff spot locked up, with expanded rosters, and the AI will strictly stick with the usual rotation without regard for the impending playoff series. -An issue that handicaps the AI controlled teams is the absence of a disabled list for the minor leagues. I realize this was a coding decision, but it forces one to use ghost players to level the field with the AI. -Mouse scrolling support for all screens would be nice. It only appears to work on a few screens.

01-26-2009, 10:05 AM	#18
Comedian2004 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: In a house in Saint Cloud, Florida. Posts: 7,085	Teams.csv It only contains the current teams, not teams that have left the league. So, when you use another CSV file, like players.csv and it references a team number, you end up getting the wrong team name sometimes. This breaks the fundamenaly of the CSV files, since teams.csv is used in other files. This was changed in early beta and was reported that it could not be changed. I can understand that, but there is still a solution to satisfy weird programmers like me. Create a new CSV file that contains this information. __________________ Like BLUES? Visit www.smokestacklightnin.com, you will LOVE it! New show every Monday!! New Blues HOF![/COLOR][/FONT]

01-26-2009, 10:54 AM	#20
satchel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Ft Smith AR Posts: 2,681	In-game strategy improvements, such as those listed in this thread are the most important thing, to me. __________________ JL Commish NPBL Rhode Island Reds ’33 ’34 ’35 TCBA San Francisco Railbornes ’74 ’76 ’77 ’78 FL New Orleans Black Sox ’56 ’57 ’58 ’59