Spritze DB's for OOTP11 - Page 7

terpsfan101 · 05-16-2010, 06:47 PM

Aumakua: "so what is the "2" for? if editing CSV files, which ones should I edit?"

The 2 means neutralized statistics. When working with the CSV files you need to edit both the real and neutralized tables. If you want to make Babe Ruth a Red Sox in 1920, you would need to change the Ruth's teamID's in the Batting, Batting2, Pitching, Pitching2, Fielding, and Fielding2 tables.

elmerlee · 05-16-2010, 08:08 PM

I'm wondering why both the "1" and "2" files would need edited if
both contain the same (almost) fields but different stats.

Would the game not just enter the files that apply to your choice
during the setup?

Not trying to dispute your info but I thought I might fiddle with
the files and see what happens. Just trying to get as much info as
I can so please do not be offended.

Aumakua · 05-16-2010, 11:24 PM

So looking at their early years, in the first years of their careers this database is showing the wrong amount of wins, Babe Ruth was 2-1 in 1914 but this database shows him as 23-10

Cy young only had 9 wins in 1890 but this database shows 25 and therefore 527 career wins.

is this something that is happening with all pitchers for some reason in their first year?

also another odd thing, If I start in 1890 Cy Young is in the game, if I start in 1886 he is in the game (at 16) but if I start in 1888 he is not in the game and not in the first amateur draft either.

Aumakua · 05-16-2010, 11:51 PM

okay so in the files Cy Young has stats for pre-1890 but those don't show up if you load a game in say 1905, just his stats starting in 1890 do,

BUT Kid Nichols also starting his ML career in 1890 but his added stats are included in his career stats and the game shows him starting in 1887.

how many players is this happening with where it shows their "added years" as part of their career years?

thanks

Spritze · 05-17-2010, 03:18 AM

The "2" files are neutered major league stats as well as neutered minor league stats in my db's and the "1" files are the Lahman regular major league stats and those same neutered minor league stats.

The "added" years show up because these stats produce the ratings OOTP uses for these players in those years. If you start in 1871 the "added" stats never show up. This is the way it must be to get OOTP to create reasonable ratings for these non-major league years. If you start part way through history you must use the erase all career stats feature to start your leagues without these "added" stat lines. That also negates ALL the non-added stat lines as well. Just how it works.

mikecos23 · 05-17-2010, 09:10 AM

Spritze downloaded updated RealTeamStatsNoAsians version from Padresfan site and am still having the import problem from before. Starting a season in 1987, all players from the Giants, Padres, Yankees, Dodgers, Cubs, and White Sox are in the Free Agent pool, not assigned to their real team.

Aumakua · 05-17-2010, 10:50 AM

Okay so if using the HS database it's best to start in 1871 if starting mid history and wanting real historical stats we should use the real debuts rosters...

Spritze · 05-17-2010, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikecos23

Spritze downloaded updated RealTeamStatsNoAsians version from Padresfan site and am still having the import problem from before. Starting a season in 1987, all players from the Giants, Padres, Yankees, Dodgers, Cubs, and White Sox are in the Free Agent pool, not assigned to their real team.

I am in Kenya at the moment working on an hiv/aids mother/child transmission project for Unicef, so the team abbreviation matching thing has not been fixed and won't be until I return to the USA in another week or so. I am prioritizing. Babies first, OOTP second.

Spritze · 05-17-2010, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aumakua

Okay so if using the HS database it's best to start in 1871 if starting mid history and wanting real historical stats we should use the real debuts rosters...

If starting mid-history you could begin with the std Lahman stuff but many players would be skipped and never enter the league, OOTP uses ALL the stats it finds as Major League stats. That is just how it works. That is why you see the minor league neutered stats mixed in with the "real" stats. The old Gambo db left the extra 1's blank and required one to use neutered stats only I think. I never used it so I don't really know for sure and I don't know for sure what his new ones does or how it functions yet since it doesn't yet exist. I believe it may exist fairly shortly though.

Best bet is to always start in 1871 and sim to where you want to start actually playing?

Bottom line is that since ALL stats in OOTP are Major League stats whether they really are or not, there will be mixing, but since using a mod db really adds a lot of fictional elements to historical play I don't know how worked up I should get over it. I mean having Paige pitch to anyone in a major league game in 1930 is fairly unhistorical from the getgo so if Cy Young has 577 Wins instead of some other number..........

terpsfan101 · 05-17-2010, 07:41 PM

There are two ways you can get the correct history to import. Both methods require you to use the neutralized version of the database. I used the first method in OOTP10. The second method didn't work in last years version of the game, but supposedly worked in OOTP9 and previous versions of the game. I haven't tested either method out yet in OOTP11.

1. Import the batting, pitching, fielding, and fieldingOF tables from Spritze or Gambo's database in MS Acess. Then import the batting, pitching, fielding, and fieldingOF tables from the Lahman database. Delete all previous years from Gambo/Spritze's batting, pitching, fielding, and fieldingOF tables prior to your starting year. If your starting in 1920, then delete everything prior to 1920. Then append the statistics from the lahman database from 1871-1919 to the batting, pitching, fielding, and fieldingOF tables. Export your tables, and select import entire history. Warning, if you don't have a lot of memory (less than a Gigabyte), you will have to increase the size of your paging file. I would say your memory + paging file has to equal approximately 2 GB, or the game will crash when trying to load the database during the initial league creation.

2. Replace the fake Major league statistics in Spritze's/Gambo's database with blank stat lines in the batting, pitching, fielding, and fieldingOF tables. Basically, you begin with the standard Lahman batting, pitching, fielding, and fieldingOF tables, and do an update query with the Spritze/Gambo tables. Once Spritze fixes the teamID's in his databases and Gambo releases his database, I am going to see if this method works in OOTP11. If it does work successfully, I'll make available a modified version of their databases (with their permission).

Aumakua · 05-17-2010, 08:58 PM

great suggestion, I tried loading the csv files with complete history and windows 7 closes the program when importing players hits 100% done, not sure why. I have 6GB memory and 9 GB paging file, nothing else running.

terpsfan101 · 05-17-2010, 10:24 PM

Did you move/delete the ODB file? You might have to remove the ODB file if you are trying to import from the CSV files. There really is no point in importing the entire history, unless you have followed one of the 2 steps I mentioned in my last post.

Aumakua · 05-17-2010, 10:56 PM

yeah I removed the odb file and just have the csv files. If I import 1900 or 1905 it works fine, but if I import 1920 it crashes, guess 6GB of RAM and a large paging file isn't enough for that much data, wouldn't even think of loading 1970,

Spritze · 05-23-2010, 11:04 AM

There are 40,543 player/seasons whose team ID's have either been changed in the new Lahman57 version or are just plain wrong in it.

I am in the process of updating all these so the db re-matches the new teams file.

I'll rerun all the db's when done, I'll post when they are uploaded. Looks like this may take some time. The changes will be relatively easy to fix, the Lahman errors will need to fixed one by one.

terpsfan101 · 05-23-2010, 01:12 PM

Thanks for attempting to fix the teamID's. Good luck. When I tried fixing them I couldn't always match up the incorrect ID to the correct teamID. This was especially a problem for the 19th century, when there were multiple franchises in the same city. For instance, the incorrect ID for CIN in 1878 could refer to the CIN franchise (1882-present) or the CNR franchise (1876-1880).

Spritze · 05-24-2010, 12:17 AM

Got all the Team ID's updated today. Still need to re-create all the db's with the new info.

I'm also thinking of updating Garlons OOTP teams pre 1901 using some of the Real Team names and cities but keeping the structure as OOTP has it currently. It would just be a cosmetic change for the most part but would allow the "assign rookies to their real team" thing to work beginning in 1872. I think we are stuck with a draft in 1871 but until/unless I change this there is no real way to tell.

terpsfan101 · 05-24-2010, 03:40 AM

I didn't even realize you were using "fake teams" in the 19th century. Is the two-league structure always necessary? Why not use all the real teams (except for the PL, UA, and FL). Change the abbreviations of the AA to AL, and NA to NL. If the two-league structure is necessary, I guess you could change 6 of the 12 NL teams from 1892-1899 to AL teams. Prior to 1882, change half the teams to the AL. Don't use any of the current AL franchises until 1901. In other words, keep all the lahman team and franchise ID's, just change the lgID's. I have no idea if any of this would work.

Spritze · 05-24-2010, 09:25 AM

That structure is pretty much what Garlon did except he went the extra step and renamed the teams and connected them via the Franchise tag.

The change I'd make is only changing the names and team abbrev to their historical names and abbrev but leave them connected via the Franchise ID as they are now. If they don't stay connected teams will come into and go out of existance and leave all their players on the free agent lists. Plus I expect it might do bad things to various OOTP functions or Markus and Garlon would have probably set it up that way in the first place.

Gambo · 05-24-2010, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terpsfan101

There are two ways you can get the correct history to import. Both methods require you to use the neutralized version of the database. I used the first method in OOTP10. The second method didn't work in last years version of the game, but supposedly worked in OOTP9 and previous versions of the game. I haven't tested either method out yet in OOTP11.

1. Import the batting, pitching, fielding, and fieldingOF tables from Spritze or Gambo's database in MS Acess. Then import the batting, pitching, fielding, and fieldingOF tables from the Lahman database. Delete all previous years from Gambo/Spritze's batting, pitching, fielding, and fieldingOF tables prior to your starting year. If your starting in 1920, then delete everything prior to 1920. Then append the statistics from the lahman database from 1871-1919 to the batting, pitching, fielding, and fieldingOF tables. Export your tables, and select import entire history. Warning, if you don't have a lot of memory (less than a Gigabyte), you will have to increase the size of your paging file. I would say your memory + paging file has to equal approximately 2 GB, or the game will crash when trying to load the database during the initial league creation.

2. Replace the fake Major league statistics in Spritze's/Gambo's database with blank stat lines in the batting, pitching, fielding, and fieldingOF tables. Basically, you begin with the standard Lahman batting, pitching, fielding, and fieldingOF tables, and do an update query with the Spritze/Gambo tables. Once Spritze fixes the teamID's in his databases and Gambo releases his database, I am going to see if this method works in OOTP11. If it does work successfully, I'll make available a modified version of their databases (with their permission).

With this years version of the game you don't need to do this. Markus fixed the issue that made you have to do this. I was part of testing this and making sure it worked right.

When my version of the database is released the regular batting,fielding and pitching will be straight from the original files so the players will have the correct statistics (no need for blank lines anymore).

The batting2, etc will be a cleaned up (trimmed) version from Spritze's realteamsrealdebut that has "more accurate" debut and team assignments so users can import any year and have players on the right organizations on opening day.

I am working on getting some fixes to Spritze and will be realeased sometime soon (maybe)

terpsfan101 · 05-24-2010, 10:42 PM

Good news Gambo. This will save a lot of time. The reason why the blank-stat line didn't work in last years version of the game was that some of the ratings were being calculated from the "1" tables (real stats) when they were supposed to have been calculated from the "2" tables (neutralized stats).

05-16-2010, 11:24 PM	#123
Aumakua Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Flat lands Posts: 421	incorrect stats, Babe Ruth, cy young... So looking at their early years, in the first years of their careers this database is showing the wrong amount of wins, Babe Ruth was 2-1 in 1914 but this database shows him as 23-10 Cy young only had 9 wins in 1890 but this database shows 25 and therefore 527 career wins. is this something that is happening with all pitchers for some reason in their first year? also another odd thing, If I start in 1890 Cy Young is in the game, if I start in 1886 he is in the game (at 16) but if I start in 1888 he is not in the game and not in the first amateur draft either.

05-16-2010, 11:51 PM	#124
Aumakua Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Flat lands Posts: 421	another stat question, created years counting in career stats? okay so in the files Cy Young has stats for pre-1890 but those don't show up if you load a game in say 1905, just his stats starting in 1890 do, BUT Kid Nichols also starting his ML career in 1890 but his added stats are included in his career stats and the game shows him starting in 1887. how many players is this happening with where it shows their "added years" as part of their career years? thanks

05-17-2010, 08:58 PM	#131
Aumakua Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Flat lands Posts: 421	great suggestion, I tried loading the csv files with complete history and windows 7 closes the program when importing players hits 100% done, not sure why. I have 6GB memory and 9 GB paging file, nothing else running. Last edited by Aumakua; 05-17-2010 at 09:10 PM.

05-23-2010, 11:04 AM	#134
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,253	Team ID's There are 40,543 player/seasons whose team ID's have either been changed in the new Lahman57 version or are just plain wrong in it. I am in the process of updating all these so the db re-matches the new teams file. I'll rerun all the db's when done, I'll post when they are uploaded. Looks like this may take some time. The changes will be relatively easy to fix, the Lahman errors will need to fixed one by one.

05-16-2010, 06:47 PM	#121
terpsfan101 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 31	Aumakua: "so what is the "2" for? if editing CSV files, which ones should I edit?" The 2 means neutralized statistics. When working with the CSV files you need to edit both the real and neutralized tables. If you want to make Babe Ruth a Red Sox in 1920, you would need to change the Ruth's teamID's in the Batting, Batting2, Pitching, Pitching2, Fielding, and Fielding2 tables.

05-16-2010, 08:08 PM	#122
elmerlee Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 215	I'm wondering why both the "1" and "2" files would need edited if both contain the same (almost) fields but different stats. Would the game not just enter the files that apply to your choice during the setup? Not trying to dispute your info but I thought I might fiddle with the files and see what happens. Just trying to get as much info as I can so please do not be offended.

05-17-2010, 03:18 AM	#125
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,253	The "2" files are neutered major league stats as well as neutered minor league stats in my db's and the "1" files are the Lahman regular major league stats and those same neutered minor league stats. The "added" years show up because these stats produce the ratings OOTP uses for these players in those years. If you start in 1871 the "added" stats never show up. This is the way it must be to get OOTP to create reasonable ratings for these non-major league years. If you start part way through history you must use the erase all career stats feature to start your leagues without these "added" stat lines. That also negates ALL the non-added stat lines as well. Just how it works.

05-17-2010, 09:10 AM	#126
mikecos23 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Reading, PA, USA Posts: 117	Spritze downloaded updated RealTeamStatsNoAsians version from Padresfan site and am still having the import problem from before. Starting a season in 1987, all players from the Giants, Padres, Yankees, Dodgers, Cubs, and White Sox are in the Free Agent pool, not assigned to their real team.

05-17-2010, 10:50 AM	#127
Aumakua Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Flat lands Posts: 421	Okay so if using the HS database it's best to start in 1871 if starting mid history and wanting real historical stats we should use the real debuts rosters...

05-17-2010, 07:41 PM	#130
terpsfan101 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 31	There are two ways you can get the correct history to import. Both methods require you to use the neutralized version of the database. I used the first method in OOTP10. The second method didn't work in last years version of the game, but supposedly worked in OOTP9 and previous versions of the game. I haven't tested either method out yet in OOTP11. 1. Import the batting, pitching, fielding, and fieldingOF tables from Spritze or Gambo's database in MS Acess. Then import the batting, pitching, fielding, and fieldingOF tables from the Lahman database. Delete all previous years from Gambo/Spritze's batting, pitching, fielding, and fieldingOF tables prior to your starting year. If your starting in 1920, then delete everything prior to 1920. Then append the statistics from the lahman database from 1871-1919 to the batting, pitching, fielding, and fieldingOF tables. Export your tables, and select import entire history. Warning, if you don't have a lot of memory (less than a Gigabyte), you will have to increase the size of your paging file. I would say your memory + paging file has to equal approximately 2 GB, or the game will crash when trying to load the database during the initial league creation. 2. Replace the fake Major league statistics in Spritze's/Gambo's database with blank stat lines in the batting, pitching, fielding, and fieldingOF tables. Basically, you begin with the standard Lahman batting, pitching, fielding, and fieldingOF tables, and do an update query with the Spritze/Gambo tables. Once Spritze fixes the teamID's in his databases and Gambo releases his database, I am going to see if this method works in OOTP11. If it does work successfully, I'll make available a modified version of their databases (with their permission).

05-17-2010, 10:24 PM	#132
terpsfan101 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 31	Did you move/delete the ODB file? You might have to remove the ODB file if you are trying to import from the CSV files. There really is no point in importing the entire history, unless you have followed one of the 2 steps I mentioned in my last post.

05-17-2010, 10:56 PM	#133
Aumakua Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Flat lands Posts: 421	yeah I removed the odb file and just have the csv files. If I import 1900 or 1905 it works fine, but if I import 1920 it crashes, guess 6GB of RAM and a large paging file isn't enough for that much data, wouldn't even think of loading 1970,

05-23-2010, 01:12 PM	#135
terpsfan101 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 31	Thanks for attempting to fix the teamID's. Good luck. When I tried fixing them I couldn't always match up the incorrect ID to the correct teamID. This was especially a problem for the 19th century, when there were multiple franchises in the same city. For instance, the incorrect ID for CIN in 1878 could refer to the CIN franchise (1882-present) or the CNR franchise (1876-1880).

05-24-2010, 12:17 AM	#136
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,253	Got all the Team ID's updated today. Still need to re-create all the db's with the new info. I'm also thinking of updating Garlons OOTP teams pre 1901 using some of the Real Team names and cities but keeping the structure as OOTP has it currently. It would just be a cosmetic change for the most part but would allow the "assign rookies to their real team" thing to work beginning in 1872. I think we are stuck with a draft in 1871 but until/unless I change this there is no real way to tell.

05-24-2010, 03:40 AM	#137
terpsfan101 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 31	I didn't even realize you were using "fake teams" in the 19th century. Is the two-league structure always necessary? Why not use all the real teams (except for the PL, UA, and FL). Change the abbreviations of the AA to AL, and NA to NL. If the two-league structure is necessary, I guess you could change 6 of the 12 NL teams from 1892-1899 to AL teams. Prior to 1882, change half the teams to the AL. Don't use any of the current AL franchises until 1901. In other words, keep all the lahman team and franchise ID's, just change the lgID's. I have no idea if any of this would work.

05-24-2010, 09:25 AM	#138
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,253	That structure is pretty much what Garlon did except he went the extra step and renamed the teams and connected them via the Franchise tag. The change I'd make is only changing the names and team abbrev to their historical names and abbrev but leave them connected via the Franchise ID as they are now. If they don't stay connected teams will come into and go out of existance and leave all their players on the free agent lists. Plus I expect it might do bad things to various OOTP functions or Markus and Garlon would have probably set it up that way in the first place.

05-24-2010, 10:42 PM	#140
terpsfan101 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 31	Good news Gambo. This will save a lot of time. The reason why the blank-stat line didn't work in last years version of the game was that some of the ratings were being calculated from the "1" tables (real stats) when they were supposed to have been calculated from the "2" tables (neutralized stats).