Home | Webstore
Latest News: OOTP 25 Available - FHM 10 Available - OOTP Go! Available

Out of the Park Baseball 25 Buy Now!

  

Go Back   OOTP Developments Forums > Prior Versions of Our Games > Franchise Hockey Manager > FHM - General Discussions

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-20-2014, 05:34 PM   #301
IvanIvanovich
Minors (Rookie Ball)
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebastian Palkowski View Post
Sorry, I quoted the wrong post!

About the other thing: give us 13 more years and I'm pretty sure FHM is on one level as OOTP 15 now.
This game is being sold on the reputation earned by OOTP. It's not an unfair assumption by the buyers that they will receive something of the same quality.
IvanIvanovich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2014, 05:37 PM   #302
Sebastian Palkowski
Developer
 
Sebastian Palkowski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 5,090
Quote:
Originally Posted by IvanIvanovich View Post
This game is being sold on the reputation earned by OOTP. It's not an unfair assumption by the buyers that they will receive something of the same quality.
Come on, so we magically build a game in 2 years that is on the same level as a game build in over 15 years?
__________________
Buy Franchise Hockey Manager 10
Sebastian Palkowski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2014, 05:51 PM   #303
IvanIvanovich
Minors (Rookie Ball)
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebastian Palkowski View Post
Come on, so we magically build a game in 2 years that is on the same level as a game build in over 15 years?
That is not what I said.

As a buyer of a new game from a publisher that has a very high reputation (I don't do baseball sims myself so I have only that reputation to go on), I would expect that that new game would include all the lessons about game development that has previously been learned by developing the other games.

I would be very surprised to find that none of all that accumulated knowledge appears to have been used in the making of this game.

I have no desire to start an argument with you or any of the other staff involved in the making of this game but instead as someone that still play EHM I yearn for a game that improves on that experience.

I've stated before and I'll say it again, it saddens me that a game that is billed as a "management game" has very little to do with managing the team. I do hope it will improve and that a design philosophy that can do that will be used.

Ivan

PS. If I were to design such a game as this (which I readily admit to not being capable of) I would sit down and for every decision try to imagine what a GM IRL would want to do and then try to find a good way to emulate that in the game.
IvanIvanovich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2014, 10:29 PM   #304
AlpineSK
All Star Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Bear, DE
Posts: 1,618
The game should not be compared to one that is twelve years old. If you want to say "hey, we're shooting to be at an equal development level to OOTP 6" for example, I can live with that. But aiming to be twelve years behind doesnt compute to me. The game can be compared to one a few years old, but it should then "age" at an exponential rate.

If the EA crew released a new game pointed towards a different FPS genre, they would never say "This game will be as good as Battlefield 1942 was back in 2002."
__________________
Check out my Sims!!

2013 Boston Red Sox

Or my blogs:

http://www.medicsbk.com

The Sports Medic
AlpineSK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2014, 11:46 PM   #305
dave1927p
FHM Moderator
 
dave1927p's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Brantford, ON
Posts: 2,888
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpineSK View Post
The game should not be compared to one that is twelve years old. If you want to say "hey, we're shooting to be at an equal development level to OOTP 6" for example, I can live with that. But aiming to be twelve years behind doesnt compute to me. The game can be compared to one a few years old, but it should then "age" at an exponential rate.

If the EA crew released a new game pointed towards a different FPS genre, they would never say "This game will be as good as Battlefield 1942 was back in 2002."
When FHM was first announced, they did come out and say in many respects it will be comparable to very early OOTP games in terms of features.

It is simply ridiculous comparing OOTP Developments to EA. A text sports sim is a very niche game where only a select few are interested and the complexities that the customers demand for AI is a seemingly impossible demand on it's own. As much as OOTP would love to put even a fraction of what EA spends developing a game, that simply cannot and will never happen.

Like it or not, but for a niche genre such as this, the only way to create a long standing franchise is by building a solid foundation, and slowly each year adding to it. If OOTP hire 1 too many staff member, it could mean the difference between a profit or loss and possibly the demise of the franchise. Comparing that to a 100 million dollar budget, 250 employed AAA game that EA would come out with is simply ludicrous. The business works differently for genres like this as it's the only way for it to survive.
__________________
IN 1964 THE LEAFS WON THE STANLEY CUP :: IT'S ALSO THE YEAR THE CANADIAN FLAG WAS DESIGNED...coincidence?

Last edited by dave1927p; 11-20-2014 at 11:55 PM.
dave1927p is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2014, 11:58 PM   #306
AlpineSK
All Star Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Bear, DE
Posts: 1,618
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave1927p View Post

It is simply ridiculous comparing OOTP Developments to EA.
Its the best example I could come up with on the spot. Obviously OOTP does not compare on a basic scale to a company like EA.. but the concept on a macro vs micro scale in my opinion is a similar one. The game should not be a clone of OOTP and I never said it should, but the reputation and the lessons learned in development, well, those apply.. I agree 100% with Ivan on that one.
__________________
Check out my Sims!!

2013 Boston Red Sox

Or my blogs:

http://www.medicsbk.com

The Sports Medic

Last edited by AlpineSK; 11-20-2014 at 11:59 PM.
AlpineSK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2014, 07:05 AM   #307
Sebastian Palkowski
Developer
 
Sebastian Palkowski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 5,090
It is the last I write on this topic because we had all this in the past and I don't want to talk the same topic over and over again with 5 user but instand work on the game for 10.000+ user.

Of course we don't aim for a game that is 6 years old, we want to be better. But comparing us with games, that have 15+ years of development is unfair and will not work. EA just released NHL Hockey that removed a lot of previous features because there was not enough time to port it to the ps4 and Xbox. They are a big Company with many people working on the game and have problems. The new Elite game just announced that they throw out the promised Singleplayer Mode and they got almost 2 Million from kickstarter. Thats how game Development works.

We will do our best to learn from our errors, concentrate on the main features, keep it simple and improve over time.

We will not make everyone happy, thats ok as long as the majority is enjoing the game it is good.

Thats it for me now, as I said above, it makes no sense to continue this conversation as you guys have your opinion (which is fine) and I (and others) have our and we will not get on one page. So lets talk game or hockey.
__________________
Buy Franchise Hockey Manager 10

Last edited by Sebastian Palkowski; 11-21-2014 at 07:06 AM.
Sebastian Palkowski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2014, 08:09 AM   #308
Orioles1966
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,869
Is a two-team expansion still a go for the final patch?

Will editing be improved on the final patch or will we still be hand-cuffed too do transactions on only one day(July 1st) for the whole year and season?
Orioles1966 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2014, 09:36 AM   #309
Mordrehl
Minors (Triple A)
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebastian Palkowski View Post
So lets talk game or hockey.
I'm pretty sure they were talking about the game .... but yeah, I guess you meant talk about the game as long as we're in agreement with you?
Mordrehl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2014, 09:43 AM   #310
Mordrehl
Minors (Triple A)
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by dumbrabbit View Post
I find it hilarious that a guy with 173 posts thinks he knows more about being a game developer and knows more about managing a game development business than the actual developers of FHM.


I tried FHM(hockey really isn't my thing) for a little bit It was great the demo that I played in. It has a lot of potential. Why are we even comparing FHM to OOTP?
You played the demo .... how about you fork out cash, be here from release day and experience first hand the trials and tribulations of this game before you judge ... the game is still in a state that is simply unenjoyable to play for most ... the silence on these forums tells the story ... you have more activity from posters talking about their fantasy seasons on fansites for EHM than you do FHM. EHM is close to 8 years old.

We've been close to 6 months going with a promise of a "big patch" ... instead of smaller incremental patches that address the myriad of issues this software has. There are bugs and flawed game mechanics that have existed from beta which imply a failure by the developers to understand some of the basics of professional hockey at the NHL level (contracts, RFA's etc have been a mess since release).

So yeah, you can scoff and say I don't know more than developers (you have no idea about that though do you? I could very well be a software developer). My 173 posts as being insignificant instead of an indication that I signed up for these forums specifically for FHM over a year ago and my lack of robust posting is from sheer frustration with the state of the game and the attitude of the devs. I mean you have twice the posts I do ... yet Thanked 72x in 40 posts for you, and thanked 104 in 50 posts for myself ... draw your own conclusion of who's posts resonate more with people and touch on reality rather than blind faith in the company.

Last edited by Mordrehl; 11-21-2014 at 09:48 AM.
Mordrehl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2014, 10:49 AM   #311
dave1927p
FHM Moderator
 
dave1927p's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Brantford, ON
Posts: 2,888
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordrehl View Post
You played the demo .... how about you fork out cash, be here from release day and experience first hand the trials and tribulations of this game before you judge ... the game is still in a state that is simply unenjoyable to play for most ... the silence on these forums tells the story ... you have more activity from posters talking about their fantasy seasons on fansites for EHM than you do FHM. EHM is close to 8 years old.

We've been close to 6 months going with a promise of a "big patch" ... instead of smaller incremental patches that address the myriad of issues this software has. There are bugs and flawed game mechanics that have existed from beta which imply a failure by the developers to understand some of the basics of professional hockey at the NHL level (contracts, RFA's etc have been a mess since release).

So yeah, you can scoff and say I don't know more than developers (you have no idea about that though do you? I could very well be a software developer). My 173 posts as being insignificant instead of an indication that I signed up for these forums specifically for FHM over a year ago and my lack of robust posting is from sheer frustration with the state of the game and the attitude of the devs. I mean you have twice the posts I do ... yet Thanked 72x in 40 posts for you, and thanked 104 in 50 posts for myself ... draw your own conclusion of who's posts resonate more with people and touch on reality rather than blind faith in the company.
Mordrehl - there are people out there that are content with the game. You are not alone in some of your feelings, but just because you are unhappy does not mean that most find the game unenjoyable.

And post count doesn't matter what so ever.
__________________
IN 1964 THE LEAFS WON THE STANLEY CUP :: IT'S ALSO THE YEAR THE CANADIAN FLAG WAS DESIGNED...coincidence?

Last edited by dave1927p; 11-21-2014 at 11:00 AM.
dave1927p is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2014, 11:04 AM   #312
SushamiBoy
Minors (Triple A)
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 200
I'm sorry I sparked this debate again Sebastian. It was not my plan. I simply wanted to mention that I felt that given how long we had waited, one last roster update would have gone a long way to sate those who have waited. You do not agree and that is fine. Either way I, like others here, will wait and get the patch. We will probably purchase the next version, and the one after that. That is the thing for myself and many others, we sound ungrateful and sound like we appreciate nothing, but please don't take it as such, we are an extremely passionate bunch. Some of us had grown to be friends in the EHM days and compared notes, strategies, and dynasties. We're happy you are part of that, for the good and the bad. Forgive our passion as we work through the understandable shortcomings of a first volume.

As for the editing of rosters, I will make one suggestion, it does not solve the fact that I would not get the rookies from the last draft on my team, but it would appease many. Now this feature may exist and I did not notice it, if so I apologize. What if you added a feature in game to remove the other GMs decision in a trade. Like an auto-approve feature. I start a new campaign, turn on auto-approve, make all the trades I want to get my team to be how it is now, then I can turn it back off an play in full simulation. It would not be a full on editor, just allows more leeway and stops some grumbling. It is how I used to do it in EA's NHL, before the season I would do all my trades and then start my season with what I wanted. The way I suggest would not make it before the season and therefore not add a full new feature, just a setting to your season. Then if you start a campaign, you have to do it again because it does not alter the database, just the single campaign.

I don't think any of us has ever played a flawless game. Let alone a hockey game. While we herald EA's NHL, we should all remember that by the end of any version we could win most games 10-0. All new features had bugs, like the wrap-around being an instant goal at some point, the one-timer has always been overpowered. In EHM how many of us have had seasons where our first line was getting 150 points each? I know I have, or I have seen screen shots of 100 goal seasons. I could take almost any team in EHM and win the cup in 2 seasons. I could trade for the first overall pick any season I want. 2K Sports was a pain the first 2 years. So yes, we grumble but Sebastian is right on some points, they are infants in this world and we compare them to giants.

But I say this to all involved in this development, our passion is strong, we are not maybe as entitled as we think, but understand us as well, this has nothing to do with the money for most of us, this is about hockey, which for a Montrealer like me, is a religion. We will be loud and we will be vocal, but we will be faithful.

Last edited by SushamiBoy; 11-21-2014 at 11:33 AM.
SushamiBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2014, 03:52 PM   #313
Alessandro
Hall Of Famer
 
Alessandro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 6,373
Quote:
Originally Posted by SushamiBoy View Post

As for the editing of rosters, I will make one suggestion, it does not solve the fact that I would not get the rookies from the last draft on my team, but it would appease many. Now this feature may exist and I did not notice it, if so I apologize. What if you added a feature in game to remove the other GMs decision in a trade. Like an auto-approve feature. I start a new campaign, turn on auto-approve, make all the trades I want to get my team to be how it is now, then I can turn it back off an play in full simulation.
Commissioner mode
Alessandro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2014, 11:29 PM   #314
Mordrehl
Minors (Triple A)
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave1927p View Post
Mordrehl - there are people out there that are content with the game. You are not alone in some of your feelings, but just because you are unhappy does not mean that most find the game unenjoyable.

And post count doesn't matter what so ever.
Exactly. I come back every now and again hoping for something which is why my post count means nothing.

One day, if they keep at it .. maybe we'll have a product as good as OOTP14/15 ... right now, we don't. My frustration is with the process, the long bouts of silence, etc etc
Mordrehl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2014, 05:45 AM   #315
Sebastian Palkowski
Developer
 
Sebastian Palkowski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 5,090
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordrehl View Post
Exactly. I come back every now and again hoping for something which is why my post count means nothing.

One day, if they keep at it .. maybe we'll have a product as good as OOTP14/15 ... right now, we don't. My frustration is with the process, the long bouts of silence, etc etc
Must resist to write my real feelings about your post.

Yes, you are right.
__________________
Buy Franchise Hockey Manager 10
Sebastian Palkowski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2014, 09:28 AM   #316
moore4807
All Star Starter
 
moore4807's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Punta Gorda FL.
Posts: 1,382
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordrehl View Post
One day, if they keep at it .. maybe we'll have a product as good as OOTP14/15 ... right now, we don't. My frustration is with the process, the long bouts of silence, etc etc
Mordrehl,

I think you need to step back and look at this empirically - it's only a game, not life...

Yes I am disappointed too. Balanced by the knowledge that they have posted in general terms what the FHM plans are, I don't have a beef with that. Look we get it. I last posted here asking if I could look for this update for Christmas, and they wisely said they couldn't say... That IS OK...

I am around 50% positive in my postings, or I refrain from posting after I have made my point. HOW many times do you feel the need to point out someone else's failings?
Does it do something for you? Are you really that narcissistic?

This game may not be for you, but it does have people playing it, warts and all. Yes it has shortcomings and I simply work around them or move on until the craving starts up again and I click on the FHM shortcut and try it again.

And as a side benefit for me... The older I get the quicker my memory fails me and I wonder why I wasn't playing this game more often... <grin>

Last edited by moore4807; 11-22-2014 at 09:32 AM. Reason: last thoughts
moore4807 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2014, 04:02 PM   #317
Jagorix
Bat Boy
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordrehl View Post
Exactly. I come back every now and again hoping for something which is why my post count means nothing.

One day, if they keep at it .. maybe we'll have a product as good as OOTP14/15 ... right now, we don't. My frustration is with the process, the long bouts of silence, etc etc
good thing posts like these really boost morale for the devs, you're really doing your part in ensuring the success of FHM, great job! It must be easy sleeping for you at night. Most big game devs out there wouldn't give a flying **** that Mordrehl was unhappy with their product. These ones do yet you sure won't let them forget it.
Jagorix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2014, 11:29 AM   #318
sylph
Bat Boy
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2
So, when should I expect the new game? Summer 2015?
sylph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2014, 11:53 AM   #319
Sebastian Palkowski
Developer
 
Sebastian Palkowski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 5,090
Quote:
Originally Posted by sylph View Post
So, when should I expect the new game? Summer 2015?
Whenever it is ready and we are happy with it.
__________________
Buy Franchise Hockey Manager 10
Sebastian Palkowski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2014, 04:42 PM   #320
Hadehariast
Minors (Single A)
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 63
Moving back towards talk of the 2014 patch...

1) Should we expect the changes to the match engine to radically change the usefulness of certain players? Earlier, enforcers weren't fighting as much as they do in real life, for instance. Should we expect to see more of that, for instance?

2) Related to that, should we expect to see players like Steve Ott and Antoine Roussel have a little more value to their respective teams because they can perform their sort of hybrid enforcer/pest/secondary scorer roles better?

3) Is it worthwhile playing out a save several years into the future at this point? I'm hesitant to do so, because I don't want to see a patch come out shortly that will require a restart for best results. I presume that any patch will be save game compatible, but I know from previous experience that a fresh start is almost always preferrable.
Hadehariast is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:12 AM.

 

Major League and Minor League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with permission of Major League Baseball. Visit MLB.com and MiLB.com.

Officially Licensed Product – MLB Players, Inc.

Out of the Park Baseball is a registered trademark of Out of the Park Developments GmbH & Co. KG

Google Play is a trademark of Google Inc.

Apple, iPhone, iPod touch and iPad are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries.

COPYRIGHT © 2023 OUT OF THE PARK DEVELOPMENTS. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

 

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright © 2020 Out of the Park Developments