International League(s) Announcement

[Bobfather]

She's gone (she's gone), oh, I, oh, I
I better learn how to face it
She's gone (she's gone), oh, I, oh, I
I'd pay the devil to replace her
She's gone (she's gone), oh, I

[wbcfan]

So no players from the Japanese league are in the game?

[Carplos]

Originally Posted by wbcfan

So no players from the Japanese league are in the game?

No. No non-licensed leagues or their players are in the standard game.

[PSUColonel]

So, is there a reason the fictional international league templates have been removed? This game is seriously just a shell of what it was. Why would anyone even want to use the KBO without the other leagues? Why do they bother including a WBC tournament when there are two leagues included from the world of baseball? I mean seriously, there are no mods, there is no organization, and the mod community is simply more concerned with graphics these days instead of ways to expand the detail level of leagues.

I thought this was all supposed to be covered by modems and it was said there would still be international templates...which is now obviously no longer the case.

[ChrisJNelson]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

So, is there a reason the fictional international league templates have been removed? This game is seriously just a shell of what it was. Why would anyone even want to use the KBO without the other leagues? Why do they bother including a WBC tournament when there are two leagues included from the world of baseball? I mean seriously, there are no mods, there is no organization, and the mod community is simply more concerned with graphics these days instead of ways to expand the detail level of leagues.

I thought this was all supposed to be covered by modems and it was said there would still be international templates...which is now obviously no longer the case.

I'm making my own template with the world leagues I like (Japan, China, Australia, Mexico, Cuba) and making sure I've got all the logos/jerseys/caps named properly. Not sure what I will do about the players since it's an export of OOTP23 though--it means potentially there could be duplicate players (ex. a Japan league player from OOTP23 who is now in MLB) and everyone would be a year younger than they should be. Maybe scrambling all names would be best solution. I just want the leagues to EXIST in my modern saves and I could live without the actual current players, as much as that sucks.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by ChrisJNelson

I'm making my own template with the world leagues I like (Japan, China, Australia, Mexico, Cuba) and making sure I've got all the logos/jerseys/caps named properly. Not sure what I will do about the players since it's an export of OOTP23 though--it means potentially there could be duplicate players (ex. a Japan league player from OOTP23 who is now in MLB) and everyone would be a year younger than they should be. Maybe scrambling all names would be best solution. I just want the leagues to EXIST in my modern saves and I could live without the actual current players, as much as that sucks.

Yea...I know I can also...but I really don't want to do this every time I want to start a new save for testing purposes...or when patches come out...and it certainly just cuts into the validity of the leagues' because settings change all of the time via patches, and I just don't want to go through this crap all of the time anymore. I want to PLAY THE GAME....which is what makes FM just so much more appealing. It has a large/full world setup, and I don't have to jump through a thousand hoops to get started/going.

It's a shame things have come to this. I just don't want to play around with a jigsaw puzzle/erector set/lego set/model train set (take your pick) anymore. Just tired of it. I want the parts pre-resembled, click a few buttons, and you're ready to start being a GM in a larger world where you are just a piece of that fully functioning world that takes on a life of it's own. It's just not there anymore.

EDIT: No offer of the partner leagues as a fictional setup option.

[ChrisJNelson]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

Yea...I know I can also...but I really don't want to do this every time I want to start a new save for testing purposes...or when patches come out...and it certainly just cuts into the validity of the leagues' because settings change all of the time via patches, and I just don't want to go through this crap all of the time anymore. I want to PLAY THE GAME....which is what makes FM just so much more appealing. It has a large/full world setup, and I don't have to jump through a thousand hoops to get started/going.

It's a shame things have come to this. I just don't want to play around with a jigsaw puzzle/erector set/lego set/model train set (take your pick) anymore. Just tired of it. I want the parts pre-resembled, click a few buttons, and you're ready to start being a GM in a larger world where you are just a piece of that fully functioning world that takes on a life of it's own. It's just not there anymore.

Oh I'm with you 100%. It sucks. I only play "one way" so once I get this settled, I *think* it'll be an easy import to any future save I do. But it's obviously not going to satisfy everyone and the variety of ways people wanna play.

[Charlie Hough]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I want to PLAY THE GAME....which is what makes FM just so much more appealing. It has a large/full world setup, and I don't have to jump through a thousand hoops to get started/going.

I certainly feel everyone's pain and have been working on creating my own fictional Japanese league, but licensing and league exclusion issues are certainly not unique to OOTP. They're just as much a problem in FM, depending on what you're looking to do.

If you want the J-League system in FM, you have to jump through the same hoops. If you want to manage in any other league that isn't already licensed and included in the game, it's the same thing. If you want to have certain lower leagues that aren't included, and you want real players and staff from those leagues, it's the same problem. You have to track down the right mods and files, and you have to work around the same issues.

Granted, the situation is arguably worse in OOTP in some ways, but FM has its own issues, and licensing and inclusion of the J-Leagues as well as German national team players have both been issues to varying degrees for many years.

[PSUColonel]

I just want real world working league structures with all of the correct settings for stats as well as the closest to actual rules as possible…I am not so much concerned with real players the way many others are. What I want though is now an extre challenge when you think of the number of leagues.

[OutS|der]

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

I certainly feel everyone's pain and have been working on creating my own fictional Japanese league, but licensing and league exclusion issues are certainly not unique to OOTP. They're just as much a problem in FM, depending on what you're looking to do.

If you want the J-League system in FM, you have to jump through the same hoops. If you want to manage in any other league that isn't already licensed and included in the game, it's the same thing. If you want to have certain lower leagues that aren't included, and you want real players and staff from those leagues, it's the same problem. You have to track down the right mods and files, and you have to work around the same issues.

Granted, the situation is arguably worse in OOTP in some ways, but FM has its own issues, and licensing and inclusion of the J-Leagues as well as German national team players have both been issues to varying degrees for many years.

The difference is in FM you'll find multiple mods that offer everything the bade game is lacking, here not so much.
Good luck finding any mod on here that doesn't include the MLB league as well. Meaning you can't import it into your game if it has the MLB in it so your left to try and fix it yourself.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by OutS|der

The difference is in FM you'll find multiple mods that offer everything the bade game is lacking, here not so much.
Good luck finding any mod on here that doesn't include the MLB league as well. Meaning you can't import it into your game if it has the MLB in it so your left to try and fix it yourself.

This is true but, I'd submit modded leagues aren't available because they weren't needed. Now that they are it may take some time before someone creates any, they're not going to appear over night. Nothing is stopping anyone here from making a mod and sharing it with others. The tools are provided in OOTP to do just that.

"But it's not easy to find all of the information and rate the league." IDK but if the league was in v23 or before maybe start there? Open the game, get out your phone and take pictures of the settings for rules, structure, teams, LT, finances, etc. etc. etc. Open v24, create the league(s), and start typing in the settings? Try getting a group of volunteers involved with each taking one of the leagues? Collaborative efforts like this have been working for years with many sports titles, from rosters to player gear. If a group is simply copying information then nothing comes down to how each individual thinks something should be rated or done. IE any difference of opinion can be edited in individual leagues once they're on someone's machine.

If one wants it bad enough it's worth the time to do. And when it's done, it can be shared and maintained year to year with rule changes etc. If I had to have these leagues to enjoy my game I would start here.

In regard to games that all contain MLB. I'm not an expert but could one take a mod that has MLB, start a game with it, delete MLB, and then save as template keeping only the leagues they want? Or is there some reason this won't work? I never have messed with this part of OOTP so honestly don't know.

[PSUColonel]

Well, I have been working on a full world setup that I thought was going well, but not so much now. I am afraid I am going to have to likely halt my work. I was unaware of some of the "under the hood" changes OOTP has made between version 23 & version 24...and now I can't just plug in the old modifiers and expect similar results.

This is what I was speaking to when I said it would be impossible to maintain these leagues without the support of the development team. I do not have the time or patience to do endless testing on all of this...and because I want it done correctly, I will just simply not do it at all.

The starting Pitching fatigue issue is what alerted me to the vast differences between the two versions. For example....in OOTP 23 the pitcher fatigue setting is very low (for MLB) in OOTP24 its normal. Not to mention that all of the modifier numbers are different as well. Now, that's all well and fine for the MLB because OOTPD still supports it...but for leagues in Japan, or other international leagues this is a major issue as I am sure you can see. It's not as simple as just "copy & paste" from 23 to 24 anymore.

SO...YET again I have wasted hours and hours on this crap trying to improve the OOTP experience...but without some sort of guidance or a template that is relevant for OOTP 24, it's just a waste.

Even if I created each league from scratch and built each one individually (again I just don't have the time or patience for a massive undertaking like this) the numbers would be probably better because it was created by OOTP 24, but still likely not anywhere near league specific perfection.

[Charlie Hough]

Originally Posted by OutS|der

The difference is in FM you'll find multiple mods that offer everything the bade game is lacking, here not so much.

Yes, but those mods are still generally hosted elsewhere, and not all of them have been available from links in the SI forums over the years. It's been a long while since I've played FM, but I've had to search for FM mods on other websites many times. You had to do some work to get certain real players and leagues to appear in your game or to unlock additional lower leagues.

In OOTP's case, mods have always been linked from these forums, but since many of them have involved unlicensed leagues, those links have been removed. But the threads still exist, and you can potentially contact the creators to see if they're working on something for the future. For mods that can't be linked here, things may need to work the way they have with FM for 20 years.

[Charlie Hough]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

Well, I have been working on a full world setup that I thought was going well, but not so much now. I am afraid I am going to have to likely halt my work.

Something like this should probably be a team effort. Maybe you can team up with the creator of the new fictional Japanese league mod and some of the other world league experts and modders to share some of the workload.

It seems theoretically possibly that OOTP Developments will eventually release templates for fictional versions of unlicensed leagues. They existed previously. I think the issue is that the need to remove unlicensed leagues came about during the late stages of development and beta testing for OOTP 24. There probably hasn't been time to figure out templates or whether the developers can provide and support an alternative solution. It's probably something that won't get attention until after OOTP 24 reaches a very stable state and most bug fixes are complete.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

Yes, but those mods are still generally hosted elsewhere, and not all of them have been available from links in the SI forums over the years. It's been a long while since I've played FM, but I've had to search for FM mods on other websites many times. You had to do some work to get certain real players and leagues to appear in your game or to unlock additional lower leagues.

In OOTP's case, mods have always been linked from these forums, but since many of them have involved unlicensed leagues, those links have been removed. But the threads still exist, and you can potentially contact the creators to see if they're working on something for the future. For mods that can't be linked here, things may need to work the way they have with FM for 20 years.

This is a bit of what I was trying to argue before the release of OOTP 24...that there really are no OOTP "fan sites” dedicated to hosting a plethora of mods such as uniforms, logos, league configurations, templates, QuickStarts etc....

I feel without something along these lines...we are essentially going to just have to accept what the developers give us...which now a days is far more sparce than it ever was.

I also see an issue with a lot of the people around here who's attitude is: "I am just lucky to have OOTP because if I didn't I'd still be rolling dice and using playing cards". Unfortunately this attitude isn't really helping the matter either.

But at the end of the day, it is what it is. I have been spending a lot more time on FM lately, as I feel it's just a far more detailed sim, and it provides the world experience I am looking for. Where I am just a cog in that world as it simulates around my club. The MLS does make it pretty challenging also due to all of the rules and restrictions...which I actually enjoy delving into...you can't just spend money and win...you have to negotiate the salary cap while still keeping up a youth system and trying to find that extra player or two to put you over the top...lots of realism and fun IMO.

Anyway, I could always just play the MLB & partner leagues, and while I am sure they are jolly fun, it just pales in comparison to the depth FM now offers.

[snarls200]

Wy not use NexusMods?

[Charlie Hough]

Originally Posted by snarls200

Why not use NexusMods?

Once a particular license holder discovers that mods with its licensed content are being hosted there, I suspect that legal letters would quickly follow, and the mods would be removed rather quickly. But maybe it's an option.

[Cactusguy21]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I just want real world working league structures with all of the correct settings for stats as well as the closest to actual rules as possible…I am not so much concerned with real players the way many others are. What I want though is now an extre challenge when you think of the number of leagues.

This is my issue, I don't care about the real players, I care about the real league rules, schedules, and modifiers.

[oriole^]

I do care about the real players, even though I operate a fictional league within the world. I like to have the experience of scouting talent in Japan or Taiwan or such...and I really enjoyed the WBC this year and would love to be able to recreate it. That looks as if it is no longer possible.


I have to admit that I share the concerns of many of the posters here. I'm very disappointed with this version of the game. I understand the problems that have led to this, but ultimately, I'd like to play the game the way I want, and the flexibility and detail of OOTP was the reason I gravitated to it instead of Baseball Mogul.


It's worth an attempted fix. It seems that the other leagues - Honkbal Hoofdklasse, Mexican League, Cuban League, and so on - can be added back in directly. As for Japan, I'm fine if we add them as "Rippon Pro Baseball" with asterisks added at the beginning of each last name to confuse the algorithm, or something similar.


Incidentally, if you go to the link in my sig below, I have a forum where we can discuss things more freely.

[RubeBaker]

Originally Posted by oriole^

I do care about the real players, even though I operate a fictional league within the world. I like to have the experience of scouting talent in Japan or Taiwan or such...and I really enjoyed the WBC this year and would love to be able to recreate it. That looks as if it is no longer possible.


I have to admit that I share the concerns of many of the posters here. I'm very disappointed with this version of the game. I understand the problems that have led to this, but ultimately, I'd like to play the game the way I want, and the flexibility and detail of OOTP was the reason I gravitated to it instead of Baseball Mogul.


It's worth an attempted fix. It seems that the other leagues - Honkbal Hoofdklasse, Mexican League, Cuban League, and so on - can be added back in directly. As for Japan, I'm fine if we add them as "Rippon Pro Baseball" with asterisks added at the beginning of each last name to confuse the algorithm, or something similar.


Incidentally, if you go to the link in my sig below, I have a forum where we can discuss things more freely.

I get it. I do. But at this point, I'd say there's a better chance of me dating Jennifer Garner than the aforementioned league(s) coming back here anytime soon.

Be that as it may, OOTP is still the best game out there. Perfect? No. But who is in the gaming world? My prediction is that we will not see anything done this year. I'm optimistic that something could get done by the end of the year and before OOTP25. Next year will be the twenty-fifth anniversary of OOTP. That is huge.

I was watching Markus's body language and reading his recent posts. It's obvious to me that this whole ordeal has been very stressful on him and I'm sure other OOTP staff. These are good people. I understand the frustration many OOTP customers have. Believe me, I get it. But taking it out personally on the OOTP staff and customers is wrong.

Hey, at least we still have an OOTP game to play. Be thankful we have that.