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Old 04-02-2023, 11:46 AM   #121
Dr Naysay
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Originally Posted by tonnage View Post
I'm not seeing it as bad as most are saying here. In my fictional save seldom do I question a trade and I make sure to read every AI to AI trade that takes place. Again, my settings are 60, 25, 10, 5, I have trading set to the hardest level, and AI trading set to very low. I don't sim games, I play every game one-pitch mode. Works for me.
I use your settings and it's definitely the best for trading imo.
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Old 04-02-2023, 12:27 PM   #122
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I'm not seeing it as bad as most are saying here. In my fictional save seldom do I question a trade and I make sure to read every AI to AI trade that takes place. Again, my settings are 60, 25, 10, 5, I have trading set to the hardest level, and AI trading set to very low. I don't sim games, I play every game one-pitch mode. Works for me.
I'm playing through ST and am also using "very low". In my last ST, in v23, with normal trading there were 7 trades. I'm currently 19 games into my 28 game schedule (same number of games as v23) and there have been two trades with very low. Nothing earth shattering as far as stars or prospects that shouldn't be traded.

Seem ok to me until we see a patch.
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Old 04-03-2023, 07:01 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by CBLCardinals View Post
Does real life MLB never have “awful” trades?
Where would Glasnow, Meadows, and Baz to TB for Chris Archer to PIT rank?


Also - are any of these players too expensive for a team to retain or are any in final contract season?

Probably a lot more variables occurring than just surface level.

lol...no matter horrible the flaws, there are always some who defend OOTP devs. Face it - the game has gone downhill tremendously
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Old 04-04-2023, 12:25 AM   #124
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Old 04-04-2023, 06:53 AM   #125
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lol...no matter horrible the flaws, there are always some who defend OOTP devs. Face it - the game has gone downhill tremendously
OK I've kept my big mouth shut long enough... You sir are an !#$$@!

There have been THREE versions already of how to "fix" the trading issues offered in this thread, along with OOTP staffers saying they are looking into it. WHAT ELSE DO YOU WANT?

I have played this game since BEFORE it was called OOTP##, and EVERY year there has been a crisis or issue and along the way those developers you are criticizing have stayed in touch with us here on the forums taking information and helpful suggestions... AND every year they make good changes to the version/game!!! Which is ONE reason there are so many posters who have thousands of posts and defend these developers because their track record over the years is so darn good!!!

Since you obviously need your hand held through this overwhelming crisis,
1) re-read the earlier posts where they TELL you some of the stats/skill percentages the posters used while setting up the game and they are telling us they aren't having such a big problem with trades - then actually GO TRY them out and find out what works for you!!
2) Go to YouTube and search "OOTP24 trades" THEN actually watch the 2024 videos by some very knowledgeable people (like Sgt. Mushroom and pfholden) - they are chock full of good advice on setting your game up and you might actually learn something about how the game engine has hidden components/information that helps you "see in the game" through the results.
3) LEARN and EARN some respect from others - Try being a contributing member - we are only in the first week of April and you have empirically decided "The developers suck and the game has gone down tremendously"??? P L E A S E!!! Hate to lose a player, but just go demand your refund and go away if you don't have anything positive to say. Good riddance! STOMP STOMP STOMP (The Angry Orc has returned to his rightful place under the OOTP bridge...)
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Old 04-04-2023, 08:23 AM   #126
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Posts like this remind me I miss the LIKE button.
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Old 04-04-2023, 08:36 AM   #127
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I have done some more testing and simming, and so far, the best settings I've found to tame down the AI's propensity for increased trading is trading set on low for the whole season, but on very low during the offseason and the month of July, along with 60/20/15/5 player eval. I think both of those things are crucial

Sadly, this does mean that for the player at the max trading difficulty, prying any useable vet that is not completly over the hill or grossly overpaid, will need one or many prospects or cost controlled players, which was not the case with my beloved 25/25/25/25.

I've also found more established position players on the waiver wire in season using these settings, probably because with such high weight given to ratings, the AI will roster younger guys instead of vets if the vet's ratings drop.
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Old 04-04-2023, 09:00 AM   #128
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I have done some more testing and simming, and so far, the best settings I've found to tame down the AI's propensity for increased trading is trading set on low for the whole season, but on very low during the offseason and the month of July, along with 60/20/15/5 player eval. I think both of those things are crucial

Sadly, this does mean that for the player at the max trading difficulty, prying any useable vet that is not completly over the hill or grossly overpaid, will need one or many prospects or cost controlled players, which was not the case with my beloved 25/25/25/25.

I've also found more established position players on the waiver wire in season using these settings, probably because with such high weight given to ratings, the AI will roster younger guys instead of vets if the vet's ratings drop.
Thank you for posting something that is constructive.
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Old 04-04-2023, 10:14 AM   #129
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Wow! Great work. I commend you for rolling up your sleeves and producing a lot of useful data.


I second that. Great work and thanks on all our behalfs.
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Old 04-04-2023, 10:41 AM   #130
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lol...no matter horrible the flaws, there are always some who defend OOTP devs. Face it - the game has gone downhill tremendously

Ugh! Some people...
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Old 04-04-2023, 04:03 PM   #131
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Thank you for posting something that is constructive.
Thank you. Another thing that I have noticed (I've simmed about 10 starts for 3 years at this point) is that the first year is the worse when it comes to the insane trade volume and wonky behaviour.

The subsequent years the AI controlled teams are much more tame, even on average trade setting, probably because the new budget have gone into effect and since the AI is rostering players it values and not the ones inherited by the real life rosters.

I have experienced the same thing in my game too.

I'd still say that right now low or very low trade frequncy along with a high to very high weight given to ratings is key to not have your world get into bizarro territory right away.
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Old 04-04-2023, 05:00 PM   #132
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Thank you. Another thing that I have noticed (I've simmed about 10 starts for 3 years at this point) is that the first year is the worse when it comes to the insane trade volume and wonky behaviour.

The subsequent years the AI controlled teams are much more tame, even on average trade setting, probably because the new budget have gone into effect and since the AI is rostering players it values and not the ones inherited by the real life rosters.


I have experienced the same thing in my game too.

I'd still say that right now low or very low trade frequncy along with a high to very high weight given to ratings is key to not have your world get into bizarro territory right away.

I think this is true for imported games too. One's roster has to go through the new changes in roster AI building one time and let the AI get players where it likes them. After that it's is working from a settled base and the changes slow down.
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Old 04-04-2023, 05:47 PM   #133
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I've also found more established position players on the waiver wire in season using these settings, probably because with such high weight given to ratings, the AI will roster younger guys instead of vets if the vet's ratings drop.
Yes I'm seeing this too. AI tends to pull the trigger on these vets who are slipping a bit a lot faster and just puts them on waivers. Yes it does happen in real life but not use to seeing it in ootp
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Old 04-04-2023, 05:48 PM   #134
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Good read!

Quote:
Originally Posted by billyray1984 View Post
Thank you. Another thing that I have noticed (I've simmed about 10 starts for 3 years at this point) is that the first year is the worse when it comes to the insane trade volume and wonky behaviour.

The subsequent years the AI controlled teams are much more tame, even on average trade setting, probably because the new budget have gone into effect and since the AI is rostering players it values and not the ones inherited by the real life rosters.

I have experienced the same thing in my game too.

I'd still say that right now low or very low trade frequency along with a high to very high weight given to ratings is key to not have your world get into bizarro territory right away.
Greetings - I'm on my fourth start of OOTP24 so far and I too, am thankful for your good work here and for displaying your findings.

The current setup I'm trying is the 25/25/25/25 that PSU Colonel used in his previous games, with Very Hard/Very Low trades. I'm in mid April and four A.I. trades have occurred with only ONE (Angels/Rockies) involving a player on Colorado's 40 man roster Colorado IF E. Montero went to the Angels for a two star OF (pretty sure he is fictional player), and a half star IF. The three other trades are minor leaguers at A/AA level, of which none are high potential or skills. The player ratings generally are less than 35 across the board and my scouting director doesn't think much of these players either, but these A.I. trades went through. There are less than 10 players on the MLB trade screen seeking a trade so far, with nothing worth going after, but I also note my scout is, so far, VERY bad at upgrading the scouting grade/rating of my 40 man squad, but it still seems like a strong sim for a bad Detroit Tigers team.
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Old 04-04-2023, 05:56 PM   #135
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One thing I've noticed though is that ironically, we are not getting enough offers during the dynamic trade deadline. It's maybe one per period even on normal settings. The dynamic deadline is super disappointing honestly, I expected live offers flying back and forth at a high volume.

But you can't change the trade frequency specifically for the human-AI, just the overall AI trade frequency.
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Old 04-04-2023, 09:48 PM   #136
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I think this is true for imported games too. One's roster has to go through the new changes in roster AI building one time and let the AI get players where it likes them. After that it's is working from a settled base and the changes slow down.
That makes me immediately question:

What is it then that the game engine doesn't have or hasn't calculated in order to make it behave this way in the inaugural season?
That seems really odd.
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Old 04-04-2023, 10:31 PM   #137
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That makes me immediately question:

What is it then that the game engine doesn't have or hasn't calculated in order to make it behave this way in the inaugural season?
That seems really odd.
My imported roster is running through new code that has different"improved" values(?) for evaluation than the last version. The thought is after the AI has gone through using that particular code once, the second time through will result in fewer moves. IE a lot of players are now, based on the new code, where the code thinks they "should" be.

I posted, as an example, earlier in this thread that in v23 after import, in my first v23 season there were 56 trades in the offseason to spring training window. In my second season there were 29 trades in the same window, with the same settings. It's just what I think happens based on what I see in my game from year to year.

I don't play with the new rosters included but I think there is a similar action with that too. The roster team at OOTP Dev. set 'em up to be as accurate as possible but then the AI takes over and makes it's moves. From what I have read, users there too, think there are fewer moves the second season as the rosters and AI reach a kind of equilibrium (for lack of a better word).
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Old 04-04-2023, 11:28 PM   #138
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Yes I'm seeing this too. AI tends to pull the trigger on these vets who are slipping a bit a lot faster and just puts them on waivers. Yes it does happen in real life but not use to seeing it in ootp
It's a tricky balance. On one hand, the AI using ratings more means they'll be more competitive against humans. They'll ditch the vets who are declining and replace them with higher rated players. But it's also not realistic to have teams just waiving a solid veteran because they had a ratings drop.

Hopefully this is taken constructively, but here's a few things I think might improve the AI.

1) Regression feels too linear. Once a player starts declining, they're just going to keep declining. I feel like that's not always the case in baseball as players age. Sure over a long period of time, they will regress, but there are more fluctuations from season to season. Take a look at a player like Yu Darvish. His season last year would never happen in OOTP. The decline would appear to start in 2021 and he'd probably be out of the league by 2023. But in real life, he found something and had a resurgent season. It's not super common, but I think more fluctuations in ratings on a year by year basis would help make veterans more valuable. So maybe a player starts to decline at age 30 for a couple years, has a resurgent season at 33 or 34, then starts that slow decline again.

2) Regression of ratings happen too fast during the season. You can start a season with a veteran player who is rated as a mediocre player at the start. By June, their ratings have completely tanked and they'd struggle to survive in A ball. Players do fall off, but I think it happens too rapidly too often. For the most part, players slowly regress over time and it's rarely that dramatic over the span of a couple months. I don't know how the game handles ratings internally, but maybe a wider range (0-10000 lets say) would allow for more gradual regression. On the human side, we wouldn't see that wide range.

3) I don't think the AI puts enough emphasis on team control. It has improved a great deal when it comes to prospects in the minors. But once a player is in his 3rd year, it doesn't seem to value those next few years of affordable team control as much as it should. It's not something major that needs to be changed, just some minor tweaking to make sure those good young players have a little more perceived value.

4) Prospect for prospect trades. I'd like to see teams who have an abundance of a position in the minors trade for a need they have in the minors with another team. Say team A is loaded with pitching prospects but light on infielders. Team B is the opposite. It would make sense for them to make a trade for say 3 star prospects to level that up a bit. Both teams get more balanced and that should make them more competitive against humans.

5) AI teams don't seem to factor in future regression of a veteran into their dealmaking as much as they should. I feel it's far too easy to dump a decent veteran as soon as they've started to decline but have years left on their deal. Only contenders should be looking to make those trades and they should be more wary of anticipated production in the later years of the contract.

I don't think the AI is too far off. Most of these things feel like minor tweaks (outside of a more dynamic regression). Hopefully this doesn't come across negative and more constructive. Just what I've experienced in the game.

Last edited by Bears5122; 04-04-2023 at 11:31 PM.
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Old 04-05-2023, 07:50 AM   #139
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I think this is very constructive.
Then again, I'm a Bears fan too.
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Old 04-05-2023, 10:14 AM   #140
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It's a tricky balance. On one hand, the AI using ratings more means they'll be more competitive against humans. They'll ditch the vets who are declining and replace them with higher rated players. But it's also not realistic to have teams just waiving a solid veteran because they had a ratings drop.

Hopefully this is taken constructively, but here's a few things I think might improve the AI.

1) Regression feels too linear. Once a player starts declining, they're just going to keep declining. I feel like that's not always the case in baseball as players age. Sure over a long period of time, they will regress, but there are more fluctuations from season to season. Take a look at a player like Yu Darvish. His season last year would never happen in OOTP. The decline would appear to start in 2021 and he'd probably be out of the league by 2023. But in real life, he found something and had a resurgent season. It's not super common, but I think more fluctuations in ratings on a year by year basis would help make veterans more valuable. So maybe a player starts to decline at age 30 for a couple years, has a resurgent season at 33 or 34, then starts that slow decline again.

2) Regression of ratings happen too fast during the season. You can start a season with a veteran player who is rated as a mediocre player at the start. By June, their ratings have completely tanked and they'd struggle to survive in A ball. Players do fall off, but I think it happens too rapidly too often. For the most part, players slowly regress over time and it's rarely that dramatic over the span of a couple months. I don't know how the game handles ratings internally, but maybe a wider range (0-10000 lets say) would allow for more gradual regression. On the human side, we wouldn't see that wide range.

3) I don't think the AI puts enough emphasis on team control. It has improved a great deal when it comes to prospects in the minors. But once a player is in his 3rd year, it doesn't seem to value those next few years of affordable team control as much as it should. It's not something major that needs to be changed, just some minor tweaking to make sure those good young players have a little more perceived value.

4) Prospect for prospect trades. I'd like to see teams who have an abundance of a position in the minors trade for a need they have in the minors with another team. Say team A is loaded with pitching prospects but light on infielders. Team B is the opposite. It would make sense for them to make a trade for say 3 star prospects to level that up a bit. Both teams get more balanced and that should make them more competitive against humans.

5) AI teams don't seem to factor in future regression of a veteran into their dealmaking as much as they should. I feel it's far too easy to dump a decent veteran as soon as they've started to decline but have years left on their deal. Only contenders should be looking to make those trades and they should be more wary of anticipated production in the later years of the contract.

I don't think the AI is too far off. Most of these things feel like minor tweaks (outside of a more dynamic regression). Hopefully this doesn't come across negative and more constructive. Just what I've experienced in the game.
Very constructive. One could always quibble over the details but big picture it's on point. I would add that I'd like to see the AI take more note of a player's injury history before awarding that long term contract. I look at that "fragile" or "wrecked" player and think, "no way". I think the AI looks at those guy's ratings and stats and thinks "yeah" without noting he's usually missing quite a bit of time.
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