Time Warp Baseball

[Kaline]

Since he shares my name (spooky), I took an interest in Kyle "Knuckleball" Stevens (the even scarier part is he has a former tiger as his name (Greenberg)....)

Talk about a disapointment so far. 1st overall pick . Hes 4-15 with a 7+ ERA as a pro. Had a decent year in AA this year. He's been waived, traded and send down constantly....

Hes 22, in '42 he'll get drafted most likely (he'll be 25), so unless he has breakout years in '40 (unlikely) and '41 (possible), he may be 29 with less than 20 career wins.

Thats borderline sad. The scary part is, he has deent ratings too. He just doesn't play well. I mean, he could go win 13 games the next two years before going off too war (but he was in AA, Im not sure he'll even be in the rotation at years start).

Rick Ankhiel anyone?

[haggis007]

>>Cubs leftfielder Dewey Mickelsen was named World Series MVP. He >>hit .350 with 1 homerun, 5 RBI, 4 runs scored, 4 walks, a .458 OBP and >>a .958 OPS.[/QUOTE]


Way to go Dewey!

[scprideandms]

Bourbon has an "outside" shot at 400 wins. He needs 35 more but he turns 38 May 19th.

Jr looked to be turning around in Pitt but that trade deadline trade that sent him to Philly he fell apart goiing 3-9 ERA over 7. What's amazing is that being a yr younger than Bourbon he might have a shot at having 300 wins along with 300 losses. He needs 50 wins.

Tequila has turned into just an average player.

[jdw]

Matt wrote:

> 1938 Postseason

> NL BOY: Oscar "The Kid" Vancini, BKN, .313, 53 HR, 130 RBI

This is Oscar's 5th BOY (NL BOY in 1930, 1934, 1936-38) which ties the record set by Maurice Woodson (NL 1907, 1909, 1912-14). Pops Falise (NL 1925-28) and Tyrell Chestnut (AL 1927, 1929-30, 1933) are the only other players to win at least four BOY.

As seen, it's Oscar's third in a row. He'll be gunning to tie Pops Falise's record for four straight next season:

4 - Pop Falise (NL 1925-28)
3 - Maurice Woodson (NL 1912-14)
3 - Rabbi Baum (AL 1923-26)
3 - Oscar Vancini (NL 1936-38)


> NL POY: Frank Smith, BKN, 25-9, 2.50 ERA, 52 BB, 178 K

Also the 5th POY for Frank Smith at the young age of 28. That moves him ahead of Hall of Famer Raymond Gindler and Scott Fenner on the all-time POY list, tying him with Tim Lopresto, Ahrend Nagel and Jethro Lee:

9 - Andrew Murphy (AL 1912-17, 1919-21)
5 - Tim Lopresto (NL 1914-15, 1917, 1920, 1922)
5 - Ahrend Nagel (AL 1924-26, 1928-29)
5 - Jethro Lee (AL 1931-33, 1936-37)
5 - Frank Smith (NL 1930, 1933, 1935, 1937-38)
4 - Ray Gindler (AL 1901, 1905-06, 1908)
4 - Scott Fenner (NL 1927, 1929, 1931-32)

Somewhat amazing that as well as Smith has pitched over the years, this is the first time he's won consecutive POY awards.

Oscar and Smith have now won the awards in the same year in 1930, 1937 and 1938. Only Rabbi Baum and Ahrend Nagel have doubled on three occasions before:

AL:
1901 MIL - Bob Ancona & Raymond Gindler
1904 WSH - Montey Lawley & Dave McBean
1907 CLE - Whiskey Allen & Patrick De Leon
1915 CHA - Jed Burke & Andrew Murphy
1916 CHA - Jed Burke & Andrew Murphy
1922 DET - Charles Hagaman & Abe Swift
1924 PHA - Ben Baum & Ahrend Nagel
1925 PHA - Ben Baum & Ahrend Nagel
1926 PHA - Ben Baum & Ahrend Nagel
1935 NYA - Ervin Skjerly & Luke Riley
1936 WSH - Carl Kahle & Jethro Lee
1937 WSH - Carl Kahle & Jethro Lee
1938 NYA - Jimmy Ditty & Art Booth

NL:
1903 PHI - Lavon Arave & Mark Krosser
1914 STL - Maurice Woodson & Tim Lopresto
1921 NYG - Jared Jarry & Johnny Franklin
1924 BKN - Jesse Passwater & Johnny Swinson
1927 PHI - John Falise & Scott Fenner
1930 BKN - Oscar Vancini & Frank Smith
1932 PHI - Willard Schwarz & Scott Fenner
1935 BKN - Jonathan Wright & Frank Smith
1937 BKN - Oscar Vancini & Frank Smith
1938 BKN - Oscar Vancini & Frank Smith

As Smith also doubled up in 1935 with Jon Wright, his total of four would be a record. Smith and Oscar look to tie Baum & Nagel's streak of three straight next year.


> Milestones

> 1713/1694 RBI - "Bull" Zegri, PHA - His 1694th RBI put him in
> 1st place all-time, surpassing John Falise.

This was the strangest thing as Bull had a simply horrible season - .238/.337/.364/.701. Even in his big RBI month of August where he drove in 19 to break the record, he was mediocre - .258/.349/.398/.747. One thing to give Bull credit for, as even with his skills declining, he "focused" in RBI situations and picked up his game with runners in scoring position:

RISP: .241/.378/.417/.794 with 52 RBI and 5 HR in about 135 PA
Other: .237/.319/.344/.664 with 12 RBI and 7 HR in about 313 PA

He also hit .294/.381/.706/1.087 with 8 RBI, 2 HR and 1 2B in 21 PA.

While the RISP numbers aren't "great", they do show him working deep into the counts looking for pitches he could handle to get the runs in.

Kudos to Bull.


> 365/360 Wins - Bourbon Allen, BSN - He became #1 all-time in career
> wins with #360, surpassing Tim Lopresto.

And Bourbon showed almost no signs of slowing down. Another 20 win season (21). His best ERA since 1935. Tied his best WHIP since 1932. A career high in K. The best walk numbers of his career (BB/9). His ERA was 5th in the NL, his best placing since a runner-up in 1935.

I don't know if Bourbon is "well preserved" enough to get to 400. Some pitchers have hit the wall hard right around here. But usually you get at least one "poor year" before falling off the cliff, which then can take a year or two. The quality of team that Brooklyn is, he may get a 15 win season in 1939 even if he falls off to league average.

Amazing career.

> 2000 K's - Jethro "Dodge" Lee, WSH - He became the 1st pitcher
> to surpass this mark in about 20 years.

Jethro was still pitching well this season, and set a career high in K's. At 35, if he has close to the staying power that Bourbon has, he's a good shot to top Will Haggan's mark of 2612. He's at 2145 right now.

Bourbon has a shot at 2000 next year - he's at 1952. Schukraft at 1824 looks like he's more than a season away.


> 131 Saves - Dale Cisek, SLA - He passed Paul Maisonet for 1st all-time.

He has a really poor season. That said, he had a terrific 6 inning save on 8/23/38 to tie the record, and then came back on 9/3/38 with an inning of no hit, two K ball to break the record in a 9-7 game in Cleveland.

One thing that will be SUPER interesting will be how the new owners handle their bullpens. I suspect that they'll have a some impact on roster management and player usage.


> Gold Gloves
> Second Base: Hendrick Asher, CHA
> Shortstop: Jamie Kubic, CHA - 2 straight!

Kubic has won the Gold Glove in 1931, 1934-35, and 1937-38. I haven't done a GG spreadsheet yet, but it looks like the record for SS GG's is 6 by Travis Hunt (1905-09, 1911), with Jeb Shaver and Kubic the only others with 5. Of course people have won many more at other positions. I know Kevin Stines and Woody Woodson both went double digits at 2B, while Cohan and Finley won 9 at catcher, and Ray Brown took 10 in the OF.

One thing I did notice when pulling the White Sox Gold Glove winners is that they have had quite a few *without* having one of those anchors like Brown, Stines, Woody, Cohan or Finley to pull down close to double digits on their own. What they have had a lot of is guys like Asher who come out of nowhere to grab one or two, then fade out. And they've had a few like Kubic. Current starter Babe Hardin has grabbed 5. Ryley Gerbeck was one of the great defensive outfielders in early TWB history, winning six. And Giuseppe Nonnewitz bagged four at 3B for the Sox in addition to the earlier one he took for the Phillies.

Enough rambling... back to work.


John

[rogmax11]

Real high quality "rambling", John, and a nice complement to this superlative thread.

[jdw]

scprideandms wrote:

> Bourbon has an "outside" shot at 400 wins. He needs 35 more but he
> turns 38 May 19th.

The big thing is how he does this year. Lopresto went from (i) being still a great pitcher in 1926 (2nd in ERA with a 18-10 record), to (ii) his "declining to league average" year in 1927 that still got him a 16-15 record, to (iii) his death season in 1928 that only got him a 4-12 record and a trip to retirement. Tan followed his last good year with two sorta league average ones and went 18-16 and 10-11 before retiring. It's not a hard and study rule, but long careers seem to fade out along those lines.

If Bourbon can somehow pull another Top 10 ERA out of his hat next year, I would have a very good shot to make it to 400. A Top 10 should net him at least 18 wins unless the Bees collapse. If he fades to league average the following year, he still should get 10-15 wins depending upon how good the Bees are and how healthy he his. A conservative 18+10 wins over the next two years would leave him at 393, with 7 wins *possible* in his "tanking season" if it came next.


> Jr looked to be turning around in Pitt but that trade deadline trade
> that sent him to Philly he fell apart goiing 3-9 ERA over 7. What's
> amazing is that being a yr younger than Bourbon he might have a
> shot at having 300 wins along with 300 losses. He needs 50 wins.

Let's all prayer that he *doesn't*.

No, I'm not totally joking...

You would think that in Real Life that he wouldn't have gotten 645 career starts given how poorly he's pitched so often over his career. I mean, getting rolled out 39 times in 1925 to get pounded to the tune of a 6.63 ERA just isn't super credible given his mostly poor-to-mediocre pitching prior to that. After looking like he turned the corner in 1928, he went back to horrible-to-mediocre play in 1929-30 and still ate 70 Bees starts... and would have been given more if strained the elbow ligament and missed 5+ weeks in 1929. He was poor in 1935, then simply horrid in 1936... and it's hard at that point to see why anyone gave him another start. He wasn't good at all this year.

Whiskey getting to 300 wins would pretty much make the 300 level meaningless *on its own*. If a pitchers as mediocre to bad to most of his career can get to it, then it's nothing for a "good" pitcher to get to. We should be honest and admit that he's made the 250 win level meaninless.


> Tequila has turned into just an average player.

He's young yet. He looked like he was going to be a good one with that 1934 season (.326/.382/.469/.851 at 20 years old). But he's lost his starting job since then Eric Teeuw, and this year was a disaster even after they unloaded Teeuw and gave Teq the job back. I'd lay money he bounces back in the next year or two.


John

[fhomess]

As future owner of the Cleveland Indians, here's a teaser of what I'm working on for the team's history page: a short write up of every season they've played. It's taking a long time (I'm up to about 1920), as the main thing I'm going off of are Matt's posts in this thread. Comments are welcome! One thing I will say, is that it was slightly unclear to me what years the team changed nicknames.

The First Decade:
1901
The Cleveland franchise commences as the Cleveland Blues, and are proud to be one of the original teams in baseball. One of the first things they do is sign catcher Whiskey Allen straight out of highschool. Allen is expected to become one of the league's first great players. He's immediately placed in the starting lineup, batting first versus righties, and third versus lefties. The Blues got off to a slow start in April, but heated up in May. Unfortunately, Allen is the only player of note on the Blues roster, and the team finishes in last place. Allen finishes 2nd in the league in batting.

1902
The Blues look to build off of their poor performance in 1901. Whiskey Allen fans are irate after he fails to win the Rookie of the Year, and Allen vows to show those voters a thing or two, as he's moved full time to the third spot in the order. The Blues never got off the ground in spite of Allen's league leading hitting, as they once again finished dead last. In spite of setting an AL record with a .371 average, Whiskey is denied any awards at season's end. Whiskey is furious and announces his refusal to talk to the press ever again.

1903
Fueled by high hopes from a strong farm system, the Blues change their name to the Broncos. The season starts off well, and the story, instead of being Whiskey Allen, is first baseman Maxwell Casper who wins the April Batter of the Month. Allen hit well that month, too, and rumors swirl that the press is angry at Allen's shenanigans. The season is up-and-down. A decent April was followed by a horrid May in which the team dropped back to the cellar. Allen's performance suffered during the Beer Brewers Union strike. The team reasserts itself in June, but again falters in July. Allen manages only 3 RBI in that month and complains bitterly about the lack of a supporting cast. In August, the Broncos surge again on the performance of starter Ken Pautler's 6-1 record, which earned him Cleveland's first Pitcher of the Month award. The team manages to stand pat in September, resulting in a 5th place finish. Allen comes up just short in the Batter of the Year voting.

1904
With some of the younger players starting to make their big league debut, and coming off a season of marked improvement, Cleveland fans are hopeful as ever that the Broncos will once again take a step forward. The team doesn't disappoint in April, and finish the month in 2nd place just a half game back. In May the Broncoes move into first place, with Batter of the Month Maxwell Casper once again leading the way. Second baseman Jeff Young and left fielder Tee Carver start to show signs of future greatness. The Broncos battle the St. Louis Browns for first place all through June, July, and August, but at the end of August they lose starting second baseman Willie Verdos to a shoulder injury for the rest of the season. September proved to be too much for the young team, and after a mid month 5 game losing streak, the team went on to lose 9 of their last 12, dropping them all the way to 3rd place. In a bigger blow than losing Verdos, Whiskey Allen went down with broken hip, and the rest of the team couldn't recover. An exciting season with much hope that ended in much grief. The new 154 game season helps Jarret Treppel set the new AL mark for runs scored in a season, with 98.

1905
The Broncos return with high hopes. After a tough season, the team expects to contend for the AL pennant once again. It remains to be seen how Allen will respond to his hip injury, and he isn't ready for the opener. He makes his debut on April 22nd, but the Broncos are in last place at the end of the month. Allen shows that he can still run, but the Broncos can't seem to accomplish anything. The team manages to move out of last place in July, but in August fell right back in. While the team has some promising rookies on the way, Allen breaks his vow of silence and tells reporters he wants out of Cleveland. He then redeclares his intent to stay silent after being criticized in the papers. Nonetheless, the request falls on mute ears, and the Broncos finish in last place for the 3rd time in 5 years. Allen wins Batter of the Month in the AL for September in a fruitless effort.

1906
Cleveland fans are unsure what to make of a team that finished in 3rd two years ago, and last the previous year. April builds excitement, though, as right fielder Tee Carver wins AL Batter of the Month, helping the team to 2nd place in the standings. Near the end of the month, the Broncos work out a deal with the New York Highlanders for 1905 Rookie of the Year Chief Netsky, who immediately becomes the team's #2 starter. Pitcher Kieran Noah was also acquired with Netsky for second baseman Jeff Young. The Broncos struggle through May as Netsky adjusts to his new team, but still manage to move up to first. In June, disaster strikes as Allen goes down for two months with a torn achilles tendon. With him out of the lineup, the Broncos fall to 6th. The team rebounds to just 2.5 games back in July, but Netsky goes down with back problems and is forced to retire. Whiskey's return in August isn't enough, and the Broncos end the year in 4th place. Whiskey breaks his silence during the offseason just long enough to once again declare his desire to leave Cleveland.

1907
Hopeful that they can weather the loss of Chief Netsky, the Broncos are cautiously optimistic heading into 1907. The team opens strong and sit in 2nd at the end of the month. Whiskey wins April Batter of the Month. In May, the team charted a course for 14 straight wins, putting them squarely on top in the AL. Allen is on a tear at bat and on the bases, stealing 16 bags during the month. 2B Willie Verdos wins AL Batter of the Month in June, and Cleveland extends their league lead to 6 games over the Highlanders. Allen, who has no love for his city or even his teammates, decries that he was snubbed for Batter of the Month. July sees the Broncos continue their strong play to maintain their 6 game lead on New York. Allen's whining helps, as he wins his second Batter of the Month for the season: voters can't ignore his .425 average in July. In August it was 1B Patrick Seifried's turn to win Batter of the Month for the Broncos. The Broncos finished strong and became the first team to win 100 games in a season, en route to their first AL Pennant. #1 starter Patrick DeLeon tied the major league record with 29 wins, but was lost to an elbow injury in the middle of September. Despite being heavy favorites to win the World Series, Cleveland is swept in four games by the New York Giants. Poor pitching, sloppy defense, and an inability to get timely hits doomed the Broncos each game of the series. A bitter ending to an amazing season. "Frenchie" Frounier set new AL records with 108 runs scored and 66 steals. Allen was 2nd in both of those categories, and also led all hitters in average. He finally wins the Batter of the Year he's been craving, and despite his injury, DeLeon wins Pitcher of the Year. Allen also set a new AL record with 200 hits in a season.

1908
Fresh off their first AL Pennant, the Broncos are poised to win it all in 1908. The Highlanders are expected to contend as well, as those teams had the best two records in baseball the previous year. Whiskey vows he'll win it all. The Broncos play well in April, and finish the month one game up on the St. Louis Browns. The team struggles in May, and it becomes a 4 team race. Allen is unable to live up to his lofty play of the year before. In June, the Highlanders and Broncos start to pull away a little. New York is led by an All-World pitching staff, while Cleveland leads the league in almost every offensive category. 2B Willie Verdos and SS Clyde Kreisle are 1-2 in batting at the start of July. Whiskey is under .300 for the first time in his career. 1B Patrick Seifried wins the July Batter of the Month, but the Broncos lose ground on New York as the team's pitching struggles to match the offense. Whiskey finally has a good month at the plate. Despite RF Tee Carver winning the August Batter of the Month, another bad month for Whiskey and the pitching staff leaves the Broncos 10 games back with just a few weeks to play. The Highlanders are clearly the better team, and finish the season with a new record 102 wins. The Broncos finish in 2nd place, 11 games back. Whiskey finished with just a .316 average, the lowest of his career. 1B Patrick Seifried wins the AL Batter of the Year, making it two years in a row for Cleveland players. He finished with a .349 avg, 5 HR, 83 RBI, and 103 R. "Frenchie" Fourner breaks his own mark by scoring 117 runs.

1909
The start of the 1909 season has most pundits predicting the Highlanders to win it all again. The Broncos are expected to contend, but don't have the pitching staff to match their offensive output. The team struggles out of the gate, and after two months are just 26-25. Whiskey started slow but begins to heat up as the season progresses, leading the team into 2nd place by the end of June. Whiskey pours it on in July, winning AL Batter of the Month courtesy of his whopping .473 average. He declares he expects to hit .400 this season. The Broncos can't capitalize on their outspoken star's performance, and struggle in the final two months, ending up in a disappointing 3rd place. Allen's vow to win it all goes for naught, and he only manages a .381 average, but the voters are impressed nonetheless, and he once again wins Batter of the Year. Then promptly calls for a trade once again! In a fitting display of the Broncos poor pitching, starter Ervin Smith sets a new AL record with 155 walks.

1910
Cleveland fans are accustomed to having one of the better teams in the league, but with the pitching they've gotten, they can't be sure they'll have enough to win it all. The offense is expected to lead the team again. Whiskey Allen is, as usual, unable to keep his mouth shut. At the start of the year he declares his goals to be: Hit .400; Pass Woodson for career AVG; Pass Voisin for career steals; and to "Get out of Cleveland!". As the season gets underway, the Broncos come racing out of the gate. 3B "Frenchie" Fournier and SP Patrick DeLeon win AL Batter and Pitcher of the Month in April, as the team gets up 2.5 games on the rest of the league. In May, Fournier goes down with a torn thigh muscle which will sideline him till July. Whiskey comes through, though, and wins Batter of the Month as the Broncos increase their lead to 4 games. New York narrowed the gap to 2.5 games by the end of June, but 1B Patrick Seifried wins Cleveland's 3rd straight Batter of the Month. Seifried then goes out and does it again in July, as the Highlanders start to fade, and are now 8.5 games back. Philadelphia sits in 3rd place, 22.5 games out. St. Louis' Pat Folyard finally breaks the Cleveland stranglehold on AL Batter of the Month, although Whiskey made a strong case as well. The big news in the AL is that Allen heads into September with a .406 average, and a real shot at becoming the first player to hit over .400. The Broncos finish on a tear, winning 107 games on the year (a new record). Allen hits just .365 in September, but that's enough to keep his average at an even .400 on the year. Facing off against the underdog Boston Doves, the Broncos play like it will be easy. The Doves beat Cleveland in 5 games. In their one win, Cleveland scores 8 runs, in their 4 losses, they score just 7 runs combined. Allen manages to hit just .263 with 1 RBI and 2 R. The press, which has always enjoyed pouncing on Whiskey at every opportunity, calls him a selfish choker. AL Batter of the Year goes to 1B Patrick Seifried, in what is considered a direct slight to Allen in spite of Seifried's record 103 RBI. Allen sets a new mark with 213 hits.

[Vris]

That's great. As future owner of the Bees, I have done nothing with history yet! I do have a spreadsheet with important accomplishments, team records, etc, but nothing compared to those excellent write ups!

[scprideandms]

Nice to see Whiskey getting ripped again!!!

[fhomess]

Whiskey brought it on himself! Have you looked at what he used to say to the press? One of the odd things that I noticed was that Flaky Arsenault seemed to have it out for Whiskey from the get go. I don't know why Flaky was so intent on bashing Whiskey, but every chance he got, he seemed to make some snide comment about how Whiskey was getting washed up and he (Flaky) was better than Whiskey.

[jdw]

scprideandms wrote:

> Nice to see Whiskey getting ripped again!!!

Now come on, scprideandms. You had the chance to own the Indians and "Write Whiskey History The Right Way".

Hmm... I'm looking forward to Whiskey's bio ala Cobb...

"I laugh at people who call Willard Schwarz a great catcher. If you told me I could hit .260 for my career and focus on home runs, I would have hit 600 of 'em. Let's see Schwarz hit .343 in his career, playing with a deadball to boot!"

"What the fans don't know about Harry Cohan is that none of his teammates liked him. They always thought he was a glory hound kissing the ass of the press. Oh sure, the fans always loved him because of all those glowing stories the press wrote. But his teammates hated him. Bowie Castellon, God rest his soul, always told me that he blamed the decline of his great career on the moment that Cohan got traded to Chicago. Three Pitcher of the Year Awards, the last one the year before Cohan got trade over. He always said Harry couldn't call a game if his life depended on it. He didn't know how to frame a pitched, and spent most of the game talking friendly to batters being too stupid to know that he was tipping off pitches. That is Harry Cohan for you."

"Let me tell you another story about the man that Harry Cohan really was. Tyke Walls, who in my opinion is the greatest Chicago Nationals player of them all, was a spry young kid in his third season. He was coming off a great season in his sophmore campaign, but in 1923 he was even better. He was so hot he had a chance to break Woody Woodson's single season batting record of .444. Now you'd think that all his teammates would rally around him in the chase. But not Haary Cohan. All Cohan cared about was that Tyke might break Cohan's team record in batting. So he started telling the opposing pitchers ways to get out Tyke. In return, those pitchers 'went soft' on Harry, especially on situtations that weren't in the pinch. So you have washed up 34 year old Harry Cohan out of nowhere hitting .428 at the end of June chasing Tyke's .440.

This only managed to piss Tyke off. Tyke was a gentleman, but he had a hot temper when he knew he was being wronged. The first thing he did was go out and have one of the greatest months in the history of baseball, peppering the ball to the tune of .528 in July. The next thing he did was punch Cohan right in the nose during a road trip to St. Louis. So much for that "Haymaker" nickname, since it was Tyke who threw the Haymaker and Cohan who took the ten count.

Of course none of this was good for the Chicago ball club. Despite Tyke having a POY campaign, the team sunk to last place amid all the infighting between Cohan and the rest of the players. Any sensible team would have run Cohan right out of town. The problem was that the Chicago owner was a longtime drinking buddy of Cohan and sided with him in the feud. It was a terrible, ugly season in the Windy City. Despite this, Tyke Walls did break Woody Woodson mark to set a new TWB record of .445.

That's the type of player that Tyke was, and the type of man he still is. I am always happy to buy him a round when we get together each year at the Hall of Fame. That's also the type of man that the great Harry Cohan was, and why everyone who ever played with him on the Chicago Nationals hated his guts. If Harry was a man enough to show up at the Hall of Fame, I have no doubt that Tyke would pop him right in the nose again. And I have no doubt that the 'Haymaker' would be taking the ten count again.

Don't even get me started on the story of how he was in on it with Ed Whelan to fix the 1917 World Series as he knew it was the only way the Cubs could beat that great White Sox club! The Great Harry Cohan, my ass!"




John, still never above throwing lighter fluid on the old Whiskey vs. Haymaker Feud...

[jdw]

fhomess - good stuff.


John

[Matt from TN]

Originally Posted by jdw

I haven't done a GG spreadsheet yet, but it looks like the record for SS GG's is 6 by Travis Hunt (1905-09, 1911), with Jeb Shaver and Kubic the only others with 5. Of course people have won many more at other positions. I know Kevin Stines and Woody Woodson both went double digits at 2B, while Cohan and Finley won 9 at catcher, and Ray Brown took 10 in the OF.

I've been wanting to do a GG spreadsheet too, so if you ever get one done, I'd love to have a copy!

Originally Posted by rogmax11

Real high quality "rambling", John, and a nice complement to this superlative thread.

Exactly... This is why I love reading my own thread! lol

Originally Posted by jdw

Whiskey getting to 300 wins would pretty much make the 300 level meaningless *on its own*. If a pitchers as mediocre to bad to most of his career can get to it, then it's nothing for a "good" pitcher to get to. We should be honest and admit that he's made the 250 win level meaninless.

Perhaps, but he did start pitching at age 18, so his longevity counts for the sheer # of wins he got... I don't think 250 is meaningless. It's just not automatic HOF consideration...

Originally Posted by jdw

He's young yet. He looked like he was going to be a good one with that 1934 season (.326/.382/.469/.851 at 20 years old). But he's lost his starting job since then Eric Teeuw, and this year was a disaster even after they unloaded Teeuw and gave Teq the job back. I'd lay money he bounces back in the next year or two.

I completely agree... I think he'll bounce back... But I've noticed a lot of these young guys w/ little playng time fall to 1 star... but I assume ootp6 still takes their ratings into account when determining who plays...

Btw, I went with Carlton's idea of changing player evaluation every month & it worked beautifully... started with 15/5/55/25... then reduced last year by 10 and 2 yrs ago by 5 every month, giving those 15 pts to this yr's stats... I noticed star ratings change because of this (not immediately, but after simming more)... Then before I proceeded to next season, I returned it to 15/5/55/25 so the beginning season star ratings would be correct.

Originally Posted by jdw

fhomess - good stuff.

Yes, it was great. I can't wait to see more of teams looking back, however they choose to do it.

Originally Posted by jdw

So much for that "Haymaker" nickname, since it was Tyke who threw the Haymaker and Cohan who took the ten count.

LMAO!!

[Matt from TN]

1939 Offseason News

The Phillies moved out of the hitter-friendly Baker Bowl and will know share a home with the Athletics - Shibe Park. This stadium seems to favor hitters somewhat, but not to the degree that the Baker Bowl did. This should undoubtedly help the Phillies pitching staff, who had a terrible season last year.

Chip Houk has been hired as the new manager of the Red Sox, who have grown impatient with their lack of progress. Houk was a former major league shortstop with the Senators and Braves, who remained in Boston after retiring. After just one season - one horribly disappointing season - the Phillies parted ways with Dummy Netsky, who had local fans calling for his head after the team set a franchise record for losses. Taking over will be Bop Vacha, a Hall of Fame caliber third baseman who played for the Red Sox and Reds. In a surprising announcement, Cardinals manager Leonard Walsh decided to end his tenure as manager and move into the team's front office. After 25 years as skipper, Walsh made the move only after hearing that Hall of Fame pitcher Tim "Presto" Lopresto was interested in a shot at managing. Lopresto and Walsh have a great respect for one another, so the move was made.

When this year's Hall of Fame votes were counted, we were shocked to discover that no players earned the 75% of votes needed for election. The closest player to that level was former Giants centerfielder Campbell Ditty, who narrowly missed the cutoff with 73%.

[Matt from TN]

Originally Posted by fhomess

One thing I will say, is that it was slightly unclear to me what years the team changed nicknames.

Cleveland began as the Blues in 1901, became the Broncos in 1903 and the Indians in 1916.



One other note, I don't expect to be able to post any updates over the long weekend (Sat-Mon), but one never knows. However, as promised, I'll be devoting a lot of my free time to the thread starting on Tues and lasting about 2 weeks... We have 6 seasons to sim before we go-live, which I expect to happen in August...

Also look for the "Go-live" thread, which I hope to use for ideas on WWII and other stuff that may come up. The 1940 HOF ballot should be up soon, but I'm not sure if it'll be done before Tues or not.

[jdw]

Matt wrote:

> I've been wanting to do a GG spreadsheet too, so if you
> ever get one done, I'd love to have a copy!

I'll work on it this weekend while taking it easy getting over this nasty bout of bronchitis that I've had to work through. No doubt my grandfather Doc Barton would have caught this a bit earlier than I did and gotten me on the antibotics quicker.

I'll shoot you a copy of it. It probably will have sheets on Player of the Week, Pitcher of the Month and Batter of the Month as well. Trying to get all that stuff together to look at for the White Sox History. Some of it's rather minor (like the Week ones), but if you're suffering through a bad series of years, it might be able to point to a "bright spot".


> Exactly... This is why I love reading my own thread! lol

*big laugh*


> Perhaps, but he did start pitching at age 18, so his longevity
> counts for the sheer # of wins he got... I don't think 250 is
> meaningless. It's just not automatic HOF consideration...

Agreed that longevity is what did it. Perhaps my point would be that he was so clearly medicore or bad so much of his career yet *still* getting starts (and wins as a byproduct) that it really puts the wood to looking at win totals on their own as even an indicator of a "good" pitcher.

No doubt Jr. was a good pitcher in his best four or so years. He was probably average in several more. But his high ratings notwithstanding, you've got to think that in RL he wouldn't be getting these starts.

I don't think it's a flaw in TWB because of TWB. More likely it's a flaw in OOTP itself. Teams just wouldn't give that many starts to a pitcher trolling along with a 6.63 ERA unless he was a "star" working through something. When Jr did that in 1925, he'd never even been good by that point. A normal team would have sent Jr down to the minors or the pen and given someone else a few starts to show something... then someone else... then someone else. Someone like Jr. may eventually get a crack back in the rotation in such a season due to injuries or someone else failing, but you'd have think that RL teams would be "trying something" to see what would shake out.


> I completely agree... I think he'll bounce back... But I've
> noticed a lot of these young guys w/ little playng time fall
> to 1 star... but I assume ootp6 still takes their ratings into
> account when determining who plays...

I hope they don't given Doc's sinking star ratings!


> Btw, I went with Carlton's idea of changing player evaluation
> every month & it worked beautifully...

Cool.

"Better listen to him, Flounder - he's pre-law."
-Otter, Animal House




> Yes, it was great. I can't wait to see more of teams
> looking back, however they choose to do it.

Yeah. There are a number of ways to do it. I just pointed to the NBA ones since overall they seem to force every team to do something. If anyone else has example of ways to do it, dump them in the TWB Going Live thread. That maybe be a better one Commissionem Landis to hammer things out with the owners.


John

[Matt from TN]

Originally Posted by jdw

I'll shoot you a copy of it. It probably will have sheets on Player of the Week, Pitcher of the Month and Batter of the Month as well. Trying to get all that stuff together to look at for the White Sox History. Some of it's rather minor (like the Week ones), but if you're suffering through a bad series of years, it might be able to point to a "bright spot".

I'm 75% done with a manager's spreadsheet too... I have all but 4 teams in... Will be fun to track wins, win% and WS there... Plus we have to decide what to do after "go-live" concerning hiring/firing manager & who new prospective mgr's are....

Originally Posted by jdw

I don't think it's a flaw in TWB because of TWB. More likely it's a flaw in OOTP itself. Teams just wouldn't give that many starts to a pitcher trolling along with a 6.63 ERA unless he was a "star" working through something. When Jr did that in 1925, he'd never even been good by that point. A normal team would have sent Jr down to the minors or the pen and given someone else a few starts to show something... then someone else... then someone else. Someone like Jr. may eventually get a crack back in the rotation in such a season due to injuries or someone else failing, but you'd have think that RL teams would be "trying something" to see what would shake out.

I think ootp6 will be much better at this, since by using Carlton's formula, I saw star ratings change the better/worse a player did during the season since as the season went on, the current years stats became much, much more important (80% by Sept I believe).

[Carlton]

Originally Posted by Matt from TN

Cleveland began as the Blues in 1901, became the Broncos in 1903 and the Indians in 1916.



One other note, I don't expect to be able to post any updates over the long weekend (Sat-Mon), but one never knows. However, as promised, I'll be devoting a lot of my free time to the thread starting on Tues and lasting about 2 weeks... We have 6 seasons to sim before we go-live, which I expect to happen in August...

Also look for the "Go-live" thread, which I hope to use for ideas on WWII and other stuff that may come up. The 1940 HOF ballot should be up soon, but I'm not sure if it'll be done before Tues or not.

It always surprised me that you named them the Broncos instead of the Bronchos, which by what I have seen is what they were called. Broncho is Spanish for untamed Mustang...funny why Cleveland would use a Spanish nickname...

IRL It was the Blues 1901
Bronchos 1902
Naps 1903-1914
Indians 1915-on

Now that I think about, I am ticked at myself for not having them rename themselves the Fourniers or the Canucks in honor of the TRUE Cleveland franchise Frenchie Fournier the 1st Canadian superstar (another jab at Whiskey lol) from 1903-1914

As for WWII, my granpa Ed Rossi should be of age and I ask everyone, especially in this time of turmoil in our lives...be patriotic, if your ancestor is 18-28 then let them serve! This is coming from a Veteran

I am glad my AI evaluation worked Matt, this should have kept rookies down in the minors for most of the year, had Vets hold on to their job until it was obvious they couldn't handle it, and promoted a player with lesser ratings over slightly higher ratings if he was having a better year...so we can have one hit wonders.

On an aside, I would to get my hand on the almanac, I am stuck on Phillies history, since when the Cubs and Cards became dominant, the Phillies were not talked about much in this thread. Is there somewhere you can put up the Almanac? Free site like Geocities or something?

and John, great once again, not only the Statman, but our very own Baseball humorist...I swear if you quit this league I will hunt you down, I am joining just to see what obscure stats you find as much as I am joining for the world Matt has given us. I mean it...you ever quit, I'll give YOU a Haymaker...a TROY Haymaker (rimshot)

and BP (can't recall his handle) where is the next article from that sweet small town paper???

[tward13]

Wondering about the war years. Yes players will leave. How about those who stay, and the replacements?

Will there be any adjustment of ratings to reflect the disparity in talent? You'll have some mid-30s who will hang around and maybe get a boost by playing less talented opponents. You'll get some prime ages players who should dominate because of the lessened competition. Then there will be those replacement players who certainly won't be up to the normal talent levels.

[metsgeek]

Originally Posted by tward13

Wondering about the war years. Yes players will leave. How about those who stay, and the replacements?

Will there be any adjustment of ratings to reflect the disparity in talent? You'll have some mid-30s who will hang around and maybe get a boost by playing less talented opponents. You'll get some prime ages players who should dominate because of the lessened competition. Then there will be those replacement players who certainly won't be up to the normal talent levels.

I don't think the current players should have their ratings adjusted, but I certainly think that the rookie classes from '41-'44 or '45 should have their creation modifiers adjusted down by -10 to -20%, perhaps with the exception of the ancestors.