Going with no closer

sharknut · 03-02-2019, 11:55 AM

Has anyone setup their bullpen to have everyone be 'middle relief' and not assign a setup or closer role for anyone? Been doing this a few weeks and I am getting more points for shutouts. Historically, I seem to lose a lot of PP in the 9th innings of shutouts in blowouts when my starter has a shutout going and gives up 1 baserunner and the AI yanks him for the last out or 2.

Dunzie · 03-02-2019, 02:58 PM

I haven't but it's interesting. I've seen a few people doing very different things than typical for their bullpens and often it's teams that have been successful. I'm too much of a chicken to stray from the norm I guess.

The_Savage_1 · 03-03-2019, 08:07 AM

I have but then I realised that I was probably missing out on the PP for the achievement of your closer striking out the side. I then changed my entire bullpen to closers for a while and because I had numerous decent relievers but no standout. Then I got Treinen who is now my sole closer so back to "normal".

I play in a maxed out stadium offensively so shutouts are a rarity so I can't really help you with any observations in that department but as a bullpen strategy it seemed to work fine with a bunch of similar quality relievers.

Kushiel · 03-03-2019, 08:10 AM

I think the Aqua Sox use that strategy with all starters in the BP. Maybe Twinsfan will see this and advise you.

sharknut · 03-03-2019, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Savage_1

I have but then I realised that I was probably missing out on the PP for the achievement of your closer striking out the side. I then changed my entire bullpen to closers for a while and because I had numerous decent relievers but no standout. Then I got Treinen who is now my sole closer so back to "normal".

To clarify, all my relievers ARE closers (except for Dierker in long relief), but I assign them all the middle reliever role.

The_Savage_1 · 03-03-2019, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharknut

To clarify, all my relievers ARE closers (except for Dierker in long relief), but I assign them all the middle reliever role.

Yes, first I had my entire bullpen assigned as MR and then I changed the entire bullpen (essentially the same group of guys) to be assigned as Closer.

sharknut · 03-03-2019, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Savage_1

Yes, first I had my entire bullpen assigned as MR and then I changed the entire bullpen (essentially the same group of guys) to be assigned as Closer.

What affect did that have?

The_Savage_1 · 03-03-2019, 10:46 PM

Well, for me, it seemed exactly the same (all MR and all Closer). It basically means everyone is equally available at all times and the AI selects the best option at all times (I guess factoring fatigue, quality, LR match-up etc).

The reason I swapped was to try and maximise the PP from the closer striking out the side achievement. I could be wrong but I sensed that you have to have the particular pitcher who achieves it set as Closer for it to trigger because when I had everyone as MR it seemed I never got it (but I wasn't paying close attention so could be wrong).

However, your OP made particular reference to whether this assisted shutouts and I can't help with that as I rarely get any playing in a max offense ballpark. Like I said above, though, it did seem like an effective bullpen strategy, especially with no clear cut closer and a bunch of relievers of similar quality.

From memory I had no secondary roles set when they were all MR (maybe I had the lefties as specialists) and when they were all Closers I had secondary roles set for all of them... MR for righties and specialist for lefties - no setup or long relief. Even now with a "normal" bullpen strategy I rarely use setup, long relief or stopper... just a closer and a bunch of MR and vL specialists.

reo · 03-03-2019, 11:50 PM

I don't assign everyone to middle relief, but I no longer use a closer, only a stopper, which is what a bullpen-by-committee uses.

sharknut · 03-04-2019, 06:49 PM

On the team that I planned to go with no closer, I've thrown 2 CG shutouts in the first 2 weeks, so that's got me 200 pts so far. In the league where I HAD a closer, Doolittle blew opening night so I overreacted and set up that team with no closer and they have 1 CG shutout so far. I'm sticking with it for a while.

Zorro · 03-05-2019, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reo

I don't assign everyone to middle relief, but I no longer use a closer, only a stopper, which is what a bullpen-by-committee uses.

Yeah, I don’t assign a closer also. I never could find one who really was lights out so what was the point? They all seem to be under 90 pct in blown saves when I used them.

elutz31 · 03-05-2019, 10:40 PM

No closer here either. I like the freedom of having them come in as needed. I set them to high leverage if I want my better relievers coming in to pitch when it matters. Though all my pitchers are relievers so I also do it so they can pitch if everyone else is tired and not locked into the 8th and 9th only.

Kushiel · 03-07-2019, 05:40 PM

I made my bullpen all MR this week with no secondary roles and they are giving me a 2.79 ERA even with my park factors set this week at full offense.

The_Savage_1 · 03-07-2019, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kushiel

I made my bullpen all MR this week with no secondary roles and they are giving me a 2.79 ERA even with my park factors set this week at full offense.

Keep an eye out whether you get the closer striking out the side achievement, otherwise you might consider making them all closers with no secondaries.

Kushiel · 03-08-2019, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Savage_1

Keep an eye out whether you get the closer striking out the side achievement, otherwise you might consider making them all closers with no secondaries.

Kimbrel 96 and R. Johnson 97 have both struck out the side for the lower achievement but I do not have the gold perfect 9 pitch inning yet.

Neezer · 03-08-2019, 11:44 AM

I cant say for PT, but when I play OOTP, I go with and L and R stoppers and no closer. The rest MRs. And maybe one for Long Relief for when the SP tanks and the game is a blowout loss. I contend you want to stop big innings regardless of when they are.

The_Savage_1 · 03-10-2019, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kushiel

Kimbrel 96 and R. Johnson 97 have both struck out the side for the lower achievement but I do not have the gold perfect 9 pitch inning yet.

Cool, so it's confirmed you don't need to be assigned as a Closer to trigger the closer striking out the side achievement.

bobbycockstrong · 03-10-2019, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Savage_1

Cool, so it's confirmed you don't need to be assigned as a Closer to trigger the closer striking out the side achievement.

Ive had "long reliever" get a strike out the side achievement.

*Edit* I think maybe it was leave bases loaded, i cant recall whoops

Matt Arnold · 03-10-2019, 01:04 PM

K the side is anytime someone comes in, faces 3 batters, gets 3ks, and gets the save (ie K's the side to close out the game). Forgot if they have to start the inning or potentially can still get it if someone else started, but has nothing to do with player roles.

zrog2000 · 03-10-2019, 01:19 PM

I just got two "Leave them Loaded" achievements in the same inning. Maddux loaded the bases with one out. Corbin came in to get LHB Ralph Garr to hit into a 4-2 force out. Then Medina came in to get Mike Trout to ground out to 2nd.

03-02-2019, 11:55 AM	#1
sharknut All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 788 Blog Entries: 1	Going with no closer Has anyone setup their bullpen to have everyone be 'middle relief' and not assign a setup or closer role for anyone? Been doing this a few weeks and I am getting more points for shutouts. Historically, I seem to lose a lot of PP in the 9th innings of shutouts in blowouts when my starter has a shutout going and gives up 1 baserunner and the AI yanks him for the last out or 2.

03-03-2019, 08:10 AM	#4
Kushiel All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Deep in the Heart of Texas Posts: 1,697	I think the Aqua Sox use that strategy with all starters in the BP. Maybe Twinsfan will see this and advise you. __________________ *Favente Deo supero*

03-03-2019, 10:46 PM	#8
The_Savage_1 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Australia Posts: 152	Well, for me, it seemed exactly the same (all MR and all Closer). It basically means everyone is equally available at all times and the AI selects the best option at all times (I guess factoring fatigue, quality, LR match-up etc). The reason I swapped was to try and maximise the PP from the closer striking out the side achievement. I could be wrong but I sensed that you have to have the particular pitcher who achieves it set as Closer for it to trigger because when I had everyone as MR it seemed I never got it (but I wasn't paying close attention so could be wrong). However, your OP made particular reference to whether this assisted shutouts and I can't help with that as I rarely get any playing in a max offense ballpark. Like I said above, though, it did seem like an effective bullpen strategy, especially with no clear cut closer and a bunch of relievers of similar quality. From memory I had no secondary roles set when they were all MR (maybe I had the lefties as specialists) and when they were all Closers I had secondary roles set for all of them... MR for righties and specialist for lefties - no setup or long relief. Even now with a "normal" bullpen strategy I rarely use setup, long relief or stopper... just a closer and a bunch of MR and vL specialists. Last edited by The_Savage_1; 03-03-2019 at 10:48 PM.

03-03-2019, 11:50 PM	#9
reo Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Northern California (east bay) Posts: 206	I don't assign everyone to middle relief, but I no longer use a closer, only a stopper, which is what a bullpen-by-committee uses. __________________ Richie Renard: Come on Bobby! Hit a Home Run! Gil Renard: Don't get greedy, son. Don't get greedy. What we need now is a sacrifice. A winning team has to know how to manufacture runs. Coop taught me that. He used to say the most beautiful play in the game is a sacrifice fly, and you know why? Richie Renard: 'Cause you give yourself up for the team? Gil Renard: And it doesn't even count against your average. That's why baseball's better than life - it's fair.

03-07-2019, 05:40 PM	#13
Kushiel All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Deep in the Heart of Texas Posts: 1,697	I made my bullpen all MR this week with no secondary roles and they are giving me a 2.79 ERA even with my park factors set this week at full offense. __________________ *Favente Deo supero*

03-02-2019, 02:58 PM	#2
Dunzie All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Guelph, ON, CAN Posts: 588	I haven't but it's interesting. I've seen a few people doing very different things than typical for their bullpens and often it's teams that have been successful. I'm too much of a chicken to stray from the norm I guess.

03-03-2019, 08:07 AM	#3
The_Savage_1 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Australia Posts: 152	I have but then I realised that I was probably missing out on the PP for the achievement of your closer striking out the side. I then changed my entire bullpen to closers for a while and because I had numerous decent relievers but no standout. Then I got Treinen who is now my sole closer so back to "normal". I play in a maxed out stadium offensively so shutouts are a rarity so I can't really help you with any observations in that department but as a bullpen strategy it seemed to work fine with a bunch of similar quality relievers.

03-04-2019, 06:49 PM	#10
sharknut All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 788 Blog Entries: 1	On the team that I planned to go with no closer, I've thrown 2 CG shutouts in the first 2 weeks, so that's got me 200 pts so far. In the league where I HAD a closer, Doolittle blew opening night so I overreacted and set up that team with no closer and they have 1 CG shutout so far. I'm sticking with it for a while.

03-05-2019, 10:40 PM	#12
elutz31 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 106	No closer here either. I like the freedom of having them come in as needed. I set them to high leverage if I want my better relievers coming in to pitch when it matters. Though all my pitchers are relievers so I also do it so they can pitch if everyone else is tired and not locked into the 8th and 9th only.

03-08-2019, 11:44 AM	#16
Neezer Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2019 Posts: 115	I cant say for PT, but when I play OOTP, I go with and L and R stoppers and no closer. The rest MRs. And maybe one for Long Relief for when the SP tanks and the game is a blowout loss. I contend you want to stop big innings regardless of when they are.

03-10-2019, 01:04 PM	#19
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 14,145	K the side is anytime someone comes in, faces 3 batters, gets 3ks, and gets the save (ie K's the side to close out the game). Forgot if they have to start the inning or potentially can still get it if someone else started, but has nothing to do with player roles.

03-10-2019, 01:19 PM	#20
zrog2000 All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2018 Posts: 1,335	I just got two "Leave them Loaded" achievements in the same inning. Maddux loaded the bases with one out. Corbin came in to get LHB Ralph Garr to hit into a 4-2 force out. Then Medina came in to get Mike Trout to ground out to 2nd. Attached Images