All-Time Roster Project

[GForce22]

Hi all,

work on the All-time project has resumed. I had a conversion problem to OOTP5, but it's been fixed and I am starting work again on this project. No ETA, but it is moving again.

GH

[BigBen]

Not to rush you but could you give us a release date for this rosters set or it's too early ?
Thanks in advance

[bsbll_n_mn]

that was back in......08-12-2002 02:45 PM

nice work BigBen '

but the latest post was 06-10-2003 02:05 PM

[asaintsfan]

Any chance these rosters will make it???

BTW - I saw the Yanks roster and NO MANTLE??? What gives??

[GForce22]

Mantle is in the minors. That was in-game management. I'm adjusting how I was doing ratings, so that should be fixed.

It probably won't see daylight until OOTP6. I'm really not saying much about it because the work is sporadic.

GH

[GForce22]

Wow...it's been 4 months since I updated this thread.

Hopefully this will make up for that...the first release of the All-Time Roster Project will be on or before New Year's Day. I have been working a lot on it the past few months, fixing ratings I decided I wasn't happy with, changing my process a bit. And the results look really strong right now, though obviously you, the users, will be the final judge on that.

There will be updates to this, as it will likely be the last roster project I ever do. Time restraints keep me from doing the current rosters for OOTP6's release as I did last year, but this project is one I always wanted to do. It's been a long time coming, but the way things look now, I am very pleased.

I cover a lot in this thread as to how things will be set up. If you have any further questions, let me know and I'll be glad to answer them.

Hopefully, the number of you who have e-mailed and PM'd asking about this project since I started it will feel it is worth your wait.

GH

[joncarlos]

Awesome! Thanks for all the hard work! I'm excited about this project

[GForce22]

Thank me when it's done People have waited a lot longer than I anticipated for this. Fortunately, I feel good about it and am positive that the final version will be a really enjoyable product.

GH

[GForce22]

Guys,

I may need a little past New Year's. I wasn't taking into account losing time with my sister and parents coming to visit. It won't be much past, as there isn't much left to do before the beta release (while I'm getting feedback I'll be adding some other things, players, stadiums, salary structures, etc.). I just want to get something out there for you guys to chew on and give me feedback on. But I need to do some stuff with the Negro League team before release. Just not sure how much time I'll have for that the next week with family in town.

GH

[GForce22]

Just a bump to say...

expect v1 this week!

The updates from that point should come a lot quicker (how could they not? )

The Rundown:

-- 28 teams, two leagues (American & National).

-- Teams are the 26 before the last 4 expansion teams, one team comprised of players from the last 4 expansion teams, and the "Washington Senators," which is made up of Negro League stars and a few Japanese stars as well.

-- Players are rated to correlate to performance in "80's style" baseball. Frank "Home Run" Baker will not hit a max of 12 home runs in a season as he did in his career, but closer to 30-40 to reflect the difference in generation. These guys aren't just imported, but studied and rated accordingly to make a true universe rated on the same scale. Without doing that, a set like this just doesn't work, IMO.

-- Ages reflect when a player played. More recent players are younger. This creates an interesting dynamic as teams need to decide if they will hold on to a veteran if a good young player is coming up behind him, making franchise play a real joy in my eyes. For example, with my age variations, Jimmie Foxx is 29, right in his prime. Mark McGwire is 19. Jason Giambi 18. In 4 years, or when Foxx hits free agency, do the A's let him go to let one of the kids replace him. Do they trade him?

A better scenario...the Yankees have a 28 year old Joe DiMaggio and a 25 year old Mickey Mantle. Do they deal one of them to try to bring back young pitching, for example. Same with Yogi Berra/Bill Dickey (after all, I do not have a DH in this file, so the time needs to get split somewhere).

What about a team like the Mets, which has some potentially great pitching talent (remember, the Mets, because of the age variation, are full of very young guys...Seaver is only 22) but VERY little in the way of offense? Are they willing to part with that to improve at one or even two offensive positions? (in one sim they dealt Seaver to the Pirates for Clemente and veteran second baseman George Grantham, a deal that helped both sides as the Pirates are offensively strong but pitching challenged).

I've seen projects like this that have done things like make everyone 20 or something of that nature in order to have everyone have a long career. The problem with that is there is only so much playing time to go around. Some guys would never get an opportunity. My hope is that this method makes someone have to work to be on top. Each division seems to have a defined top and bottom, except the AL East which is strong top to bottom except the Blue Jays, whose youth in a division that includes the Yanks, Orioles, Tigers, Indians, Red Sox and Negro Leaguers (each of whom finished above .500 in my last sim). You want a project...take the Padres, Mariners or combined expansion teams and try to make them winners.

As for my ratings, everything has been adjusted by me based on the era a player played in, much in the fashion of my TotalMinors work, running players against their respective league numbers for the time they played. This doesn't just mean batting and pitching numbers, but running speed and defensive ratings as well. These are then adjusted for the age the player will be based on my formulas. For example, while still effective, Cy Young has started the downside (he's 36). If you're running the Red Sox, do you keep him in your rotation, or do you deal him for help in other areas. Though younger, Christy Mathewson, Walter Johnson, Ty Cobb...all in their 30s. How do you handle them?

The only guys I didn't do a set age thing for were the Negro League/Japanese players. I wanted to give them a bit of luck of the draw, and the chance for a longer career. So they have random ages, none older than 30, most in their early 20s. Also, by no means are all the top Negro Leaguers included. In fact, many aren't, so they could be dispersed, with more being included for the draft. I took a top 5 of sorts (Josh Gibson, Oscar Charleston, Turkey Stearnes, Satchel Paige and Buck Leonard) and then filled the rest with random players from the top 10 lists by position in Bill James' Historical Abstract. Martin Dihigo, Heavy Johnson, Louis Santop, Bullet Joe Rogan...luck of the draw brought them in. But many others are outside...for now.

There will be updates soon after v1. More players for each of the teams, lots more Negro Leaguers and Japanese stars for the following year's draft (the expansion team could sure use a Saduharu Oh, Cristobal Torriente or Cool Papa Bell). I will be working on finances and contracts next to make sure younger guys don't become free agents too soon.

I'm releasing this version to get feedback, comments, questions, suggestions...I love what I'm seeing so far, but I have a great resource - all of you who play this game - to serve as beta testers for me to make it the best it can be.

I continue to get PMs and e-mails about this project, wondering if it will see daylight. This is the first step, but there's more coming. Hopefully this taste will be good enough for now. Your feedback is needed and most appreciated.

Thanks for the continued support.

For a glimpse at the rosters themselves, check out:

http://www.rosterdevelopmentgroup.co...ime/index.html

I made a few changes since that, but the gist is there.

GH

[JohnnyBemch]

I just checked out your Rosters. I can't wait to give them a try. I have wanted this type of set since I bought OOTP.

Thanks for your hard work!!

[Pete Grassi]

I plan on running a league with this file, check out the online leagues forum for more details on the league later tonight

[tim_uwrf]

http://rosterdevelopmentgroup.com/Al...prospects.html

personally, if you are done with the prospects, I don't like that

the pitchers are like 1-65 or something like that and that wouldn't be really how it is

another thing with prospects, I'd rather have Eddie Murray than Brian Giles, Greg Maddux over Kevin Brown - Giles and Brown aren't the best top prospects for hitters in pitchers, imo

[GForce22]

Originally posted by tim_uwrf
http://rosterdevelopmentgroup.com/Al...prospects.html

personally, if you are done with the prospects, I don't like that

the pitchers are like 1-65 or something like that and that wouldn't be really how it is

another thing with prospects, I'd rather have Eddie Murray than Brian Giles, Greg Maddux over Kevin Brown - Giles and Brown aren't the best top prospects for hitters in pitchers, imo

Remember that the 100 prospects list has pretty much been torn to shreds on this board. It's essentially useless.

As an aside, though:

Eddie Murray: avg OPS+ 129 peak 159
Brian Giles: avg OPS+ 150 peak 173

Greg Maddux: avg ERA+ 143 peak 273
Kevin Brown: avg ERA+ 131 peak 214

You're absolutely correct that Giles and Brown shouldn't be, and aren't, the top prospects in the set. I promise that I did not rate Chuck Finley better than Randy Johnson or Nolan Ryan

GH

[GForce22]

Quick update:

I am fixing the experiences using Pierre's editor. This will make auto-assigned contracts more realistic, affecting salaries (obviously). Also, with experiences for all set to 0, it means even the older players in the league are at least arbitration eligible, so the odds of them getting held onto are a bit better.

Catcher passed ball ratings have been adjusted (thanks to a long-ago post from Eugene Church I fortunately remembered).

The player heights have also been corrected (obviously minor, but the Excel import screws up the height so it needs to be fixed each time...pretty quick and painless).

I'm redoing my Web site a bit (believe me, nothing fancy...I'm a novice at that stuff) and hope to roll out a slightly new, better organized look within the next couple of days along with the v1 release. Should be Friday at the latest, but there's a chance it could be Wednesday or Thursday. Depends how much I get done and little things I see before then.

Also, I incorrectly spoke earlier...Saduharu Oh WAS one of the Japanese guys taken from the luck of the draw method for Washington's franchise...it'll be interesting to see if the team holds onto him or Buck Leonard...or both.

GH

[Dagrims]

Nice work on the roster set - it's evident the amount of time that was put into them. One quick question, though: is Babe Ruth really supposed to be a 28 in homers?

[GForce22]

Originally posted by Dagrims
Nice work on the roster set - it's evident the amount of time that was put into them. One quick question, though: is Babe Ruth really supposed to be a 28 in homers?

First, thanks for the compliment.

Second, relating to Ruth...it kind of shows the dominance he really had. I did this whole project with "80s Baseball" as the core, meaning every player was basically rated against their competition in the era they played in. And, whatever degree better/worse than the competition they were in the respective categories in the era they played, they were created to be that degree better (before the age impact I've mentioned) in the category than the average 80's figure in that category.

Ruth, based on his percentage better than the competition in his ERA, would have hit 111 homers on 80s terms...that gives you an idea of just how incredible he was. People can talk about Aaron or Bonds, but neither even remotely holds a candle to Ruth.

I calmed that figure down a bit in his ratings, but Ruth still projects to hit 60-80 homers. The man was just amazing.

GH

[Karros270]

Imagine if there had been steroids in Ruth's day. Hell, imagine if Ruth had ever been on any type of conditioning program. It's hard to imagine him being even better.

[Crapshoot]

No it isn't- Ruth was bloody dominant, but Bonds has been just as dominant relevant to his league (OPS+ of 275 in 2002 and 265 in 2001 was higher than anything Bonds had). RUth was an amazing HR hitter, and quite possibly the greatest ever- but the dominance was similar to what Bonds is doing now.

[Crapshoot]

btw, G- are you utilizing the triples rating at all ? Im curious, if only because it was far more prevalent in the 20's then in the 80's, but in a career based setting, Markus has mentioned it means very little.