Latest Info (3/28/20)

[Zeppelin462]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

I too complement Markus on what he has done with OOTP - he has shown that a small studio can be wildly successful in this genre but I don't think it would have happened without a community that was willing to get behind a game they felt had potential and do whatever they could to help make it better.

Anyhow the only reason I popped in to comment here was that while I certainly think very highly of Jim and consider him a friend, I am very happy with the development job Brooks has done at Wolverine. Every year his games get better and PF21 is going to be amazing! We're working with the new interface platform and it already is incredible. You mentioned roster management and I know for a fact that is an area Brooks has told me he is making adjustments on based on feedback. That's one thing we really try to focus on - if someone has constructive feedback we're happy to listen and see how we can make it better. That is how the basketball games have come so far and why the football games are on the same trajectory.

I know Jim will make a great game here with OOTP but I think that the DDSPF series shows tremendous improvement every year and PF21 is going to be fantastic. It won't be FOF - it's not meant to be - but I think there is room to have two great football sims especially if each has its own strengths. In fact if you have any feedback to make it better now is the time as we are in the midst of coding it. This may not be the most appropriate place for it but join our forums or slack channel and get your wants in while we can do something about them!

Gary, is there any plan of making modding a little easier for your football games? I feel like there is so much potential to enhance things like recruiting, on field simulation, and it feels like the code is fairly locked down. I absolutely love the progress you guys are making, I just think it could be taken to the next level by community modding and/or small paid updates throughout the year.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by Zeppelin462

Gary, is there any plan of making modding a little easier for your football games? I feel like there is so much potential to enhance things like recruiting, on field simulation, and it feels like the code is fairly locked down. I absolutely love the progress you guys are making, I just think it could be taken to the next level by community modding and/or small paid updates throughout the year.

If you have anything specific you would like to see and how you would like to see it done I will be glad to run it by Brooks and see if it can be done

[thefatcat]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

I too complement Markus on what he has done with OOTP - he has shown that a small studio can be wildly successful in this genre but I don't think it would have happened without a community that was willing to get behind a game they felt had potential and do whatever they could to help make it better.

Anyhow the only reason I popped in to comment here was that while I certainly think very highly of Jim and consider him a friend, I am very happy with the development job Brooks has done at Wolverine. Every year his games get better and PF21 is going to be amazing! We're working with the new interface platform and it already is incredible. You mentioned roster management and I know for a fact that is an area Brooks has told me he is making adjustments on based on feedback. That's one thing we really try to focus on - if someone has constructive feedback we're happy to listen and see how we can make it better. That is how the basketball games have come so far and why the football games are on the same trajectory.

I know Jim will make a great game here with OOTP but I think that the DDSPF series shows tremendous improvement every year and PF21 is going to be fantastic. It won't be FOF - it's not meant to be - but I think there is room to have two great football sims especially if each has its own strengths. In fact if you have any feedback to make it better now is the time as we are in the midst of coding it. This may not be the most appropriate place for it but join our forums or slack channel and get your wants in while we can do something about them!

I played this game and i play FOF and FOF is so far in front for me it's unreal. If i remember just two points i remember were you can't go out of bounds! Cap management is broken, so a QB costs the same to re-sign as any other position, sorry but that is so poor.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by thefatcat

I played this game and i play FOF and FOF is so far in front for me it's unreal. If i remember just two points i remember were you can't go out of bounds! Cap management is broken, so a QB costs the same to re-sign as any other position, sorry but that is so poor.

I can't speak to your comment on going out of bounds but I do know that the cap management does not work that way. There is a weight given to positions - maybe you played an earlier version or something like that.

[jbaumgardt1]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

I can't speak to your comment on going out of bounds but I do know that the cap management does not work that way. There is a weight given to positions - maybe you played an earlier version or something like that.

Players do run out of bounds in DDS. I've seen it happen many times. I would like to provide some feedback concerning the game's late game play calling logic. I know this is an area that has been worked a lot and I can see the improvements in the recent releases, but I still feel it could be a little better. Things such as fourth down field goal vs going for it decisions and knowing when to use timeouts or when to run out of bounds to stop the clock.

[jimmysthebestcop]

I do find it weird that American management dim games tend to focus on customization of everything instead of just directly simulating what is actually on the modern pro level. All of this extra work about creating historical it fictional scenarios.

That's why they will never be as deep as football manager or as fun/exciting as Motorsport manager.

Those are my now go to games for sports management. I need American pro games like that. If not I can just go to other non sports management/simulation/strategic games.

Are there any American sports sim games even close to football manager or Motorsport manager? If do let me know I would like to check them out.

Ootpb is the biggest or most well known American sports sim it is still not even close to being in those 2 aforementioned games worlds. Football manager is light years beyond ootp. While Motorsport manager is still much much better as a video game experience.

Ootp does a fantastic job of setting up scenarios and spitting out realistic results. But from a video game experience it is severely lacking. But I get the feeling of all American sports sims kind of just want to be result simulators. And not actual management simulation video games.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by jbaumgardt1

Players do run out of bounds in DDS. I've seen it happen many times. I would like to provide some feedback concerning the game's late game play calling logic. I know this is an area that has been worked a lot and I can see the improvements in the recent releases, but I still feel it could be a little better. Things such as fourth down field goal vs going for it decisions and knowing when to use timeouts or when to run out of bounds to stop the clock.

By all means DM me or post it on our forums - we would love to have your feedback especially with us deep into the code on 2021 now.

[james17]

Originally Posted by Scipio Africanus

All I know is I've been waiting for 20+ years for a game to fill the Front Page Sports Football void and I'll probably go to my grave still waiting. My experience on sports forums over the past two decades would indicate that tons of people want a pro football game that treats the off-the field and on-the-field game with equal importance but no developer wants to make a game like that.

IIRC the source code for FPS 98 is in the public domain but no developer has chosen to use it.

[jackstunt]

I will reiterate that I would contribute to a kickstarter for FOF and TCY 2. I would contribute and still pay full price for the game. My only request would be that Jim does a developer's diary or blog similar to what the folks who made TEW 2020 did.

I hope Jim and the OOTP people understand that businesses hire contractors all the time. And hiring someone from Upwork is not a knock to anyone its just good business practice.

[jimmysthebestcop]

Originally Posted by jackstunt

I will reiterate that I would contribute to a kickstarter for FOF and TCY 2. I would contribute and still pay full price for the game. My only request would be that Jim does a developer's diary or blog similar to what the folks who made TEW 2020 did.

I hope Jim and the OOTP people understand that businesses hire contractors all the time. And hiring someone from Upwork is not a knock to anyone its just good business practice.

All of the AAA studios have an insane number contractors part of all that crazy California rules about independent contractors. Since their business is game development and they are hiring 100's of game developers as contractors instead of as salary employees.

But my point is yeah take any of the big games, say like Red Dead Redemption 2, and the amount of independent contractors on the project is staggering. We are talking dozens and dozens if not hundreds.

[thefatcat]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

I can't speak to your comment on going out of bounds but I do know that the cap management does not work that way. There is a weight given to positions - maybe you played an earlier version or something like that.

Apoligies if that is the case!

[redfox000]

Originally Posted by james17

IIRC the source code for FPS 98 is in the public domain but no developer has chosen to use it.

Where at? I have searched the internet several times for the code and the best I ever found was a detailed explanation of how retirement works, which anyone who played could quickly figure out that once you move a player from a #1 position down to a lower position they would retire. As a programmer myself I was always interested in looking at the code. I assumed Sierra still had the rights to it even though they stopped the game in 2000.

[james17]

Originally Posted by redfox000

Where at? I have searched the internet several times for the code and the best I ever found was a detailed explanation of how retirement works, which anyone who played could quickly figure out that once you move a player from a #1 position down to a lower position they would retire. As a programmer myself I was always interested in looking at the code. I assumed Sierra still had the rights to it even though they stopped the game in 2000.

Yeah, I looked and don't see it either. This was a few years ago so maybe it got taken down. As for Sierra, I don't think they exist anymore do they?

[redfox000]

Originally Posted by james17

Yeah, I looked and don't see it either. This was a few years ago so maybe it got taken down. As for Sierra, I don't think they exist anymore do they?

I think they still do: https://www.sierragames.com/

[james17]

Originally Posted by redfox000

I think they still do: https://www.sierragames.com/

Interesting!

[jackstunt]

Originally Posted by jimmysthebestcop

All of the AAA studios have an insane number contractors part of all that crazy California rules about independent contractors. Since their business is game development and they are hiring 100's of game developers as contractors instead of as salary employees.

But my point is yeah take any of the big games, say like Red Dead Redemption 2, and the amount of independent contractors on the project is staggering. We are talking dozens and dozens if not hundreds.

I am not sure I am understanding your point. It seems to me that you agree with my position. Please correct me if I am wrong.

[jimmysthebestcop]

Originally Posted by jackstunt

I am not sure I am understanding your point. It seems to me that you agree with my position. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Oh I'm just stating that when done proper, Kickstarter is often a huge success for game studios. And the game industry as a whole hires a significant amount of independent contractors. Having a good PR firm and good publishers also help. And I am not really sure why it isn't a part of OOTP's strategic future.

Not just with FOF but I would love for a revolutionary next gen OOTPb to be kickstarted even if it meant that version was 2 to 3 years away. At least we would know it was coming and get regular updates on its progress. The up front money should allow for more staff in any configuration they wanted. So the yearly update of the current version shouldn't be effected but could be scaled down.

Without something like Kickstarter I just never see OOTPb ever becoming either as deep as Football Manager or as fun as Motorsport Manager. Not to mentioned as polished as either of those games. And Motorsport Manager is 4 years old!!!!!!!

In 4 years time OOTPb has basically remained exactly the same as a game play experience. It added perfect team and 3D but neither really change the overall game play experience.

[thefatcat]

Originally Posted by jimmysthebestcop

In 4 years time OOTPb has basically remained exactly the same as a game play experience. It added perfect team and 3D but neither really change the overall game play experience.

Come on be fair, they have managed to hang Jim out to dry in that time period as well.

[jackstunt]

Originally Posted by jimmysthebestcop

Oh I'm just stating that when done proper, Kickstarter is often a huge success for game studios. And the game industry as a whole hires a significant amount of independent contractors. Having a good PR firm and good publishers also help. And I am not really sure why it isn't a part of OOTP's strategic future.

Not just with FOF but I would love for a revolutionary next gen OOTPb to be kickstarted even if it meant that version was 2 to 3 years away. At least we would know it was coming and get regular updates on its progress. The up front money should allow for more staff in any configuration they wanted. So the yearly update of the current version shouldn't be effected but could be scaled down.

Without something like Kickstarter I just never see OOTPb ever becoming either as deep as Football Manager or as fun as Motorsport Manager. Not to mentioned as polished as either of those games. And Motorsport Manager is 4 years old!!!!!!!

In 4 years time OOTPb has basically remained exactly the same as a game play experience. It added perfect team and 3D but neither really change the overall game play experience.

I agree with you. I think it goes without saying that this could be an issue solved by having a kickstarter to hire someone to do the interface which from my understanding is the only thing that requires work. From there OOTP marketing should take over because I don't think their marketing team does any programming.

For the OOTP staff or Jim himself, I would gladly put up money and still buy the game at full price just for a developer's blog and the game's release.

[Antonin]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

...That's one thing we really try to focus on - if someone has constructive feedback we're happy to listen and see how we can make it better....
In fact if you have any feedback to make it better now is the time as we are in the midst of coding it. This may not be the most appropriate place for it but join our forums or slack channel and get your wants in while we can do something about them!

Hi Gary! You and Brooks have had plenty of feedback from me via PMs here and on the Wolverine forum. Thank you for listening.