2003 Rosters: Give Me Some Test Prospects - Page 8

Sabathia · 01-18-2003, 04:33 PM

Oh yeah, forgot that Guthrie hasn't pitched yet. How about Billy Traber? He's had some nice stats, and I wanna see if he's ML ready. Also, Lee looks good. He should become a great strikeout pitcher.

GForce22 · 01-19-2003, 07:21 AM

I'm done with testing the hitter sheets, but here's Brendan Harris.

Code:

Brendan Harris
AB	H	2B	3B	HR	BB	SO	AVG
550	165	35	4	26	61	84	0.3
550	121	30	5	11	37	97	0.22
Talent    G	G	F	G	A	A

And, probably the last test pitcher, Billy Traber.

Code:

AB	H	2B	HR	BB	SO   	AVG
550	143	22	12	33	128	0.26
550	194	30	16	45	90	0.353
Talent      A	G	G	B	G

Potentials (raw) on top, currents in middle, talent rating on bottom.

Traber would likely fare better than this in the majors right now, though I would give him more minor league time. He gets "penalized" for only having pitched 2 years. That is written into the sheets to keep me from rating guys with 1 year pitching experience as current stars.

GH

gpm22 · 01-19-2003, 01:30 PM

I think your pitcher's averages and K's are ok, but I think that the other stats need to be lowered.

Crapshoot · 01-19-2003, 02:14 PM

GeForce, looking through the sheets again, I realize that's there only one potential problem; college pitchers get punished for being older and closer to the majors. They have pitched less in the minors, and usually make the majors a lot faster (and have far less risk) than high school pitchers. You were mentioning that guys who have pitched 2 years as opposed to 3 get penalized; in a sense, a lot of the top college guys make it that soon. Im curious as to what your reading is on this.

Highlifeman21 · 01-19-2003, 04:46 PM

hey Geforce, why don't you spend some time updating salary info? it's ridiculous that thome is gonna be a free agent after 1 year with the phils making 100,000..... i think that should be the biggest issue right now instead of dealing with paltry requests for horrible prospects like brandon larson

I Am The Game · 01-19-2003, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Highlifeman21
hey Geforce, why don't you spend some time updating salary info? it's ridiculous that thome is gonna be a free agent after 1 year with the phils making 100,000..... i think that should be the biggest issue right now instead of dealing with paltry requests for horrible prospects like brandon larson

Chill out. He is just getting requests for Larson (who is a solid 3B prospect, fyi, forced a Todd Walker trade and will be given the first shot at a starting job in Cincy) so we can all see his numbers, and then comment in if we think they are too high, too low, etc. After he gets the prospects set he can put them into the game, THEN maybe salary info can be edited. These are OOTP5 rosters anyway, so you still got at least a month and a half to wait.

GForce22 · 01-19-2003, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Highlifeman21
hey Geforce, why don't you spend some time updating salary info? it's ridiculous that thome is gonna be a free agent after 1 year with the phils making 100,000..... i think that should be the biggest issue right now instead of dealing with paltry requests for horrible prospects like brandon larson

Wow...you couldn't be dumber.

a) I haven't done a set with Thome on the Phils, so don't know where you get that from
b) If you think Larson is a horrible prospect then you know nothing about the minors
c) your attitude is that of a punk, which I'm guessing is not far from the truth.

Run along, kid. You're wasting people's time.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Aadik,

I understand your point and I think it is likely my fault for using the term "penalized." I just need to adjust the sheets for guys with minimal experience because of their being 3-year sheets. College guys tend to be closer to their potential than high school guys. The only real "penalty" that affects college guys is age, because if a team starts them really low despite their college experience, they end up pitching at a level they are old for.
If you saw somebody in particular you think this was the case for let me know. I don't know if you're referring to a specific instance or just responding to my term "penalized."

GH

Crapshoot · 01-19-2003, 07:01 PM

My mistake GeForce; I was responding to the word "penalized."
Im curious how you deal with 2 year guys right now, because
if I remember correctly, you said once that you accounted for the three years in something like a 10/30/60 percent breakdown; in the 2 year cases, what replaces the first year statistics ?
This is just curiousity; the ratings are looking good.

Viper · 01-19-2003, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Highlifeman21
hey Geforce, why don't you spend some time updating salary info? it's ridiculous that thome is gonna be a free agent after 1 year with the phils making 100,000..... i think that should be the biggest issue right now instead of dealing with paltry requests for horrible prospects like brandon larson

You know we all care about how much Jim Thome makes (with salaries being easily changeable) more importantly than the ENTIRE minor league system. Good job

Highlifeman21 · 01-19-2003, 08:08 PM

unless i'm mistaken, isn't GForcev3Update your work? i could be horribly mistaken, which i doub that i am, but i downloaded said roster set and low and behold, jim thome was on the phils, along with kevin millwood and they were both free agents after 1 year....

and about mr. larson, my home team's apparent hot corner man to be, let's look at his stats last year.... in 23 games batted .275, struck out 10 times in 51 AB and only walked 6 times in 57 PA.... wow, plate patience if i've ever heard of it.... sure, a .362 OBP, but that was over 51 AB, and with his lack of discipline and penchant for the whiff, he was due to rival reggie taylor for the team's worst onbase guy.... and prospect, i think that's a tough call for someone who is 27.... i mean prospect usually means 25 and under, right? i'd love for someone to tell me how larson can be so great when the reds offered sir brandon, useless aaron boone and the overused scott williamson to the phils for scott rolen who they ended up trading to the cards for essentially placido palanco.... so you tell me how great brandon larson is, please

CBLCardinals · 01-19-2003, 08:23 PM

ahem.

You are mistaken.

Gforce's rosters start with the 2002 rosters "as-is" Opening Day 2002.

Other people updated his set for the Version you have now (Thome in Philly)

Why you call Aaron Boone "useless" is also a joke. Sure, his batting average was low, but he did lead the Reds in HR (26), RBI (87), and SB (32).

You also forgot to mention Larson hit 4 HR in those 51 ABs.

Cyclone792 · 01-19-2003, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GForce22
Wow...you couldn't be dumber.

a) I haven't done a set with Thome on the Phils, so don't know where you get that from
b) If you think Larson is a horrible prospect then you know nothing about the minors
c) your attitude is that of a punk, which I'm guessing is not far from the truth.

Run along, kid. You're wasting people's time.

GH

Hey GForce, Brandon Larson is the same guy who was unprotected in the Rule 5 draft a few years ago and NOBODY was willing to spend the $50,000 to claim him. He'll be 27 years old in May. That doesn't exactly ring "prospect" in my ears. Sure, he may become a serviceable ML player and may even have a decent career, but I wouldn't call him a prospect anymore.

Of course, with the attitude you seem to take when you disagree on an issue with somebody, I expect you knew all that already, right?

I'm wondering if I'm going to get the "punk" label now too and be referred to as being "dumb" because of this post.....

Cyclone792 · 01-19-2003, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CBLCardinals

Why you call Aaron Boone "useless" is also a joke. Sure, his batting average was low, but he did lead the Reds in HR (26), RBI (87), and SB (32).

Aaron Boone had an OPS+ last year of 90. He was well below average as a hitter. I wouldn't exactly call that stellar. I don't care if he hit 26 home runs; he put up a lousy OBP of .314 (read: he made A TON of outs). And we all know RBI is a teammate dependent stat, which essentially renders it as inaccurate when judging a hitters value so there's no use in discussing that aspect.

Highlifeman21 · 01-19-2003, 09:06 PM

recently the reds burned a big pile of money by giving the manager's son 3.7 million.... that money could have been given to dunn, or kearns or once he's ready, one of the reds TRUE prospects, Ty Howington.... but instead that 3.7 mil paid for a .241 average, a .314 OBP and a .439 SLG (that's a .753 OPS for those of you scoring at home).... yeah, he hit 26 HRs, TYING him for the team lead with Adam Dunn, but Dunn's OPS was .854, .1 higher than Boone.... of course the phils didn't want boone, who wasn't close to replacing rolen, i mean who would want a 3rdbaseman who can't put up an OPS over .8? seems kind of silly to waste that 3.7 mil for someone who puts up boone's numbers... let's not forget his 88 RC, sub 5 RC/27 of 4.86, and an RQ of about 1... his ABR was also right around 8, nothing to write home to mom about.... so yeah, leading the reds in SB is no claim to fame, 87 RBI isn't that great when he appeared in ALL 162 games... thankfully he got over his injury plagues of post 1999.... the 2:1 K to BB ratio is enough for me... any responses?

Sabathia · 01-19-2003, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Highlifeman21
recently the reds burned a big pile of money by giving the manager's son 3.7 million.... that money could have been given to dunn, or kearns or once he's ready, one of the reds TRUE prospects, Ty Howington.... but instead that 3.7 mil paid for a .241 average, a .314 OBP and a .439 SLG (that's a .753 OPS for those of you scoring at home).... yeah, he hit 26 HRs, TYING him for the team lead with Adam Dunn, but Dunn's OPS was .854, .1 higher than Boone.... of course the phils didn't want boone, who wasn't close to replacing rolen, i mean who would want a 3rdbaseman who can't put up an OPS over .8? seems kind of silly to waste that 3.7 mil for someone who puts up boone's numbers... let's not forget his 88 RC, sub 5 RC/27 of 4.86, and an RQ of about 1... his ABR was also right around 8, nothing to write home to mom about.... so yeah, leading the reds in SB is no claim to fame, 87 RBI isn't that great when he appeared in ALL 162 games... thankfully he got over his injury plagues of post 1999.... the 2:1 K to BB ratio is enough for me... any responses?

LOL. Are you trying to impress us with all that other statistical crap that no one's ever heard of? No wonder you think Boone sucks if all you're doing is looking at all of those other stats. How many starting 3B had an OPS of over .800 last year? I'm sure you'll find Boone in the top half. Not to mention the fact that probably none of them had as many stolen bases as Boone.

I Am The Game · 01-19-2003, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Highlifeman21
unless i'm mistaken, isn't GForcev3Update your work? i could be horribly mistaken, which i doub that i am, but i downloaded said roster set and low and behold, jim thome was on the phils, along with kevin millwood and they were both free agents after 1 year....

and about mr. larson, my home team's apparent hot corner man to be, let's look at his stats last year.... in 23 games batted .275, struck out 10 times in 51 AB and only walked 6 times in 57 PA.... wow, plate patience if i've ever heard of it.... sure, a .362 OBP, but that was over 51 AB, and with his lack of discipline and penchant for the whiff, he was due to rival reggie taylor for the team's worst onbase guy.... and prospect, i think that's a tough call for someone who is 27.... i mean prospect usually means 25 and under, right? i'd love for someone to tell me how larson can be so great when the reds offered sir brandon, useless aaron boone and the overused scott williamson to the phils for scott rolen who they ended up trading to the cards for essentially placido palanco.... so you tell me how great brandon larson is, please

Hank Blalock struggled a lot worse then Larson did in his major league team last year, so does that mean Blalock is a failure? No, it doesn't. It means he had a little trouble adjusting. Larson ripped up Triple-A, and the Phillies wanted Bud Smith. And about the salaries, YES, YOU ARE HORRIBLY MISTAKEN. That isn't his work. That is someone updating his original roster file.

Moron. And yes, prospect usually means under 25. USUALLY. If someone gets a late start, or something occurs they will still be considered a prospect by some publications. And in those 51AB, he hit 4 HR (8 HR every 100AB gives you 25+ in 550), and he got on base a .362 clip which isn't too shabby, especially for a rookie. And he won't be 27 until the end of May. So at 26, yes he still is considered a prospect.

I Am The Game · 01-19-2003, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sabathia
LOL. Are you trying to impress us with all that other statistical crap that no one's ever heard of? No wonder you think Boone sucks if all you're doing is looking at all of those other stats. How many starting 3B had an OPS of over .800 last year? I'm sure you'll find Boone in the top half. Not to mention the fact that probably none of them had as many stolen bases as Boone.

He's right. Third Base is such a weak position outside of Troy Glaus. Shea Hillenbrand was being saught after like he was the second coming of Ted Williams earlier in the offseason, I think that says enough about the position.

Cyclone792 · 01-19-2003, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sabathia
LOL. Are you trying to impress us with all that other statistical crap that no one's ever heard of? No wonder you think Boone sucks if all you're doing is looking at all of those other stats. How many starting 3B had an OPS of over .800 last year? I'm sure you'll find Boone in the top half. Not to mention the fact that probably none of them had as many stolen bases as Boone.

Some statistical crap that nobody's ever heard of:

OBP = On Base Percentage
SLG = Slugging Percentage
OPS = On Base + Slugging
RC = Runs Created
RC/27 = Runs Created per 27 outs
RQ = RC/27 divided by the league RC/27
ABR = Adjusted Batting Runs

All are forms of statistics that front offices such as those of... oh, I don't know... the Oakland Athletics... run their organizations through. In other words, they are much more accurate and have much more merit than statistics such as RBI.

I Am The Game · 01-19-2003, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cyclone792
Hey GForce, Brandon Larson is the same guy who was unprotected in the Rule 5 draft a few years ago and NOBODY was willing to spend the $50,000 to claim him. He'll be 27 years old in May. That doesn't exactly ring "prospect" in my ears. Sure, he may become a serviceable ML player and may even have a decent career, but I wouldn't call him a prospect anymore.

Of course, with the attitude you seem to take when you disagree on an issue with somebody, I expect you knew all that already, right?

I'm wondering if I'm going to get the "punk" label now too and be referred to as being "dumb" because of this post.....

While nobody may have been willing to spend the money to claim him, you must remember if you are taken in the Rule V draft you have to spend the entire season on the 25-man roster or the disabled list, either way hindering development. That may have been what people were scared off of, since you said it was a few years ago he was what, just entering Double-A or something like that?

Highlifeman21 · 01-19-2003, 09:41 PM

in alphabetical order, there were 9 guys that had an OPS over .800: Edgardo Alfonzo, Eric Chavez, Troy Glaus, Eric Hinske, Corey Koskie, Mike Lowell, Herbert Perry, Scott Rolen and Robin Ventura... they all had min 400 AB....

and while boone did lead the majors for SB by a 3B, i forgot that 3B was a speed position and that your 3B is your big steals guy.... Boone did, however, rank #32 for MLB 3B in OBP, surprisingly 6th in HR, but only 19th in SLG, so clearly when Aaron isn't hitting the ball out of the ballpark, he's making outs.... remember, he did have the 6th most Ks for all 3B, 11th most Hits, while only walking 10th most with a paltry, emphasize PALTRY 56 walks..... anything else?

01-18-2003, 04:33 PM	#141
Sabathia Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2002 Location: Chapel Hill, NC Posts: 60	Oh yeah, forgot that Guthrie hasn't pitched yet. How about Billy Traber? He's had some nice stats, and I wanna see if he's ML ready. Also, Lee looks good. He should become a great strikeout pitcher. __________________ Contract the Yankees! Leagues Cleveland Indians in the HBL Cincinnati Reds in the DBLC Seattle Mariners in the TLB FOB2: Coming Soon! Major League Boneheads: C Mark Szymanski

01-19-2003, 07:21 AM	#142
GForce22 Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 2,654	I'm done with testing the hitter sheets, but here's Brendan Harris. Code: Brendan Harris AB H 2B 3B HR BB SO AVG 550 165 35 4 26 61 84 0.3 550 121 30 5 11 37 97 0.22 Talent G G F G A A And, probably the last test pitcher, Billy Traber. Code: AB H 2B HR BB SO AVG 550 143 22 12 33 128 0.26 550 194 30 16 45 90 0.353 Talent A G G B G Potentials (raw) on top, currents in middle, talent rating on bottom. Traber would likely fare better than this in the majors right now, though I would give him more minor league time. He gets "penalized" for only having pitched 2 years. That is written into the sheets to keep me from rating guys with 1 year pitching experience as current stars. GH Last edited by GForce22; 01-19-2003 at 07:26 AM.

01-19-2003, 02:14 PM	#144
Crapshoot Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: watching: DArwin's missing link in action Posts: 3,112	GeForce, looking through the sheets again, I realize that's there only one potential problem; college pitchers get punished for being older and closer to the majors. They have pitched less in the minors, and usually make the majors a lot faster (and have far less risk) than high school pitchers. You were mentioning that guys who have pitched 2 years as opposed to 3 get penalized; in a sense, a lot of the top college guys make it that soon. Im curious as to what your reading is on this. __________________ Senior Senor Member of the OOTP Boards Pittsburgh Playmates- OTBL

01-19-2003, 07:01 PM	#148
Crapshoot Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: watching: DArwin's missing link in action Posts: 3,112	My mistake GeForce; I was responding to the word "penalized." Im curious how you deal with 2 year guys right now, because if I remember correctly, you said once that you accounted for the three years in something like a 10/30/60 percent breakdown; in the 2 year cases, what replaces the first year statistics ? This is just curiousity; the ratings are looking good. __________________ Senior Senor Member of the OOTP Boards Pittsburgh Playmates- OTBL

01-19-2003, 08:23 PM	#151
CBLCardinals OOTP Roster Team Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 2,073	useless "poster" ahem. You are mistaken. Gforce's rosters start with the 2002 rosters "as-is" Opening Day 2002. Other people updated his set for the Version you have now (Thome in Philly) Why you call Aaron Boone "useless" is also a joke. Sure, his batting average was low, but he did lead the Reds in HR (26), RBI (87), and SB (32). You also forgot to mention Larson hit 4 HR in those 51 ABs.

01-19-2003, 01:30 PM	#143
gpm22 All Star Reserve Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 513	I think your pitcher's averages and K's are ok, but I think that the other stats need to be lowered.

01-19-2003, 04:46 PM	#145
Highlifeman21 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 28	hey Geforce, why don't you spend some time updating salary info? it's ridiculous that thome is gonna be a free agent after 1 year with the phils making 100,000..... i think that should be the biggest issue right now instead of dealing with paltry requests for horrible prospects like brandon larson

01-19-2003, 08:08 PM	#150
Highlifeman21 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 28	unless i'm mistaken, isn't GForcev3Update your work? i could be horribly mistaken, which i doub that i am, but i downloaded said roster set and low and behold, jim thome was on the phils, along with kevin millwood and they were both free agents after 1 year.... and about mr. larson, my home team's apparent hot corner man to be, let's look at his stats last year.... in 23 games batted .275, struck out 10 times in 51 AB and only walked 6 times in 57 PA.... wow, plate patience if i've ever heard of it.... sure, a .362 OBP, but that was over 51 AB, and with his lack of discipline and penchant for the whiff, he was due to rival reggie taylor for the team's worst onbase guy.... and prospect, i think that's a tough call for someone who is 27.... i mean prospect usually means 25 and under, right? i'd love for someone to tell me how larson can be so great when the reds offered sir brandon, useless aaron boone and the overused scott williamson to the phils for scott rolen who they ended up trading to the cards for essentially placido palanco.... so you tell me how great brandon larson is, please

01-19-2003, 09:06 PM	#154
Highlifeman21 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 28	recently the reds burned a big pile of money by giving the manager's son 3.7 million.... that money could have been given to dunn, or kearns or once he's ready, one of the reds TRUE prospects, Ty Howington.... but instead that 3.7 mil paid for a .241 average, a .314 OBP and a .439 SLG (that's a .753 OPS for those of you scoring at home).... yeah, he hit 26 HRs, TYING him for the team lead with Adam Dunn, but Dunn's OPS was .854, .1 higher than Boone.... of course the phils didn't want boone, who wasn't close to replacing rolen, i mean who would want a 3rdbaseman who can't put up an OPS over .8? seems kind of silly to waste that 3.7 mil for someone who puts up boone's numbers... let's not forget his 88 RC, sub 5 RC/27 of 4.86, and an RQ of about 1... his ABR was also right around 8, nothing to write home to mom about.... so yeah, leading the reds in SB is no claim to fame, 87 RBI isn't that great when he appeared in ALL 162 games... thankfully he got over his injury plagues of post 1999.... the 2:1 K to BB ratio is enough for me... any responses?

01-19-2003, 09:41 PM	#160
Highlifeman21 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 28	in alphabetical order, there were 9 guys that had an OPS over .800: Edgardo Alfonzo, Eric Chavez, Troy Glaus, Eric Hinske, Corey Koskie, Mike Lowell, Herbert Perry, Scott Rolen and Robin Ventura... they all had min 400 AB.... and while boone did lead the majors for SB by a 3B, i forgot that 3B was a speed position and that your 3B is your big steals guy.... Boone did, however, rank #32 for MLB 3B in OBP, surprisingly 6th in HR, but only 19th in SLG, so clearly when Aaron isn't hitting the ball out of the ballpark, he's making outs.... remember, he did have the 6th most Ks for all 3B, 11th most Hits, while only walking 10th most with a paltry, emphasize PALTRY 56 walks..... anything else?