OOTP and the competition

[BaseballMan]

Well seeing how Markus has came out with a new version practically every year
since ootp1 and has been pretty good at patches as well, i cant see him having the time to do this with another full time job. Maybe he has a part time job but i tend to beleive that ootp is his full time job. Anyway if he couldnt put the time and effort into the game it would have gotten worse.

Now maybe some people see it that way i for one dont. If Markus didnt have time enough for the game or if it was not rewarding enough for him then im pretty sure he would have sold it long ago. All i know is that he has released a new version pretty much every year and the game doesnt cost me $60.00
so im gonna accept the fact that he must be doing ok.

[CMH]

I would think Markus would have mentioned it by now that he has another job.

Markus doesn't give a lot of excuses but he'll at times say, "I didn't get to code as much as I wanted today. Family reasons." Something of that sort. Not once has he said, "Sorry, guys, I had a really long week at work and I didn't get to the patch yet."

Then you take a guy like Shaun Sullivan and he routinely mentioned that he had another job to support him. Not trying to say he had excuses, but he did have another job and a family that he needed to be with for most of the day. At least this was the case with the earlier versions of Pro Sim. I believe he quit his job with the last version.

[Curtis]

And let's not forget that OotPB isn't this company's only product. Andreas recently posted that Inside the Park netted them a couple of hundred dollars a month (which isn't bad for a dead and forgotten game), and Andreas' own boxing game must bring in some money. There might be other legacy titles out there that I've forgotten that cover the electric bill.

I see that there are over 5000 posters in the forum list. Granted that not all of them purchase every year, but on the other hand, how many purchasers never bothered to register here? I'm a pretty active guy on the Internet, but even I haven't signed up in over half of the forums for games I own.

I think satchel was right about his numbers being conservative.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Dr. P.R. Park III

There is no question that it took a considerable amount of work to get the customizable play-offs on the road. I was simply trying to point out the insane amount of work required to get a feature included in the game.

I would say it depends on the complexity of the feature. Some things are much easier and simpler to add than others.

You also have factor in Markus' own tastes and interests. One of the reasons sound was added back in was because Markus found it enhanced his enjoyment of the game. As the creator and programmer of OOTP, it is his prerogative to add in things he likes and finds fun.

Originally Posted by Dr. P.R. Park III

...but I'm thinking the game either needs a major face lift (rebuilt/revamped engine/code whatever you people call it) and/or an entirely new design team and perspective.

Well, RonCo is essentially arguing for that in regards to player development and modelling. I'd argue it might be necessary for the financial system and league interaction modelling (it depends on how much the current structure is adaptable). I, for one, would definitely like to see a reworking of the GUI to make it as aesthetically pleasing as possible (the current interface is all right, but certainly could be better in the aesthetics department).

All that said, OOTP underwent a considerable overhaul in structure in OOTP 2006, and OOTP 10 will only be the fourth version put out under that structure. So it's an open question whether now is really the right time for another big change in structure as occurred between OOTP 6/6.5 and OOTP 2006...

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

I would say it depends on the complexity of the feature. Some things are much easier and simpler to add than others.

You also have factor in Markus' own tastes and interests. One of the reasons sound was added back in was because Markus found it enhanced his enjoyment of the game. As the creator and programmer of OOTP, it is his prerogative to add in things he likes and finds fun.

Well, RonCo is essentially arguing for that in regards to player development and modelling. I'd argue it might be necessary for the financial system and league interaction modelling (it depends on how much the current structure is adaptable). I, for one, would definitely like to see a reworking of the GUI to make it as aesthetically pleasing as possible (the current interface is all right, but certainly could be better in the aesthetics department).

All that said, OOTP underwent a considerable overhaul in structure in OOTP 2006, and OOTP 10 will only be the fourth version put out under that structure. So it's an open question whether now is really the right time for another big change in structure as occurred between OOTP 6/6.5 and OOTP 2006...

OOTP 10 will be the 6th version under that structure - 2006, 2007, 8, 8.5, 9, 10.

[pstrickert]

Originally Posted by PadresFan

So because of this, I haven't had the desire to play any PC sims for a good 6 months now. Instead, I've gone back to the basics, and have gotten back into the card and dice scene. Unlike the PC arena, the tabletop sports gaming market is seeing quite a resurgence, and we are even talking about the perceived increase in forum activity on the Delphi TableTop Sports forums. Maybe it's the economy, or maybe it's just a cyclical thing, but there is no denying that a number of people like me are putting down their mice for the dice.

I'm not saying this applies to the majority of Sim Heads out there that play Career Sims, because there really are few tabletop replacements for what OOTP provides. I'm just saying that for me, it feels very refreshing and satisfying to go back to the basics of why I got interested in this genre in the first place.

What tabletop baseball games do you play? Do you have a favorite? What do the tabletop games offer that the PC versions do not? (PM me, if you don't mind!)

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by BruceM

OOTP 10 will be the 6th version under that structure - 2006, 2007, 8, 8.5, 9, 10.

OOTP 2007 and OOTP 8 are, for all intents and purposes, the same product. The departure from SI is what generated OOTP 8. If that departure had not happened, there would have been no OOTP 8.

[OldFatGuy]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

OOTP 2007 and OOTP 8 are, for all intents and purposes, the same product. The departure from SI is what generated OOTP 8. If that departure had not happened, there would have been no OOTP 8.

But what is this 8.5?

I ask because I'm gonna keep my old Yankees univers on OOTP8 and start my new big one in OOTP 9 and if there is an upgrade or patch I'm missing I'd like to consider it, if it's free that is.

[stevebydac]

From Baseball Mogul's own website, quoted Sept. 19, 2007:

Sports Mogul Inc. announced today that their award-winning product, Baseball Mogul 2008, has topped 115,000 units in sales in just six months, breaking their sales record for the entire year of 2006.

Their game is currently $19.99-$22.99. So let's say in 2006 they sold 110,000 and 2007's final tally was 25% higher -- 132,000. At an average price of $21.49, that's $2,836,680 gross. Hard to believe those numbers. It sells 26 times as many copies as OOTP, which is regarded by most as a superior product???

Whatever the case, I think OOTP sells quite a bit more than the guess of 5000 copies per year. Which is great for Marcus and the team.

[dj_morton]

Can't wait for Front Office Manager to come out, about time we had a console game!

[satchel]

If Baseball Mogul sold 115,000 copies, then OOTP Baseball has sold at least 8,000 copies in each of the last couple of years. So it's safe to say that OOTP Developments is bringing Markus enough money so that he doesn't have to work another job, if he doesn't want to.

As far as Mr Sullivan needing to work another job to support his family, if he was a wife and one or more children, his need for insurance is going to necessitate his working for a company through which he can get coverage. If Markus is single, and childless, his health-care costs are going to be much lower.

For a self-employed American with a wife and a child, $100,000 doesn't go nearly as far as it does for a single, childless German man.

[satchel]

Originally Posted by dj_morton

Can't wait for Front Office Manager to come out, about time we had a console game!

See this post. Please.

[dj_morton]

Originally Posted by satchel

See this post. Please.

Says I don't have permission to view that page...

[satchel]

Originally Posted by dj_morton

Says I don't have permission to view that page...

I'll summarize it: while I wholeheartedly support being enthusiastic about a cool new game, I think that MLB Front Office Manager is most safely approached with extremely low expectations.

[dj_morton]

Originally Posted by satchel

I'll summarize it: while I wholeheartedly support being enthusiastic about a cool new game, I think that MLB Front Office Manager is most safely approached with extremely low expectations.

If it's anything close to Head Coach 09, I'll love it. I don't expect it to compete with OOTP at all, not in the first version. But who knows, maybe in the years to come. I REALLY wish OOTP would put out a console version. How great would that be?

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

OOTP 2007 and OOTP 8 are, for all intents and purposes, the same product. The departure from SI is what generated OOTP 8. If that departure had not happened, there would have been no OOTP 8.

If you want to nit pick, so are 6 & 6.5. But they're not exactly the same, they're different, just like 2007 & 8. The fact is, OOTP will be the 6th version of OOTP since the 2006 format.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by BruceM

If you want to nit pick, so are 6 & 6.5. But they're not exactly the same, they're different, just like 2007 & 8. The fact is, OOTP will be the 6th version of OOTP since the 2006 format.

Oh, let's nitpick!

Oh, okay, I'll amend my comment: the fourth major annual release version.

2006 = OOTP 2006;
2007 = OOTP 2007 / OOTP 8;
2008 = OOTP 9
2009 = OOTP 10 (barring some sort of nomenclature change like OOTP X)

[Boom Boom]

Originally Posted by stevebydac

From Baseball Mogul's own website, quoted Sept. 19, 2007:

Their game is currently $19.99-$22.99. So let's say in 2006 they sold 110,000 and 2007's final tally was 25% higher -- 132,000. At an average price of $21.49, that's $2,836,680 gross. Hard to believe those numbers. It sells 26 times as many copies as OOTP, which is regarded by most as a superior product???

Whatever the case, I think OOTP sells quite a bit more than the guess of 5000 copies per year. Which is great for Marcus and the team.

Those are true numbers, but one thing, Sports Mogul doesn't publish there own games, they may take home $2.50 per game they sell. That is the way it goes in the publishng business. And OOTP doesn't take home much either with Verisign, I believe they want $15-20 dollars per download.

Clay would rather have Baseball Mogul in more hands than worry about pirating. BM is in many stores, Gamestop, Walmart, target, best buy..ect.

[Boom Boom]

Also about verisign, I am making a consertative estimate about it being $15-20 dollars per download, I am sure it is around this number, but with OOTP $40, this does seem realistic, BM is now $29 retail.

[pstrickert]

I think, IIRC, that Verisign takes $7 per unit.