One Moderator's Warning

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by thbroman

So while I applaud Steve Battist's attempt to introduce a little civility into this forum (I really do), I think there are just certain boards that are more flame-oriented than others. Don't know why this is so, but it certainly is the case.

Actually, this could be a great strategy, battists. I see that the combatants seem to gravitate to certain threads, rather than boards, that someone starts with a provocative title like:

One Moderator's Warning
ATTENTION - Strongly advise you to check this out
Open Letter to the OOTP Developers
Why the Silence?
In 6.5 but missing in OOTPB2006. You decide...
Have we seen the final patch?

It certainly helps matters if Markus, Marc, Steve Kuffrey, or you start the thread; it attracts them like moths to a flame.

My suggestion is to start an attractive thread like this every week and sticky it, so that the contestants can engage in battle therein and not take over other threads of a more mundane nature.

[dougaiton]

Aaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggghhhhhh

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by dougaiton

Aaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggghhhhhh

I am highly offended by your guttural, primal scream and I demand that you be warned.

[thbroman]

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

My suggestion is to start an attractive thread like this every week and sticky it, so that the contestants can engage in battle therein and not take over other threads of a more mundane nature.

Excellent idea! It's like giving everyone a playpen to throw food around in.

[dougaiton]

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

I am highly offended by your guttural, primal scream and I demand that you be warned.

Don't be too hasty - being offended is a warnable offense too! BAN

[CalvinHobbes]

Originally Posted by battists

If there's a valid, and implementable solution that doesn't involve moderators issuing warnings, I'd very much like to consider it!
Steve

Steve you quoted me, so I'll answer. I think what you are doing is laudable, though I don't know how you would enforce it uniformly. I also applaud your efforts at getting items of concern & new features in concise and non argumentative posts.

My post about being frustrated comes from all the negative energy on these boards. All I think about when I'm here is the old axiom 'You can please some of the people some of the time...' The game works for me, so I don't need to come here and read posts slagging/defending the game. It doesn't do anything for me. I check in every once in a while to the mods forum, and, when a bout of morbid curiosity overcomes me, I'll check in on the general discussions.

I understand that I'm a fanboy because I enjoy the game. Having written that I'll say that the game is not everything I know it can be, but I am patient and realistic enough to realize that programming is a very tough and strenous job, not to mention time consuming, so I can wait for that 'one cool feature; the game is playable as it is. *My opinion.*

I guess that doesn't really help you, but there it is.

[Twelvefield]

Battists, I hereby re-submit my proposal for the Twelvefield Honourarial Phantom Zone. If there ever was a Phantom Zone, this thread has become it.

I think you hit the nail on the head a while back: many forums (fora) encourage anonymity, including this one. When people feel that they are anonymous, they act like they are driving in highway traffic. If you've never yelled at another driver, or been yelled at, or been a witness to road rage, I guess you'd have no idea, but generally speaking, people drive like jerks. They do things in their cars that they would never do in a face-to-face environment.

So, there's at least three ways to go, as I see it:

1) Maintain the status quo. Be aware that anonymity breeds a certain freedom of expression. Perhaps post a warning or a disclaimer, and leave things at that.

2) Punish. Consistently enforce the forum rules at all times. Be the ED-209 of the Internet - constant vigilance and unrelenting adherence to the law.

3) Eliminate anonymity. No aliases, no fake names and identification. If people want to look up where other people live to sort things out, the information will all be right there.

I guess whichever choice you choose would be the one that most satisfies your need to improve things around here. It's clear that people like me won't easily police ourselves - I enjoy speaking my mind too much. If you want some kind of over-arching control over forum usage, then there has to be a consistent system. Each of 1, 2, & 3 will achieve that, but each has a cost that forum moderators must pay into the system on behalf of us users.

[treedom]

Originally Posted by Twelvefield

3) Eliminate anonymity. No aliases, no fake names and identification. If people want to look up where other people live to sort things out, the information will all be right there.

Uhhh, good luck with that one.

[Twelvefield]

Oh, I agree. That's one of the more unpleasant/unrealistic options, isn't it? Still, some forums abide by this policy -- you have to post your full real name at the end of each and every message and leave confirmable contact info with the moderators. Failiure to do so is a permanent ban.

If I recall, the forum that did this had something to do with an MSFlight Simulator 3rd party add-on (I have a large MSFS collection), and I needed technical help. Boy howdy, did I ever hate going there.

Personally, I don't think this forum is bad at all, but obviously others here are experiencing itches that never get scratched.

[Guidokid]

Wow, some very sensitive people here.....i thought my last post was a valid one, but i was issued a WARNING.....so, just so i know the rules here....i didn't use any profanity.....why was i issued a warning??

[Guidokid]

oh...one more thing.....how many warnings does it take before you're banned from the boards???

[Raidergoo]

Originally Posted by Twelvefield

3) Eliminate anonymity. No aliases, no fake names and identification. If people want to look up where other people live to sort things out, the information will all be right there.

I frequent a BBS that uses this tactic. It is for Star Fleet Battles. Some may recognize the game.

Technique seems to work OK.

[endgame]

Maybe I was raised differently. Maybe I *am* just a little different. I see a just a few issues contained in what I've been reading here and what I've also seen in the general course of, loosely put, discussion in the forums.

Firstly, whatever happened to simple respect for those in authority? When a moderator states his position or makes a judgment, why not accept it and if there is a problem, take it to PM or email. Just because we have the luxury of having an avenue to openly express our desires and opinions to the developer shouldn't mean we have the same entitlements with regard to those assigned the responsibility of maintaining board policy and exchanges. Anyone wishing to debate the "if they want respect, they have to earn my respect" concept can kindly start an OT thread, keeping in mind the only contributions you're asked for to keep the board running are zero beyond your behavior and being able to have an OT arena is, additionally, a privilege - not a right - that many forums don't accomodate because it simply doesn't relate to the game, only a portion of the game's clientle. My OT position is a subject for another time and another thread. IMHO, Steve should have posted his position and simply closed the thread. React as you may.

Secondly, the primary problem (again IMO) as of late has been threads and discussions that quickly disintegrate into the us-them banter that is so much the mirror of what drives our world today. If most of us could simply reply to the original thought rather than spontaneously reacting to the last post, I've a suspicion we'd see more threads reach logical conclusions than they do at the present time. Characteristically, it's been addressed by the courageous, or frustrated, poster who finally - after too long usually - offers an equivalent of "guys, take it outside" and sometimes that's been enough. The form of the responses has, unfortunately, been more the tone of "justify your position or justify your existence" instead of the straightforward, "this is not the place to debate this, let's take it to OT or start another thread." IMO, the playpen idea is not a bad one, but one that should be left to the discretion and the maturity - yes, I believe it does exist - in the potential combatants.

Thirdly, in relation to the above, the greatest shame of this kind of obsessive conflict is twofold: while growth should arise from conflict, it often doesn't in these circumstances because discovering the truth or seeking understanding often takes second place to preserving ego AND while threads of that nature run 150 replies deep strutting intellectual virosity and persistent obstinance, a thread simply desiring assistance with a simple in-game concept is ignored or attended to, at best, by someone posting a link.

Lastly, thank God, we exist in a rather odd vacuum here with a group of folks playing a 'team' game, desiring the benefits of both anarchy and democracy, the rights of individual baronies (my world must be tended to despite yours), and encompassing in the process all the goods and evils of the greater world as well. The screen name can't always be brought into the forums without wearing some of the real-world's wardrobe. We are who we are; the element that seems omitted too often in the "manager" in us that seeks to evaluate, utilize, and assimilate the talent available in all of us Free Agents regardless of our demands, personalities, or eccentricities. The community is diminished whenever one individual buries his desire to share his thoughts, not because they will be argued, but because - in the scheme of it all - he imagines he is not in possession of worth to anyone or any team, retiring quietly to his solo game or another game without fanfare.

There are many, many posts and posters in this thread that I would love to take the time to respond to individually: a brilliant law student claiming that additional rules not equally enforced is doomed (have you been to America?), a wonderful and colorful personality wishing to preserve the right to "slip up" a few times over the span of years without permanent recourse (where's the limit, seven warnings, ten, twelve? When can it be assumed I have learned a sense of caution, of import that I stay here? Can I buy extra credits?) Don't get me wrong, I'm not making fun, I'm not suggesting argument. Point is, I've nothing but respect and admiration for most of you, including the two fellas I took the time to use an example here; honestly think they're both great, but I 'could' have reacted to their individual posts, derailed the discussion toward a more personal end, risked getting ego involved. I elected, instead to react to the individual. In this case, saying nothing until now, and only then for an example's sake. They're both witty, intelligent, and relatively thick-skinned men who for, our purposes here, are mature enough to understand the view.

battists has accomplished this: he has us thinking, talking, discussing and, in the process, disagreeing, personalities intact and with the exception of one unneccessary and unproductive low blow, done so with as much grace as this group can generally muster. Let's keep seeing the players, the team, with our eyes on the pennant. If we dwell too much on clubhouse antics, it's a sign that our focus will hold us back from achieving greater things together.

Thanks in advance for the read, if you bothered. Hitting Submit Reply now before I convince myself what I say won't matter.

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by Guidokid

Wow, some very sensitive people here.....i thought my last post was a valid one, but i was issued a WARNING.....so, just so i know the rules here....i didn't use any profanity.....why was i issued a warning??

Um, perhaps it was because you insulted the moderator himself? Not good.

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by Guidokid

oh...one more thing.....how many warnings does it take before you're banned from the boards???

Frankly, I'm surprised you're still here.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Reserve Clause

I haven't posted here in awhile, and now that I see its becoming a slapstick version of Nazi Germany, I'm never posting here again.

It's more of a wannabe version. They don't have camps for the dissenters and the critics.

Well, so far anyway.

[Zitofan75]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

It's more of a wannabe version. They don't have camps for the dissenters and the critics.

Well, so far anyway.

Nazi Germany? Please ... the hyperbole never ends ... at least it makes for amusement.

[Zitofan75]

Originally Posted by Raidergoo

I frequent a BBS that uses this tactic. It is for Star Fleet Battles. Some may recognize the game.

Technique seems to work OK.

I very well recognize the game. And over there many more people would've been thrown off a long time ago. Catch the game designer in a bad mood or just piss him off and you're in trouble. This atmosphere is far more liberal and relaxed.

[CalvinHobbes]

Originally Posted by endgame

Maybe I was raised differently. Maybe I *am* just a little different. I see a just a few issues contained in what I've been reading here and what I've also seen in the general course of, loosely put, discussion in the forums.

Firstly, whatever happened to simple respect for those in authority? When a moderator states his position or makes a judgment, why not accept it and if there is a problem, take it to PM or email. Just because we have the luxury of having an avenue to openly express our desires and opinions to the developer shouldn't mean we have the same entitlements with regard to those assigned the responsibility of maintaining board policy and exchanges. Anyone wishing to debate the "if they want respect, they have to earn my respect" concept can kindly start an OT thread, keeping in mind the only contributions you're asked for to keep the board running are zero beyond your behavior and being able to have an OT arena is, additionally, a privilege - not a right - that many forums don't accomodate because it simply doesn't relate to the game, only a portion of the game's clientle. My OT position is a subject for another time and another thread. IMHO, Steve should have posted his position and simply closed the thread. React as you may.

Secondly, the primary problem (again IMO) as of late has been threads and discussions that quickly disintegrate into the us-them banter that is so much the mirror of what drives our world today. If most of us could simply reply to the original thought rather than spontaneously reacting to the last post, I've a suspicion we'd see more threads reach logical conclusions than they do at the present time. Characteristically, it's been addressed by the courageous, or frustrated, poster who finally - after too long usually - offers an equivalent of "guys, take it outside" and sometimes that's been enough. The form of the responses has, unfortunately, been more the tone of "justify your position or justify your existence" instead of the straightforward, "this is not the place to debate this, let's take it to OT or start another thread." IMO, the playpen idea is not a bad one, but one that should be left to the discretion and the maturity - yes, I believe it does exist - in the potential combatants.

Thirdly, in relation to the above, the greatest shame of this kind of obsessive conflict is twofold: while growth should arise from conflict, it often doesn't in these circumstances because discovering the truth or seeking understanding often takes second place to preserving ego AND while threads of that nature run 150 replies deep strutting intellectual virosity and persistent obstinance, a thread simply desiring assistance with a simple in-game concept is ignored or attended to, at best, by someone posting a link.

Lastly, thank God, we exist in a rather odd vacuum here with a group of folks playing a 'team' game, desiring the benefits of both anarchy and democracy, the rights of individual baronies (my world must be tended to despite yours), and encompassing in the process all the goods and evils of the greater world as well. The screen name can't always be brought into the forums without wearing some of the real-world's wardrobe. We are who we are; the element that seems omitted too often in the "manager" in us that seeks to evaluate, utilize, and assimilate the talent available in all of us Free Agents regardless of our demands, personalities, or eccentricities. The community is diminished whenever one individual buries his desire to share his thoughts, not because they will be argued, but because - in the scheme of it all - he imagines he is not in possession of worth to anyone or any team, retiring quietly to his solo game or another game without fanfare.

There are many, many posts and posters in this thread that I would love to take the time to respond to individually: a brilliant law student claiming that additional rules not equally enforced is doomed (have you been to America?), a wonderful and colorful personality wishing to preserve the right to "slip up" a few times over the span of years without permanent recourse (where's the limit, seven warnings, ten, twelve? When can it be assumed I have learned a sense of caution, of import that I stay here? Can I buy extra credits?) Don't get me wrong, I'm not making fun, I'm not suggesting argument. Point is, I've nothing but respect and admiration for most of you, including the two fellas I took the time to use an example here; honestly think they're both great, but I 'could' have reacted to their individual posts, derailed the discussion toward a more personal end, risked getting ego involved. I elected, instead to react to the individual. In this case, saying nothing until now, and only then for an example's sake. They're both witty, intelligent, and relatively thick-skinned men who for, our purposes here, are mature enough to understand the view.

battists has accomplished this: he has us thinking, talking, discussing and, in the process, disagreeing, personalities intact and with the exception of one unneccessary and unproductive low blow, done so with as much grace as this group can generally muster. Let's keep seeing the players, the team, with our eyes on the pennant. If we dwell too much on clubhouse antics, it's a sign that our focus will hold us back from achieving greater things together.

Thanks in advance for the read, if you bothered. Hitting Submit Reply now before I convince myself what I say won't matter.

Excellent Post! EndGame is the man, one of the best writers on this board. Thanks for your continued involvement.

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by Zitofan75

... the hyperbole never ends ... at least it makes for amusement.

I'm starting to agree with you. I'm finding myself enjoying this too much . . . I'm being pulled in . . . HELP!

And yes, nice try, endgame.