Competitive balance discussion

[mcdog512]

Originally Posted by Kushiel

You can always get Ty Cobb here in OOTP 20 but you may not be able to get a card from the greatest player to ever become a manager.

Yea, I just made an ebay offer on McGraw....T206 card.

[madjac74]

Originally Posted by Kushiel

I am always in the baseball mood

Im seasonal...I love my Cowboys and generally any football action.

Thats why I cant wait for this new front office football

[bobbycockstrong]

Originally Posted by Zorro

He pitch 16 innings and yes he was a luxury to use against left handed hitters. My point is all the perfect cards in the world will not win you everything unless you know how to use them. I tried to help by telling you about the guy with 22 perfects and 3 diamonds. I have played against good (Smart) teams who had no perfects and few diamonds and platooned his gold and silver. I have a good team but I am in a league where everyone has a good team. What is funny is the best teams (Winners) have way less perfect and silver cards then all these people complain about. I really believe if people would work as hard as they complain they would have a competitive team also. I will stop now because I am sure nobody cares to listens except for the players who already know this. I am really nobody to give advice anyhow. I just really enjoy the thrill of this game and wish everyone enjoyed it like I do....

I hear you, im not criticizing you - thats why there is someone in first and someone in last in perfect leagues. All else equal - Better players will theoretically get, if not to the WS win, into the playoffs/towards the top of the league. And, again all else equal, better players will adapt and consistently do well.

From what I can tell, people seem to complain because they are completely overmatched and dont have the resources to compete with some of the teams in perfect league, perhaps including yours.

And for me thats fine, but then some of these super team users just say stuff like "well get good/do your homework/you need to get better/use platoons/yada yada". But the point is, and why I will keep defending them from a neutral's perspective, is that you can be good and do your homework, and do everything you are supposed to do, but still be completely outmatched if you are facing teams that have a massive PP roster value advantage over you. Its not just perfects/diamonds. The best silvers and the best golds cost just as much as diamonds and perfects in some cases. Its simply a matter of resources.

And if you have those resources, its easy to shrug it off and call people crybabies (not saying you did, but others have) and tell them to do their homework. But when you dont have access to those resources (whether it be because you dont spend money or havent had pack luck), then I can see why people are aggrieved and feel like they have no chance to compete.

For me its easy to see and understand that. It doesnt mean you have to agree with them or cater to them, but it shouldnt be too difficult to actually understand the position because its pretty clear to me at least. But people continue to blow it off. I have a hard time believing anyone can honestly say that a team worth 500k PP value and a 40k PP team are fair/equal. Thats why people complain.

[mcdog512]

Originally Posted by mcdog512

Yea, I just made an ebay offer on McGraw....T206 card.

Offer accepted so no Ty Cobb for me but a T206 McGraw on the way.

[bailey]

Originally Posted by mcdog512

Offer accepted so no Ty Cobb for me but a T206 McGraw on the way.

And the only proper thing to do now, is to put in your bicycle spokes.

[Kushiel]

Originally Posted by mcdog512

Offer accepted so no Ty Cobb for me but a T206 McGraw on the way.

Congrats I am both happy for you and jealous.

[uschi_baerchen]

Originally Posted by Zorro

The overall of the cards means nothing.There is a team in my league who has 22 perfects and the other 3 were diamonds and he had the fourth best record in the league. In fact he finished 12 games behind me and I have 3 silver and 3 golds on my roster. I would say over 70 pct of the perfect cards are really garbage cards so you can’t go by that.

OK, so he has Betts but not Trout I assume? This guy most probably made already a serious unforced error in that he threw 1,5 wins per Saison out of the window for naught. To be specific: Bett and Trout are must have no-brainers. Every sane Player will have them eventually (it might take a year to collect the PP, I know, I know), but I Can think of no Situation were my RF is so bad and my CF is so good that I would buy Betts before Trout.

[Zorro]

Originally Posted by uschi_baerchen

but I Can think of no Situation were my RF is so bad and my CF is so good that I would buy Betts before Trout.

The good teams in perfect league (Mine anyway) do not even use Betts as a right fielder. He can play multiple positions and right field is easy to replace. As far as Trout goes , His arm is terrible for a CF and his hitting attributes can be replaced easily by platooning two others so a lot of teams in my league don’t even bother with him. At all.

[Westheim]

Originally Posted by bailey

And the only proper thing to do now, is to put in your bicycle spokes.

The Horror.

[Zorro]

Originally Posted by bailey

And the only proper thing to do now, is to put in your bicycle spokes.

Too funny, Those were the days. I bent so many Mays and Mantle cards doing that. Lol...

[Kushiel]

I figured this latest post started about those dastardly whales was headed for "The Black Whole" of PT where it belongs.

[Thalion]

I had a Nolan Ryan rookie card that probably met that fate.

[mcdog512]

Originally Posted by Zorro

Too funny, Those were the days. I bent so many Mays and Mantle cards doing that. Lol...

Given this is a PSA graded brick, It would break out all the spokes.....

[uschi_baerchen]

Originally Posted by Zorro

The good teams in perfect league (Mine anyway) do not even use Betts as a right fielder. He can play multiple positions and right field is easy to replace. As far as Trout goes , His arm is terrible for a CF and his hitting attributes can be replaced easily by platooning two others so a lot of teams in my league don’t even bother with him. At all.

THX a lot, so far for me to suppose I am so clever instead of looking what other guys use instead of trout (and maybe the platoon is cheaper than 25000PP).

[claykallam@gmail.com]

This may have been brought up before ... if so, I apologize.

I think there should be a different league for those who spend money buying points. If you want to burn a few hundred dollars, you are pretty much guaranteed to pick up some quality players, which is fine -- but I'm not in a position to do that, and I'd like to compete against people who are playing the same (non-financial) game.

Now obviously it's to OOTP's advantage to generate as much income as possible, and maybe it would hurt the bottom line to segregate the spenders from the non-spenders, so maybe a limit (like poker tables) would make sense. You could play in a no-limit league, or a $100 per year league, or whatever.

But in general, I think it would make sense to separate those who spend real money from those who don't ...

[Maddox]

Not only has it been brought up, it has been beaten into a pulp and eventually buried.

The bottom line is that they have said that it will not happen.

They do allow you to make friends and be placed in leagues with them so some people are using that option for themed teams and other special rules teams

[webdox]

I felt similarly until I played a little more, came here to educate myself (I still learn new things about this mode on a daily basis), and understood those PayFor teams rise to the top rather quickly and will never be seen from again in your league. Once you have amassed enough points for free and start adding the correct players and not just ones that speak to you, you will start enjoying things more and be much more competitive. There are several players who have figured out how to be very competitive at the highest level employing the correct rosters and the correct time. Brilliant in some cases probably without having spent a dime...

I became what I hated within 8 weeks and started letting the PayPal model of have fun now worry about the $$ $ later take over. My results are slightly better and pretty much what I paid for. I am comfortable with it, my wife would not be if she knew wink wink

I'm a much better person for it now albeit much poorer...

[<Pion>]

To add a bit to the reasons and difficulties...

- Where do you draw the line on money. Does a guy who spent $5 get thrown in with the guys that spend 100's or 1000's?

- A player can be extremely lucky and pull something like a Perfect Pedro or Ruth in his first pack, sell the player, and have 100's of thousands of PP to spend n players. So what happens to him, does he get sent to the money league even though never spending a dime. If left in the non-money leagues, he would have easy pickings given that he faces only free players that can't compete with his team. The way it is now, he eventually gets to Perfect (most likely) and competes against others of his equal regardless of whether they spent a lot, a little, or none at all.

As it is now, teams eventually reach the leagues of their equal abilities. So a F2P player will end up playing against those who either spent none as well, spent very little, or spent more but unwisely. Regardless of how they got there, they end up in the correct spot. Or you can do as mentioned above and start a friends league with your own set of guidelines/rules.

[Dunzie]

Here’s the thing. I have one team that I spent some money on. Not the kind of money that SOME people have, but some. Then I have two teams that I BUILT and only in a couple rare circumstances when a player I really wanted to add was JUST outside my reach I grabbed a couple thousand PP to make it happen before they disappeared from the auction. My first team advanced through the levels quicker, granted. But they were now up against stiffer competition. So I had to pay a little more to get better players because those cheaper bang for the buck players were now not competitive. Meanwhile my other two teams advanced at a similar slower pace and as of today they’re both still in Diamond while my Perfect team has won a PL Championship and generally has made playoffs most years there.

But here’s the thing. I’m having just as much or more fun with my two Diamondbteams week to week and both are now extremely competitive in Diamond. And while I haven’t won a Diamond championship yet I feel like I’m at least in the running (one won Gold and the other has been runner up). And now I feel like I’ve spent the time to get to know what players to target and how to tweak my team that I’m really enjoying those two, plus with the new friends list reseeding option it’s even better.

Long story short if your goal is to get the best players quick and advance to Perfect, yeah you won’t enjoy the fact that some people spend a lot of money. If your goal is to take your time week to week and keep building you team at a reasonable pace, don’t worry that someone always seems to spend money on Perfect Pedro and 1920 Ruth. They’ll be gone soon and you can focus on your team.

My two cents...

[OMGPuppies]

Originally Posted by Dunzie

Here’s the thing. I have one team that I spent some money on. Not the kind of money that SOME people have, but some. Then I have two teams that I BUILT and only in a couple rare circumstances when a player I really wanted to add was JUST outside my reach I grabbed a couple thousand PP to make it happen before they disappeared from the auction. My first team advanced through the levels quicker, granted. But they were now up against stiffer competition. So I had to pay a little more to get better players because those cheaper bang for the buck players were now not competitive. Meanwhile my other two teams advanced at a similar slower pace and as of today they’re both still in Diamond while my Perfect team has won a PL Championship and generally has made playoffs most years there.

But here’s the thing. I’m having just as much or more fun with my two Diamondbteams week to week and both are now extremely competitive in Diamond. And while I haven’t won a Diamond championship yet I feel like I’m at least in the running (one won Gold and the other has been runner up). And now I feel like I’ve spent the time to get to know what players to target and how to tweak my team that I’m really enjoying those two, plus with the new friends list reseeding option it’s even better.

Long story short if your goal is to get the best players quick and advance to Perfect, yeah you won’t enjoy the fact that some people spend a lot of money. If your goal is to take your time week to week and keep building you team at a reasonable pace, don’t worry that someone always seems to spend money on Perfect Pedro and 1920 Ruth. They’ll be gone soon and you can focus on your team.

My two cents...

I am in my second season and i faced the same question. I decided not to spend money and take the time to bring my team up. I didn't want to get into an arms race with whales. I also remembered my experience playing Championship Manager. I had more fun playing a nobody team and trying to find the diamonds in the rough to get promoted to the top division than I did playing a filthy rich team already in the top division that had trouble competing with other filthy rich teams.