I cant stand Billy Beane - Page 6

dougaiton · 08-04-2003, 11:37 AM

Why does everybody say that Beane's right to not draft HS guys?

Can anyone tell me the colleges of Tejada and Chavez!!!
And does no-one else find his comments about Latin guys being unreliable verging on racist (its not their fault they can't go to college)?

And he wanted to sign Ben Sheets, but had to settle for Zito instead?

Ah well...he's still done a damn good job, but don't beleive ALL the hype.

brimick78 · 08-04-2003, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dougaiton
Why does everybody say that Beane's right to not draft HS guys?

Can anyone tell me the colleges of Tejada and Chavez!!!
And does no-one else find his comments about Latin guys being unreliable verging on racist (its not their fault they can't go to college)?

And he wanted to sign Ben Sheets, but had to settle for Zito instead?

Ah well...he's still done a damn good job, but don't beleive ALL the hype.

Tejeda is a career .324 OBP guy. This about 16 points below what Beane is looking. I don't think Tejeda really fits into his stragedy.

Chavez is a career .344 OBP guy he will eventually be harder to replace than Tejeda.

It's not like Tejeda is the great player that everyone wants to make him out to be, it's just that offensively speaking he always seems to be in the right place at the right time. But he's NOT someone I think Beane is particularly fond of.

Crapshoot · 08-04-2003, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dougaiton
Why does everybody say that Beane's right to not draft HS guys?

Can anyone tell me the colleges of Tejada and Chavez!!!
And does no-one else find his comments about Latin guys being unreliable verging on racist (its not their fault they can't go to college)?

And he wanted to sign Ben Sheets, but had to settle for Zito instead?

Ah well...he's still done a damn good job, but don't beleive ALL the hype.

Sigh..*- the emphasis is on not drafting high school pitchers, because the flameout rate is high - and that makes sense.
also, get your facts straight- it wasn't Ben Sheets, it was Kyle Snyder- Sheets went the pick after Zito.

There's nothing racist about it- he wants college guys. If McDonalds says they want guys who speak English, are they racist ? No- its a ridiculous assertion.

He's the best Gm in baseball- believe the hype.

dougaiton · 08-04-2003, 05:31 PM

Yeah, I was just playing devil's advocate a bit, but I still think that with the discrimination laws the way they are, then Beane could face some problems if baseball was a normal business (which, for sure, it is not):
a) Latin players do not have a chance to attend college in the United States due to immigration, different language etc.
b) Beane, as the head personel guy for a multi-million pound corporation, says he will not sign Latin guys because they have not gone to college, even though college is not a prerequisite for participation in the sport.

I'm not saying it's a violation of any rule or anything, nor that it is wrong, just that under normal employment laws (at least in Britain), it would be illegal to OPENLY STATE (which Beane has done) that he would not consider them.

the McDonalds example doesn't really work - since when has going to college been a prerequisite for working in baseball? Ask Ichiro or Sasaki. The only prerequisite for baseball is the ability to play (in McDonalds, and this is dicey, English may be important), which no-one will dispute Latin players can. The issue here is should an organisation state they will not sign playes solely because they weren't able to take an advantage of an opportunity offered to American kids.

As I say, I'm playing devil's advocate here, and I don't think baseball can or should work like this. I just wonder if the Cubs didn't draft white guys (because they can't play in the heat) what our reaction would be?

EDIT: couple of errors.
Don't flame me for this, I'm just wondering what others views are - seems to me that if a Latin player could prove he wasn't drafted by the As because of college non- eligibilty (and this would never happen) then he'd have a fair chance of suing and winning. And please note that the emphasios is not on the practice but on the fact that the As as an organisation have stated this is their policy.

brimick78 · 08-04-2003, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dougaiton
Yeah, I was just playing devil's advocate a bit, but I still think that with the discrimination laws the way they are, then Beane could face some problems if baseball was a normal business (which, for sure, it is not):
a) Latin players do not have a chance to attend college in the United States due to immigration, different language etc.
b) Beane, as the head personel guy for a multi-million pound corporation, says he will not sign Latin guys because they have not gone to college, even though college is not a prerequisite for participation in the sport.

I'm not saying it's a violation of any rule or anything, nor that it is wrong, just that under normal employment laws (at least in Britain), it would be illegal to OPENLY STATE (which Beane has done) that he would not consider them.

the McDonalds example doesn't really work - since when has going to college been a prerequisite for working in baseball? Ask Ichiro or Sasaki. The only prerequisite for baseball is the ability to play (in McDonalds, and this is dicey, English may be important), which no-one will dispute Latin players can. The issue here is should an organisation state they will not sign playes solely because they weren't able to take an advantage of an opportunity offered to American kids.

As I say, I'm playing devil's advocate here, and I don't think baseball can or should work like this. I just wonder if the Cubs didn't draft white guys (because they can't play in the heat) what our reaction would be?

EDIT: couple of errors.
Don't flame me for this, I'm just wondering what others views are - seems to me that if a Latin player could prove he wasn't drafted by the As because of college non- eligibilty (and this would never happen) then he'd have a fair chance of suing and winning. And please note that the emphasios is not on the practice but on the fact that the As as an organisation have stated this is their policy.

The problem here is that the A's are a private organization they have the right to make it a prerequisite to have attended college at some point.

As far as Tejeda and Chavez go the policy is not retroactive meaning they can hold onto whatever employees who were already employed before the policy was implemented.

dougaiton · 08-04-2003, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by brimick78
The problem here is that the A's are a private organization they have the right to make it a prerequisite to have attended college at some point.

Your quite right, and that's probably the answer to the potential dilemma!

Spielman · 08-04-2003, 08:08 PM

-Spielman

tsq_bone · 08-05-2003, 12:54 AM

And it's not like they don't draft high school players either. Usually, about 1/5th of their drafts are high school players, if I recall correctly.

Specs · 08-05-2003, 12:55 AM

Yes, but usually 1/2 of all draft picks are high schoolers -- maybe even more.

dougaiton · 08-05-2003, 03:47 AM

The other thing I thought about was that as Latin players do not have 'work permits' until they are signed, they aren't actually US residents, so employment laws won't apply to them.

Ah well, there we go, another case solved...

08-04-2003, 11:37 AM	#101
dougaiton Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Location: Posts: 3,414	Why does everybody say that Beane's right to not draft HS guys? Can anyone tell me the colleges of Tejada and Chavez!!! And does no-one else find his comments about Latin guys being unreliable verging on racist (its not their fault they can't go to college)? And he wanted to sign Ben Sheets, but had to settle for Zito instead? Ah well...he's still done a damn good job, but don't beleive ALL the hype. __________________ tThis shower of clowns My park-adjusted, historically split Born in '69 league file! (also at Joe's wonderful site +BBSC)

08-04-2003, 05:31 PM	#104
dougaiton Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Location: Posts: 3,414	Yeah, I was just playing devil's advocate a bit, but I still think that with the discrimination laws the way they are, then Beane could face some problems if baseball was a normal business (which, for sure, it is not): a) Latin players do not have a chance to attend college in the United States due to immigration, different language etc. b) Beane, as the head personel guy for a multi-million pound corporation, says he will not sign Latin guys because they have not gone to college, even though college is not a prerequisite for participation in the sport. I'm not saying it's a violation of any rule or anything, nor that it is wrong, just that under normal employment laws (at least in Britain), it would be illegal to OPENLY STATE (which Beane has done) that he would not consider them. the McDonalds example doesn't really work - since when has going to college been a prerequisite for working in baseball? Ask Ichiro or Sasaki. The only prerequisite for baseball is the ability to play (in McDonalds, and this is dicey, English may be important), which no-one will dispute Latin players can. The issue here is should an organisation state they will not sign playes solely because they weren't able to take an advantage of an opportunity offered to American kids. As I say, I'm playing devil's advocate here, and I don't think baseball can or should work like this. I just wonder if the Cubs didn't draft white guys (because they can't play in the heat) what our reaction would be? EDIT: couple of errors. Don't flame me for this, I'm just wondering what others views are - seems to me that if a Latin player could prove he wasn't drafted by the As because of college non- eligibilty (and this would never happen) then he'd have a fair chance of suing and winning. And please note that the emphasios is not on the practice but on the fact that the As as an organisation have stated this is their policy. __________________ tThis shower of clowns My park-adjusted, historically split Born in '69 league file! (also at Joe's wonderful site +BBSC) Last edited by dougaiton; 08-04-2003 at 05:36 PM.

08-05-2003, 03:47 AM	#110
dougaiton Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Location: Posts: 3,414	The other thing I thought about was that as Latin players do not have 'work permits' until they are signed, they aren't actually US residents, so employment laws won't apply to them. Ah well, there we go, another case solved... __________________ tThis shower of clowns My park-adjusted, historically split Born in '69 league file! (also at Joe's wonderful site +BBSC)

08-04-2003, 08:08 PM	#107
Spielman All Star Starter Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: South Carolina Posts: 1,668	-Spielman

08-05-2003, 12:54 AM	#108
tsq_bone Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 49	And it's not like they don't draft high school players either. Usually, about 1/5th of their drafts are high school players, if I recall correctly.