Another small update - Page 6

numbuh48 · 09-06-2009, 10:14 PM

Mass select for OOTP 11.

BusterKing · 09-07-2009, 12:33 AM

What gets tiring for me to hear for every version is the announcement of the last patch. Like, ok boys, the game isn't working right but we are moving on anyways and we'll see you in the next version.

Why is it like this other then it's all in fact about the money.

But I keep on buying every version, since the very first release. No matter how much I hope one will get everything right... just maybe one time they will get it right.

Maybe it's time to look at the old unresolved issues that go on and on and fix them once and for all instead of just giving up on fixing them and ignoring them like they don't exist.

Would make a lot of us, all time supporters, very happy.

Matter2003 · 09-07-2009, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BusterKing

It has become an OOTP ritual to move on to a new version instead of fixing the present version to perfection.

It's all about money.

Actually I'd say its moreso about time. With only having very limited resources, it is much harder to work on patches and next years game at the same time. I am pretty happy with X for the most part, other than the extension issue...

Carplos · 09-07-2009, 01:08 AM

So you complain that it's all about money... then you KEEP BUYING EVERY VERSION.

Take a step back... look at the situation... DING DING DING, you're part of the problem you're whining about endlessly.

BusterKing · 09-07-2009, 02:35 AM

And your post is about what? Whining about my whining?

Get a grip, people have a right to their own opinions.

Muzamba · 09-07-2009, 04:08 AM

I've been resisting the temptation to start adding elements of my wishlist to this thread, as I'm trusting Markus/Steve to make good on the pledge to open up the discussion once the final patch for X is finished. (And I'm hoping this will entail more than just a new "Suggestions for the Next Version of OOTP" thread.

)

However, I'd like to at least get a few quick thoughts out there for now...

1. Definitely count me as being on board the "fix what still hasn't been fixed" bandwagon.

2. Unlike many, I'd actually prefer there to be less of an emphasis on tweaking the AI. I feel like OOTP is getting close to a point of diminishing returns in this area. Obviously, it's never gonna be perfect to everyone, so perhaps it's time to set it aside for now in favor of putting more effort into other areas of the game. Not to trivialize the opinions of those who still have issues with aspects of the AI, but it seems like there's always someone complaining that the AI made some ridiculous move or another. And maybe it did, but why keep tinkering with an aspect of the game that will never be perfect when there are so many other areas that need attention?

3. Please try to incorporate as many real-world (MLB) rules into OOTP as possible. I recognize that some would be difficult or even impossible to implement and may adversely affect the playability of the game, but there are still several common and important rules that aren't included in OOTP. Personally, I'd rather there at least be some attempt to work these into the game--even if they're overly simplified--than to ignore them completely.

4. I know I'm going against many "purists" on this one, but maybe consider focusing a little more on the peripheral aspects of the game. That is, add a little more--or at least allow us to have more control over the customization of--the outside world in OOTP. It's totally understandable that this facet of the game doesn't merit as much attention, as it doesn't directly involve the simulating or playing of games, but for some (maybe even many?) of us, it adds to the realism in our OOTP universe even more than a perfectly accurate game engine or other areas that seem to get the lion's share of attention during development.

5. PLEASE--no matter what--try to make as many aspects of OOTP EDITABLE and/or CUSTOMIZABLE as possible. And please try to streamline the process of editing and customizing, maybe by creating a uniform database structure that exclusively uses csv files that can be easily exported and re-imported into the game. It's so frustrating to spend countless hours setting up our fictional universes, only to find out certain things can't be edited, while others can't be imported or don't import correctly.

These are just my opinions, of course, and I have many other more detailed ideas and suggestions, but I'll save those for the appropriate time. Just please, PLEASE take the 5 points I mentioned above to heart. Regardless of what specific features and fixes ultimately make it into the next version, I will be happy if at least these general concepts are addressed.

spitfire · 09-07-2009, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muzamba

2. Unlike many, I'd actually prefer there to be less of an emphasis on tweaking the AI. I feel like OOTP is getting close to a point of diminishing returns in this area. Obviously, it's never gonna be perfect to everyone, so perhaps it's time to set it aside for now in favor of putting more effort into other areas of the game. Not to trivialize the opinions of those who still have issues with aspects of the AI, but it seems like there's always someone complaining that the AI made some ridiculous move or another. And maybe it did, but why keep tinkering with an aspect of the game that will never be perfect when there are so many other areas that need attention?

Can't agree with that one. There aren't very many things in our world that are perfect, but that doesn't mean we should stop trying to make them better. I put OOTP in the same category. The AI is never going to be perfect, but it can certainly be better than it is now in a number of areas. I don't see any reason why Markus should stop trying to make improvements in that aspect of the game, even if he never achieves "perfection" with the AI. I'd settle for "extrememly challenging", something one definitely can't say about the current AI as people continue to implement house rules to make the game more difficult in solo play.

Afino · 09-07-2009, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spitfire

Can't agree with that one. There aren't very many things in our world that are perfect, but that doesn't mean we should stop trying to make them better. I put OOTP in the same category. The AI is never going to be perfect, but it can certainly be better than it is now in a number of areas. I don't see any reason why Markus should stop trying to make improvements in that aspect of the game, even if he never achieves "perfection" with the AI. I'd settle for "extrememly challenging", something one definitely can't say about the current AI as people continue to implement house rules to make the game more difficult in solo play.

The day Markus achieves "perfection" with the AI is the day the world ends. Literally. Because when AI matches human brain power, they will TAKE OVER THE WORLD!!1!!1!one!11

Kidding aside, I'd settle for improvements just in drafting alone.

spitfire · 09-07-2009, 01:50 PM

I bet Markus wouldn't mind if OOTP took over the world!!!!

Cryomaniac · 09-07-2009, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Afino

The day Markus achieves "perfection" with the AI is the day the world ends. Literally. Because when AI matches human brain power, they will TAKE OVER THE WORLD!!1!!1!one!11

Kidding aside, I'd settle for improvements just in drafting alone.

lol. I think one day it will be possible to have AI that is as good as pro baseball managers, football coaches, etc.

sosasoser · 09-07-2009, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

lol. I think one day it will be possible to have AI that is as good as pro baseball managers, football coaches, etc.

Well OOTP's AI is already better than the people who have been running the Royals for the last 15 years, but that's not saying much.

Cryomaniac · 09-07-2009, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sosasoser

Well OOTP's AI is already better than the people who have been running the Royals for the last 15 years, but that's not saying much.

Lol.

numbuh48 · 09-07-2009, 04:05 PM

Mass select.

mm7607 · 09-07-2009, 05:50 PM

[QUOTE=Muzamba;2815449]
4. I know I'm going against many "purists" on this one, but maybe consider focusing a little more on the peripheral aspects of the game. That is, add a little more--or at least allow us to have more control over the customization of--the outside world in OOTP. It's totally understandable that this facet of the game doesn't merit as much attention, as it doesn't directly involve the simulating or playing of games, but for some (maybe even many?) of us, it adds to the realism in our OOTP universe even more than a perfectly accurate game engine or other areas that seem to get the lion's share of attention during development.

NO This is just plain silly and takes away from the game itself. I think less on this nonsense and more on baseball itself.

StyxNCa · 09-07-2009, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mm7607

NO This is just plain silly and takes away from the game itself. I think less on this nonsense and more on baseball itself.

Agreed.

This is a game about playing baseball and/or managing a team. If one is interested in things outside of the game they should read the sports page or police blotter. If one is concerned about realism, why not actually go to a game? What next, turning the players into "The Sims" so we can create a life for them off the field?

No game can ever produce "immersion" the way participating in REAL LIFE can.

bosunmate · 09-07-2009, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StyxNCa

Agreed.

This is a game about playing baseball and/or managing a team. If one is interested in things outside of the game they should read the sports page or police blotter. If one is concerned about realism, why not actually go to a game? What next, turning the players into "The Sims" so we can create a life for them off the field?

No game can ever produce "immersion" the way participating in REAL LIFE can.

What he said....

Afino · 09-07-2009, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StyxNCa

Agreed.

This is a game about playing baseball and/or managing a team. If one is interested in things outside of the game they should read the sports page or police blotter. If one is concerned about realism, why not actually go to a game? What next, turning the players into "The Sims" so we can create a life for them off the field?

No game can ever produce "immersion" the way participating in REAL LIFE can.

Speaking of police blotter....how about as part of the "off field injuries" file....

(stops before he is taken out and shot)

Muzamba · 09-07-2009, 07:34 PM

I can absolutely understand the mindset of those who don't want OOTP to focus on the peripherals. Obviously, many of these things have a minimal impact on game play.

The big issue for me is having more personal control over my OOTP universe. So many of these things don't have to be overly developed. They just need to be optional and customizable.

Plus, I should emphasize that I don't expect an inordinate amount of time and effort going into the peripherals. Yes, I'd like to see them get a little more attention, but I still recognize that they're not a primary component of OOTP.

In the end, we may just have a simple difference of opinion, or perhaps once I explain some of my proposals in greater detail, you might see where some of these ideas could actually be welcome additions to the game.

Spritze · 09-07-2009, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StyxNCa

No game can ever produce "immersion" the way participating in REAL LIFE can.

Where do I purchase this "Real Life"? It's not on Amazon OR E-Bay and Google doesn't find it.

PhillieFever · 09-08-2009, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritze

Where do I purchase this "Real Life"? It's not on Amazon OR E-Bay and Google doesn't find it.

Dude,you kick some serious behind,I always get a laugh out of your posts.

09-07-2009, 04:08 AM	#106
Muzamba Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 2,325	I've been resisting the temptation to start adding elements of my wishlist to this thread, as I'm trusting Markus/Steve to make good on the pledge to open up the discussion once the final patch for X is finished. (And I'm hoping this will entail more than just a new "Suggestions for the Next Version of OOTP" thread. ) However, I'd like to at least get a few quick thoughts out there for now... 1. Definitely count me as being on board the "fix what still hasn't been fixed" bandwagon. 2. Unlike many, I'd actually prefer there to be less of an emphasis on tweaking the AI. I feel like OOTP is getting close to a point of diminishing returns in this area. Obviously, it's never gonna be perfect to everyone, so perhaps it's time to set it aside for now in favor of putting more effort into other areas of the game. Not to trivialize the opinions of those who still have issues with aspects of the AI, but it seems like there's always someone complaining that the AI made some ridiculous move or another. And maybe it did, but why keep tinkering with an aspect of the game that will never be perfect when there are so many other areas that need attention? 3. Please try to incorporate as many real-world (MLB) rules into OOTP as possible. I recognize that some would be difficult or even impossible to implement and may adversely affect the playability of the game, but there are still several common and important rules that aren't included in OOTP. Personally, I'd rather there at least be some attempt to work these into the game--even if they're overly simplified--than to ignore them completely. 4. I know I'm going against many "purists" on this one, but maybe consider focusing a little more on the peripheral aspects of the game. That is, add a little more--or at least allow us to have more control over the customization of--the outside world in OOTP. It's totally understandable that this facet of the game doesn't merit as much attention, as it doesn't directly involve the simulating or playing of games, but for some (maybe even many?) of us, it adds to the realism in our OOTP universe even more than a perfectly accurate game engine or other areas that seem to get the lion's share of attention during development. 5. PLEASE--no matter what--try to make as many aspects of OOTP EDITABLE and/or CUSTOMIZABLE as possible. And please try to streamline the process of editing and customizing, maybe by creating a uniform database structure that exclusively uses csv files that can be easily exported and re-imported into the game. It's so frustrating to spend countless hours setting up our fictional universes, only to find out certain things can't be edited, while others can't be imported or don't import correctly. These are just my opinions, of course, and I have many other more detailed ideas and suggestions, but I'll save those for the appropriate time. Just please, PLEASE take the 5 points I mentioned above to heart. Regardless of what specific features and fixes ultimately make it into the next version, I will be happy if at least these general concepts are addressed. __________________ "It may be nothing. But it usually is always something and more than something." - Cardinals GM John Mozeliak

09-07-2009, 07:34 PM	#118
Muzamba Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 2,325	I can absolutely understand the mindset of those who don't want OOTP to focus on the peripherals. Obviously, many of these things have a minimal impact on game play. The big issue for me is having more personal control over my OOTP universe. So many of these things don't have to be overly developed. They just need to be optional and customizable. Plus, I should emphasize that I don't expect an inordinate amount of time and effort going into the peripherals. Yes, I'd like to see them get a little more attention, but I still recognize that they're not a primary component of OOTP. In the end, we may just have a simple difference of opinion, or perhaps once I explain some of my proposals in greater detail, you might see where some of these ideas could actually be welcome additions to the game. __________________ "It may be nothing. But it usually is always something and more than something." - Cardinals GM John Mozeliak

09-06-2009, 10:14 PM	#101
numbuh48 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 90	Mass select for OOTP 11.

09-07-2009, 12:33 AM	#102
BusterKing Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,436	What gets tiring for me to hear for every version is the announcement of the last patch. Like, ok boys, the game isn't working right but we are moving on anyways and we'll see you in the next version. Why is it like this other then it's all in fact about the money. But I keep on buying every version, since the very first release. No matter how much I hope one will get everything right... just maybe one time they will get it right. Maybe it's time to look at the old unresolved issues that go on and on and fix them once and for all instead of just giving up on fixing them and ignoring them like they don't exist. Would make a lot of us, all time supporters, very happy.

09-07-2009, 01:08 AM	#104
Carplos Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,902 Infractions: 1/0 (0)	So you complain that it's all about money... then you KEEP BUYING EVERY VERSION. Take a step back... look at the situation... DING DING DING, you're part of the problem you're whining about endlessly.

09-07-2009, 02:35 AM	#105
BusterKing Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,436	And your post is about what? Whining about my whining? Get a grip, people have a right to their own opinions.

09-07-2009, 01:50 PM	#109
spitfire All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 543	I bet Markus wouldn't mind if OOTP took over the world!!!!

09-07-2009, 04:05 PM	#113
numbuh48 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 90	Mass select.

09-07-2009, 05:50 PM	#114
mm7607 All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Originally from Fla, now in Ky Posts: 709	[QUOTE=Muzamba;2815449] 4. I know I'm going against many "purists" on this one, but maybe consider focusing a little more on the peripheral aspects of the game. That is, add a little more--or at least allow us to have more control over the customization of--the outside world in OOTP. It's totally understandable that this facet of the game doesn't merit as much attention, as it doesn't directly involve the simulating or playing of games, but for some (maybe even many?) of us, it adds to the realism in our OOTP universe even more than a perfectly accurate game engine or other areas that seem to get the lion's share of attention during development. NO This is just plain silly and takes away from the game itself. I think less on this nonsense and more on baseball itself.