Why does David Eckstein still have a job?

[rem]

Originally Posted by Smoothie7745

So a 4-time gold glover who is the only active player with 300 doubles, 200 HR, and 100 triples

He is also the only active player who's name is spelled "S-t-e-v-e F-i-n-e-l-y" which is just about as relevant.

46 active players have at least 600 Extra Base Hits.

[Smoothie7745]

Erstad is nothing offensively or defensively compared to Finley, as he's one of the best in the business, STILL, at the ripe old age of 40. I'd take him *DEFENSIVELY* over most any CF...Jim Edmonds, for instance. Give me a guy who can get to a ball on his feet rather than ALWAYS having to dive and always, 100% of the time, takes good routes to the ball, as opposed to Edmonds, who botches the route of, on average, one play per game. Edmonds is a better hitter and gets more appreciation from most baseball fans and even the people who pick Gold Gloves because he's more flashy (since he can't get to the ball on his feet), so he's won two more gold gloves than Finley. Gold Gloves are a joke, anyways.

[Smoothie7745]

Originally Posted by remangiii

He is also the only active player who's name is spelled "S-t-e-v-e F-i-n-e-l-y" which is just about as relevant.

46 active players have at least 600 Extra Base Hits.

With 4 gold gloves at CF and still playing the same quality defense who were ALSO FAs last year?

[mlyons]

Originally Posted by remangiii

He is also the only active player who's name is spelled "S-t-e-v-e F-i-n-e-l-y"

Ouch. I think someone just P\/\/N3D himself.

[Smoothie7745]

Originally Posted by mlyons

Ouch. I think someone just P\/\/N3D himself.

more acronyms I don't know...

[Smoothie7745]

Originally Posted by Smoothie7745

Erstad is nothing offensively or defensively compared to Finley, as he's one of the best in the business, STILL, at the ripe old age of 40. I'd take him *DEFENSIVELY* over most any CF...Jim Edmonds, for instance. Give me a guy who can get to a ball on his feet rather than ALWAYS having to dive and always, 100% of the time, takes good routes to the ball, as opposed to Edmonds, who botches the route of, on average, one play per game. Edmonds is a better hitter and gets more appreciation from most baseball fans and even the people who pick Gold Gloves because he's more flashy (since he can't get to the ball on his feet), so he's won two more gold gloves than Finley. Gold Gloves are a joke, anyways.

I meant one of the best in the business on DEFENSE for Finley...not offense. He's an adequate offensive outfielder but certainly no Vlad Guerrero or Garret Anderson...he sure is a lot better than Erstad, though.

[rem]

Originally Posted by mlyons

Ouch. I think someone just P\/\/N3D himself.

eek!

[bulldog55]

Originally Posted by remangiii

eek!

Too busy sabotaging the Expimps to notice his spelling.

[Eckstein 4 Prez]

Originally Posted by Smoothie7745

I meant one of the best in the business on DEFENSE for Finley...not offense. He's an adequate offensive outfielder but certainly no Vlad Guerrero or Garret Anderson...he sure is a lot better than Erstad, though.

He's better now. I'm not sure how long he can hold up before he drops off the cliff. Right now he's hitting under .200 (although he did win the game last night by hitting a home run about 30 yards from where I was sitting). Now, apparently he's always been a slow starter - but one of these years the slow start is going to turn into the over-the-hill season. I'm hoping they get one good year out of him - two seems to be pushing it.

[Smoothie7745]

Originally Posted by Eckstein 4 Prez

He's better now. I'm not sure how long he can hold up before he drops off the cliff. Right now he's hitting under .200 (although he did win the game last night by hitting a home run about 30 yards from where I was sitting). Now, apparently he's always been a slow starter - but one of these years the slow start is going to turn into the over-the-hill season. I'm hoping they get one good year out of him - two seems to be pushing it.

You're right in all of that, for sure. He's always a slow starter (and ALWAYS huge in the second half) whereas guys like Anderson are older and more prone to injury the longer they go in the season and could use a hot bat like Finley's and is DEFINITELY not going to be a good solution, no matter how good his D is, after 2006....

but for now, I still say he's a good fit.

[Jason Moyer]

Originally Posted by Smoothie7745

Because there's no doubt Finley can still play RIGHT NOW, which is where the Angels are clearly focused, trying to get to the big dance...

RIGHT NOW Finley is hitting .176/.269/.353. I'd wager there's at least a smidgen of doubt.

[Eckstein 4 Prez]

Originally Posted by Jason Moyer

RIGHT NOW Finley is hitting .176/.269/.353. I'd wager there's at least a smidgen of doubt.

Yeah, I know I've got several doubts.

That said, I do think it was a decent signing for this year. Next year they'll need to find a place for Kotchman (dear God, PLEASE don't let Scioscia cling any longer to some misguided notion of Erstad as a first baseman), so hopefully there won't be such a need for Finley. As a one-year solution the Finley signing was not bad, especially given the fact that the Angels are willing to spend the money on a gamble like this.

[Cyclone792]

Originally Posted by Eckstein 4 Prez

Yeah, I know I've got several doubts.

That said, I do think it was a decent signing for this year. Next year they'll need to find a place for Kotchman (dear God, PLEASE don't let Scioscia cling any longer to some misguided notion of Erstad as a first baseman), so hopefully there won't be such a need for Finley. As a one-year solution the Finley signing was not bad, especially given the fact that the Angels are willing to spend the money on a gamble like this.

Yea, Erstard is a quality first baseman just like Danny Graves is a quality closer! Erstad had that fluke phenomenal season in 2000, everybody thought he was actually good and then the Angels got suckered into a bad investment. If Finley can snap out of his funk and put up that 110 OPS+ and play solid defense, he'll be worth it for this season, but I have a feeling this time next season you'll be wishing he wasn't around.

[Smoothie7745]

Originally Posted by Jason Moyer

RIGHT NOW Finley is hitting .176/.269/.353. I'd wager there's at least a smidgen of doubt.

As we've already discussed, Finley started slowly every other year in his career and there's no reason to expect anything different this year than what he's produced over the years: gold glove defense, average power, a little below average batting average, some RBIs, some leadership, and a hot second half of the season...just like he has every other season in his career. He'll help the Halos this season. Any discussions of Erstad being worth anything more than a utility/pinch hit role need to stop, the man is trash, as a player. He, himself, is what, 35? And prone as hell? He also doesn't have the speed he once had and is just too old to go flying into walls anymore. He's significantly worse than Finley in every aspect...so if Erstad is in their plans at all beyond this season, the Angels need some SERIOUS help. And I also think Kotchman should be starting now at first...if nothing else, he's got good defense.

[Eckstein 4 Prez]

Originally Posted by Smoothie7745

I also think Kotchman should be starting now at first...if nothing else, he's got good defense.

First off, I agree with you on this.

Originally Posted by Smoothie7745

There's no reason to expect anything different this year than what [Finley]'s produced over the years

Sure there is. The guy's 40 years old.

Originally Posted by Smoothie7745

[Erstad] himself is what, 35? And prone as hell? He also doesn't have the speed he once had and is just too old to go flying into walls anymore.

Leaving aside the injury-proneness, which could indeed be true, Erstad is 30. He's nine years and three months younger than Finley. While I agree that Erstad isn't the greatest, all of the arguments you used against him could just as easily apply to Finley. My argument isn't that Erstad is great or that Finley sucks - it's that Finley is due to drop off the cliff any time. It could be this year, it could be next year - there's even a small chance it won't be for 2-3 years. But it's coming soon.

[Luis_Rivera]

Originally Posted by Smoothie7745

He's always a slow starter (and ALWAYS huge in the second half)

Better re-think your sources...

Steve Finley from 2002-2005:

Pre ASB: .293/.367/.516
Post ASB: .266/.337/.473

...and his OPS from 2002-2005 by month:

April: .756
May: .957
June: .962
July: .757
August: .836
September: .812

[swampdragon]

Eckstein's an average shortstop. There's value in being reliably average, or even a little below, when you've got a team as good as St. Louis and that's your weak spot. Sure, he's fortunate to be the Cardinal shortstop instead of the Pirate shortstop, but if he's the #16 SS and there are 30 major league teams, then he's providing value. He doesn't have to be an All-Star to keep his job.

[enuttage]

Originally Posted by swampdragon

but if he's the #16 SS and there are 30 major league teams, then he's providing value. He doesn't have to be an All-Star to keep his job.

Is he really the #16 SS? He certainly isn't offensively.

[Luis_Rivera]

Originally Posted by enuttage

Is he really the #16 SS? He certainly isn't offensively.

Last year he was 18th or 19th by VORP.

[streetballer67]

Originally Posted by swampdragon

then he's providing value.

This is the key right here. There are plenty of guys that aren't really going to be All-Stars but still be a valuable contributor.