Suggestions for the pitching system

[RonCo]

Originally Posted by injury log

I imagine you're talking about me, in part (at the end of item (2) at least )

Sure, partially maybe. But let me be clear in saying that I fully respect your knowledge base and approach. There have been others that would speak merely from a base of supporting Markus that I found to be ... well ... not as positive to work with as you. We have often disagreed with these kinds of things, but I completely respect your point of view.

. I've often preferred the simpler of two alternative implementations of a feature for two reasons: first, I have never known Markus to be inclined to code overly complex features, so I think they're rarely worth discussing, and second, because OOTP needs to find a compromise between realism and gameplay. Adding complexity may add realism, but it sometimes doesn't add to the user experience of the game.

Enabling Markus is sometimes problematic. Realize that most of the added complexity of any model would need to be hidden from the user. Doing the deep properly should make the game easier to play rather than more complex.

I'd really like to get one build from Markus in which two things were true:

* the game generated zero, or almost zero, superstar relievers in the draft pool;

* the game generated no HS relievers (that is, 2 pitch pitchers) at all.

The best way to get the above is to remove the need for an artificial differentiation of roles.

I think player creation works as it does right now because Markus thinks you'll need star RPs in the draft to generate Mariano Riveras. That may be true, but I'd be curious to know, if there were no future Mariano Riveras in the draft pool, to see where the better OOTP relievers come from. We'd at least then have a better idea how far we can shift player creation, and perhaps what needs to happen during pitcher development.

Player creation is a problem for more reasons than the pitcher role thing. The weird player creation process causes (or at least magnifies) several of the oddities in the development process across the board.

[ike121212]

Originally Posted by RonCo

Markus wants nothing more than to continue to have the best baseball sim in existence. One may think he's misguided in some ways, but it's helpful to keep this in perspective.

I don't doubt that at all. In my experience with him, if he feels something is working well, it's very difficult to get him to consider that it might not be. This has always been one of those areas.

[RonCo]

This is certainly true to some extent.

[ike121212]

Originally Posted by injury log

I'd really like to get one build from Markus in which two things were true:

* the game generated zero, or almost zero, superstar relievers in the draft pool;

* the game generated no HS relievers (that is, 2 pitch pitchers) at all.

I tinkered around a little bit with this basic idea. For 20 years in my 48 team league, I edited the draft pool. For RP's and CL's over 40 potential and 8+ stam (out of 20), I added a weak 3rd pitch. If they had less than 8 stam, I deleted them from the game.

Here's the basic results:
2011 MLB NL Starters: 3.98
2011 MLB NL Relievers: 3.59

Before Starters: 4.31
Before Relievers: 3.63

After Starters: 4.07
After Relievers: 4.05

I went a little bit too far, but given how deeply I cut into the RP's, not as badly as I expected. The average starting rotation was a little bit too good. The average bullpen just a little too weak. Closer's came from a variety of sources, almost equally: International finds, random talent hit RP's, and weak third pitch studs. The nice part is, those studs, who previously were 3rd round picks, were now high first round picks.

[ike121212]

Had a little more fun messing with the draft pool. This time, every year I deleted all 60+ potential relievers.

After 20 years, Starter's ERA was 4:32, Reliever's 3:94.

The quality of closers didn't suffer much. Every team had either a quality random talent bump draftee or international find at CL. The difference was in the back end of the bullpen. I really like the way this experiment turned out. It's easy enough to do and would let me play, without the feeling that I'm cheating the AI every time I draft a reliever.

I still like the idea of more weak third pitch guys. There's probably a good middle ground between the 2 tests I ran, but adding pitches each year is tedious to test.