The Annual Settings Thread

[BigRed75]

Here's a problem I seem to be having a lot of, no matter what I have the aging speed, develpment speed or TCR set to:

Typical career of a draftee/international FA in my test leagues

• Get drafted
• Spend 2-3 years in rookie league/short-season A
• Spend a year in Class-A with cup of coffee in Advanced-A
• Spend a year at advanced-A (sometimes with a cup of coffee in AA)
• Spend a week in AA
• Get promoted to the Majors for good

This seems like a completely unrealistic career path, yet it's happening all the time with high draft picks and well-regarded IFAs. I've done six test leagues and it keeps happening.

I'm doing a seventh now, but my first with the new patch. However, I don't think that's going to magically fix things.

Any thoughts, folks?

[Spanish Lefty]

Originally Posted by BigRed75

Here's a problem I seem to be having a lot of, no matter what I have the aging speed, develpment speed or TCR set to:

Typical career of a draftee/international FA in my test leagues

• Get drafted
• Spend 2-3 years in rookie league/short-season A
• Spend a year in Class-A with cup of coffee in Advanced-A
• Spend a year at advanced-A (sometimes with a cup of coffee in AA)
• Spend a week in AA
• Get promoted to the Majors for good

This seems like a completely unrealistic career path, yet it's happening all the time with high draft picks and well-regarded IFAs. I've done six test leagues and it keeps happening.

I'm doing a seventh now, but my first with the new patch. However, I don't think that's going to magically fix things.

Any thoughts, folks?

Manually promote / demote your minor leaguers. Or only the top prospects at least... The AI has its limitations.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by Spanish Lefty

Manually promote / demote your minor leaguers. Or only the top prospects at least... The AI has its limitations.

I think he means all the AI teams are doing it

[Spanish Lefty]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I think he means all the AI teams are doing it

Oh. There's no solution for that I guess

[BigRed75]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I think he means all the AI teams are doing it

Yes, I'm the commissioner, a neutral observer.

So is this an issue other people are seeing, too? I've run 11 season with the default settings on version 17.9 today but haven't been home to look at the results yet.

[wsenkow]

With all due respect to those suggesting playing 'stats only', it does bring to mind several issues. First, to suggest it is more realistic is sheer nonsense. When one disables features of a $40 software program for the sake of realism, I ask...."And just how much do you think the offices of the MLB scouts spend on player evaluation software?" The information, beyond just the statistics, that needs to be generated to stay competitive in the major leagues, currently, and with vision ten years down the line would be mind-boggling as compared to what we can derive from Ootp 17. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if scouts and GM's take into consideration, or at least be able to determine, the risk factor of a player arriving at the stadium without incident of injury!

Another case in point, say you are in the market to upgrade your catcher. You overlook some on certain teams that have had a lot of stolen bases against them. Is it their catcher's fault? What if he has a gun of an arm with accuracy to go along with it, and the stolen bases SHOULD be attributed to the pitching staff instead? Don't you think the MLB scouts can account for this with a click of a mouse? Of course they can, because they HAVE to if they intend to compete with the others.

Stats only can be fun, sure, but to consider it as being more realistic is simply not true.

[jpeters1734]

Originally Posted by wsenkow

With all due respect to those suggesting playing 'stats only', it does bring to mind several issues. First, to suggest it is more realistic is sheer nonsense. When one disables features of a $40 software program for the sake of realism, I ask...."And just how much do you think the offices of the MLB scouts spend on player evaluation software?" The information, beyond just the statistics, that needs to be generated to stay competitive in the major leagues, currently, and with vision ten years down the line would be mind-boggling as compared to what we can derive from Ootp 17. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if scouts and GM's take into consideration, or at least be able to determine, the risk factor of a player arriving at the stadium without incident of injury!

Another case in point, say you are in the market to upgrade your catcher. You overlook some on certain teams that have had a lot of stolen bases against them. Is it their catcher's fault? What if he has a gun of an arm with accuracy to go along with it, and the stolen bases SHOULD be attributed to the pitching staff instead? Don't you think the MLB scouts can account for this with a click of a mouse? Of course they can, because they HAVE to if they intend to compete with the others.

Stats only can be fun, sure, but to consider it as being more realistic is simply not true.

you speak logic! some will not be pleased with you!

[Up here in Canada]

Originally Posted by wsenkow

Another case in point, say you are in the market to upgrade your catcher. You overlook some on certain teams that have had a lot of stolen bases against them. Is it their catcher's fault? What if he has a gun of an arm with accuracy to go along with it, and the stolen bases SHOULD be attributed to the pitching staff instead? Don't you think the MLB scouts can account for this with a click of a mouse? Of course they can, because they HAVE to if they intend to compete with the others.

Wouldn't they have written scouting reports that make note of this?

[wsenkow]

Originally Posted by Up here in Canada

Wouldn't they have written scouting reports that make note of this?

I would certainly think so. But those who play stats only may have to account for this in a different way, idk.

I cannot help but wonder if the computer AI is patient with stats-only players. Can you imagine when they check the waiver wire and there are several players of interest? Are they still unclaimed a few hours later when they have done their homework and want to claim one or more of them? I also wonder if that's the way it happens in real life.....other teams will wait for the scouts that take a little longer doing their homework before claiming a player. After all, they may have spent less than $40 on evaluation software so let's all be gentlemanly and wait a few extra hours....isn't that what 'real' scouts and GM's do?

[NotMuchTime]

I never played 'stats only' to make the game more realistic, I did it to mask issues with player evaluation and ovr/pot ratings. The model does NOT reflect scouting in MLB.

Players rated '20' won't ever see the big leagues IRL, yet one team that made it to the playoffs the first year I sim'd, had three starters rated '20'. This is just ONE example.

What's with the draft? In MLBs top 100 prospects (not the draft), there are no 80s, no 75s, and only 2 70s. A '50' is 'replacement level starter', 45 is platoon, 40 is bench, etc... The OVR is suppose to mean something.... An expectation that tries to correlate to WAR.

A third baseman who is rated 65 doesn't just lose a rating at the position overnight.

An OF is OF, it's the way they are rated in the real big leagues. Just OF. If defense is a 65/70 and speed is 60+, then you probably make a good CF. One of the first things I do is force start an outfielder to an outfield spot he doesn't have a rating for so the AI will actually use him there. Suddenly the AI thinks that cool and magically makes him the #2 in the depth chart!!!

When figuring the defense, most managers will start by the most important position, which is usually CF or SS, depending on the manager. Usually 1B and LF are the last. Therefore, you don't put a catcher at SS!!!

If it was done right, a player would have ratings and a GM/Manager would STILL have to look at stats before making player decisions. Over 70% of MLB players are 'replacement level'. In the top prospects list, 19-100 all have the same OVR/POT rating.

How does a scout/manager KNOW when a perennial all-star, who just had a 4 WAR season, is going to stink before spring training begins? Does the scout live with said player and notice he ate and drank too much over the Xmas holidays? Every had you all-star SS, who is making $14M a year, suddenly be #2 (or #3) in the depth chart when spring training starts? OOTP needs to STOP PEAKING at the ratings of veterans! Imagine Derick Jeter (not a NY fan either) sitting the pine his last 2 seasons!! It wouldn't happen, players that earned it, will have LONG leashes.

I could go on, but the rant is over.

[canadian content]

Originally Posted by NotMuchTime

OOTP needs to STOP PEAKING at the ratings of veterans! Imagine Derick Jeter (not a NY fan either) sitting the pine his last 2 seasons!! It wouldn't happen, players that earned it, will have LONG leashes.

Yeah, right....only in New York.



Try telling Ozzie Smith that.

[jpeters1734]

Originally Posted by NotMuchTime

I never played 'stats only' to make the game more realistic, I did it to mask issues with player evaluation and ovr/pot ratings. The model does NOT reflect scouting in MLB.

Players rated '20' won't ever see the big leagues IRL, yet one team that made it to the playoffs the first year I sim'd, had three starters rated '20'. This is just ONE example.

What's with the draft? In MLBs top 100 prospects (not the draft), there are no 80s, no 75s, and only 2 70s. A '50' is 'replacement level starter', 45 is platoon, 40 is bench, etc... The OVR is suppose to mean something.... An expectation that tries to correlate to WAR.

A third baseman who is rated 65 doesn't just lose a rating at the position overnight.

An OF is OF, it's the way they are rated in the real big leagues. Just OF. If defense is a 65/70 and speed is 60+, then you probably make a good CF. One of the first things I do is force start an outfielder to an outfield spot he doesn't have a rating for so the AI will actually use him there. Suddenly the AI thinks that cool and magically makes him the #2 in the depth chart!!!

When figuring the defense, most managers will start by the most important position, which is usually CF or SS, depending on the manager. Usually 1B and LF are the last. Therefore, you don't put a catcher at SS!!!

If it was done right, a player would have ratings and a GM/Manager would STILL have to look at stats before making player decisions. Over 70% of MLB players are 'replacement level'. In the top prospects list, 19-100 all have the same OVR/POT rating.

How does a scout/manager KNOW when a perennial all-star, who just had a 4 WAR season, is going to stink before spring training begins? Does the scout live with said player and notice he ate and drank too much over the Xmas holidays? Every had you all-star SS, who is making $14M a year, suddenly be #2 (or #3) in the depth chart when spring training starts? OOTP needs to STOP PEAKING at the ratings of veterans! Imagine Derick Jeter (not a NY fan either) sitting the pine his last 2 seasons!! It wouldn't happen, players that earned it, will have LONG leashes.

I could go on, but the rant is over.

The first stats only argument that is rooted in common sense. You are spot on. It's not realistic but frankly, neither is the current scouting system with ratings. I do hope the system gets a major overhaul soon.

[BigRed75]

I think the key is that NotMuchTime is upfront in saying that he doesn't play stats-only because he thinks it's more realistic. Sadly, that's counter to the position held by the most ardent SO advocates on these boards, who insist that it is.

And that's giving SO a bad name.

[wsenkow]

Originally Posted by BigRed75

I think the key is that NotMuchTime is upfront in saying that he doesn't play stats-only because he thinks it's more realistic. Sadly, that's counter to the position held by the most ardent SO advocates on these boards, who insist that it is.

And that's giving SO a bad name.

That's true. His posts have displayed a lot of modesty.

[Up here in Canada]

Originally Posted by wsenkow

I would certainly think so. But those who play stats only may have to account for this in a different way, idk.

That's not the point I was trying to make. The SO crowd still rely on written scouting reports. Those reports should talk about catcher's release time or arm strength or, in the case of OOTP, describe how good the catcher's arm is.

[wsenkow]

Originally Posted by Up here in Canada

That's not the point I was trying to make. The SO crowd still rely on written scouting reports. Those reports should talk about catcher's release time or arm strength or, in the case of OOTP, describe how good the catcher's arm is.

I included an 'idk' at the end of my comment because I wasn't sure what they have for written reports, if any. Ootp 17 is a tremendous game in that we all can play with different settings to maximize our enjoyment of it. The issue I have is having 'stats-only' referred to as being more realistic when it isn't.

[Up here in Canada]

Originally Posted by wsenkow

The issue I have is having 'stats-only' referred to as being more realistic when it isn't.

I agree. Stats only is a fun way to play but the entire 'being more realistic' comment is just pure bunk.

[BigRed75]

Originally Posted by Up here in Canada

The SO crowd still rely on written scouting reports.

I'm pretty sure they don't. At least, not the zealots. Hence the "only"

[PSUColonel]

Unfortunately here I am once again looking for some settings to "fix" another issue I have with OOTP.

Based a recent study, it's been determined the draft is rather easy to figure out in terms of player potential. The funny part is, it's not scouting accuracy that's the culprit. In fact, it's just the opposite. Even on normal scouting accuracy, with good scouts, and a pretty healthy budget, the scouts are pretty far off on a lot of players. That's the good news. Are you ready for the bad?

the bad news, is that the generated stats act as a predictor of players' potential ability. From the top to the bottom. If you sort college & HS players (seperately) with WAR for example, you'll essentially be getting a top to bottom list of the prospects in the draft. If you go on scout evaluations, you'll be off by quite a bit...if you go strictly by the stats, you can't lose.

so my question is: to all those who think we should be using low or very low scouting accuracy, what do you think now? I am thinking if anything, perhaps the opposite should be done. At least when it comes to the amateur draft anyway. Perhaps high or very high would now be more appropriate with TCR of 200.

Of course I don't think any of these fiddling with settings should be necessary, and hate that they exist...OOTP should simply be designed in a way that will mimic actual MLB baseball out of the box, without having to fool around with all of this stuff. These aren't even fixes really, they are just ways to hide warts. If the stats in a draft class are a true indicator of potential, then you may as well play with very high scouting accuracy and just have TCR at 200....which isn't really realistic either. But what can you do really?

[nebradska]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

the bad news, is that the generated stats act as a predictor of players' potential ability. From the top to the bottom. If you sort college & HS players (seperately) with WAR for example, you'll essentially be getting a top to bottom list of the prospects in the draft. If you go on scout evaluations, you'll be off by quite a bit...if you go strictly by the stats, you can't lose.

Running feeder leagues would be the easiest fix if your machine can handle it. I'm not sure there's anything we can do about this as players on the front end, though.