Detroit Tigers 2013 Season - Page 53

RandyTiger · 10-13-2013, 05:04 PM

ALCS Game 2 lineups:

Detroit:

CF Jackson
RF Hunter
3B Cabrera
1B Fielder
DH Martinez
SS Peralta (Yes, CJ, this is correct; I triple-checked. And David... leave my apple pie and ice-cream alone.

)
C Avila
2B Infante
LF The donkelly

Boston:

CF Ellsbury
RF Victorino
2B Pedroia
DH Ortiz
1B Carp
LF Gomes
C Saltalamacchia
SS Drew
3B Middlebrooks

CONN CHRIS · 10-13-2013, 08:19 PM

I truly do not understand this.

He is trading a massive defensive downgrade at a key position for a tiny little offensive upgrade in the ninth slot.

There are questionable moves. There are misunderstood moves. There are insignificant moves. There are dumb moves. Then there is this move.

It really does defy any explanation. Am I off base here?

RandyTiger · 10-13-2013, 08:55 PM

Couple of reasons I can see right off the bat (pun intended) for the choices:

1. Max, like Verlander, is a flyball pitcher, sporting a 0.62 g/f ratio this year.

2. Iglesias has not hit this post-season, and it would be better for Peralta to play elsewhere when there's a flyball pitcher on the mound (especially with that blasted Monster waiting to eat unwary outfielders), so it makes sense to put Peralta in at short and a proper outfielder into LF instead.

I would dispute the choice of The donkelly, but he hit well in the ALDS (2-6, 2 BB) while Dirks didn't do all that well (no hits, 1 walk, 2 runs scored). We'll see how that pays off tonight.

I dislike the choice as well, but what is one to do when HE's the manager, and we're the fans?

CONN CHRIS · 10-13-2013, 08:59 PM

I don't really care for that reason either Randy (it was proffered the last game that he did this and I admit that it is something that I hadn't considered).

Ground ball pitcher / fly ball pitcher - there still are bound to be one or two balls hit to short tonight. I have more confidence in Peralta handling the outfield than I do him handling SS. I believe that he is less likely to have a damaging play in LF even with more plays.

He is the manager.

RandyTiger · 10-13-2013, 09:10 PM

Ain't arguing, Chris - I understand the reasons and the rationale behind them, but accepting them? Nah.

I don't trust Leyland's judgment, haven't for some time, and I sincerely hope this is his last season, whether they win the big enchilada or not.

Of course, we'll probably ride the new guy once he does something we don't agree with.

Once, just once, I'd like to see one of us managing just to see how we do against them. Either it'll shut us up, or prove they don't know as much as they think they do.

RandyTiger · 10-13-2013, 09:11 PM

And cue the Fox talking heads 15 minutes before the game. Good time to load up on snacks, drink of your choice, and pillow to take a nap during the commercials.

CONN CHRIS · 10-13-2013, 11:22 PM

Where are the bats?

... right there baby!

jaysdailydose · 10-13-2013, 11:27 PM

So sick of the announcer talking about things that aren't supposed to be talked about.

I understand you have to talk about the game, but there's a way to do something, and a way NOT to do something. McCarver should damn well know this as a former catcher.

jaysdailydose · 10-13-2013, 11:30 PM

On "the donkelly" issue... I'm sure he wants Iglesias for pinch-running and to put him at 3rd instead of Ramon Santiago for Cabrera this game.

I don't necessarily like the move either, but Leyland is loyal to his guys -- and to be honest, the donkelly has always performed very well in the postseason for us, strangely enough.

themonk · 10-14-2013, 12:47 AM

A dominant performance by the Tigers until the bottom of the 8th. What a homer by Ortiz! With the bases loaded, the homer erases the 4 point lead of the Tigers. The game is now tied:5-5. The Red Sox has come back from the dead in this game!

themonk · 10-14-2013, 12:58 AM

What a game! The Red Sox win, 6 -5! Courtesy of an RBI by Saltalamacchia at the bottom of the 9th...

CONN CHRIS · 10-14-2013, 06:26 AM

Words can not describe this bullpen.

RandyTiger · 10-14-2013, 06:29 AM

Red Sox 6, Tigers 5. [Boxscore]

Summary: Bullpen implosion costs Cats.

Pitching: Scherzer was dominant as expected, holding the Sox to 1 run on 2 hits and 2 walks spread over 7 innings, punching out 13 batters along the way in a terrific performance.

With the lack of a decision, his post-season stats are 2-0, 2.25 ERA, 0.88 WHIP, with 26 punch-outs in 16 innings.

Veras took control of the mound at the beginning of the 8th inning, and after getting one out, he surrendered a double to Middlebrooks. With the left-hitting Ellsbury up next, he was pulled.

Post-season stats: 0-0, 1 Hold, 3.38 ERA, 1.13 WHIP, with 5 strikeouts in 2.2 innings.

Smyly came on in a situational match-up and failed to do the job, issuing a walk to Ellsbury. Without any further ado, he was gone.

Stats: 0-0, 2 Holds, 6.75 ERA, 3.00 WHIP, with 2 strikeouts in 1.1 innings.

Alburquerque took over, and after striking out Victorino, he surrendered a single to Pedroia, loading the bases with 2 outs, prompting Leyland to hook him. A hold was granted to him for his work.

Stats: 0-1, 2 Holds, 9.00 ERA, 2.00 WHIP, with 5 whiffs in 2 innings.

Benoit came on in the hopes that he would stem the Sox rally. Those hopes fell short as he surrendered a grand slam to Ortiz to tie the game. He struck out Napoli to end the inning. A blown save was credited to his account.

Stats: 0-0, 3 Saves (1 BS), 5.79 ERA, 1.29 WHIP, with 8 strikeouts in 4.2 innings.

Porcello took over for the 9th, and it wasn't the performance anyone was looking for as he gave up an infield single to Gomes, who went to 2nd on a throwing error by Iglesias. A wild pitch later, Gomes wound up at third, where a single by Saltalamacchia allowed him to scamper home and win the game.

With the loss, Porcello's record falls to 0-1, (infinite ERA, no outs in 2 outings this post-season), no strikeouts, etc.

Offense: The Tigers' bats had a solid performance, collecting 8 hits and 2 walks, stranding 6 with 4-9 hitting with RISP, much better than previous performances this post-season.

The list! (And please remember, these are collective post-season stats.)

Miggy, 1-4 (.259), a 347-foot solo-shot to left in the 6th (2nd HR, 4th RBI). His post-season on-base streak is now at 31 games. [Video of shot]

Fielder, 1-4 (.280), with a double (1) and run scored (3) in the 6th.

Martinez, 2-3 (.407), with 2 doubles (2nd and 6th innings, 4 for the post-season), 1 RBI (3), and 2 runs scored (7).

Peralta, 1-4 (.450), a single in the 2nd.

Avila, 2-3 (.227), a run-scoring single in the 2nd and a 423-foot, 2-run homer to right in the 6th, giving him 1 HR and 4 RBI in the post-season. He also had a walk (5) in the 8th. [Video of homer]

Infante, 1-4 (.200), a single in the 6th.

Defense: Errors, 1: Iglesias (1), throwing in the 9th.
Double plays, 1: Infante-Peralta-Fielder, 4th inning.

Next game: Tuesday, Boston @ Detroit, 4:07 Eastern.

National TV: Fox. National Radio: ESPN Radio.

Detroit local radio: 97.1 The Ticket.
Boston local radio: WEEI 93.7, WUFC 1510 (Spanish).

Probable starters: Lackey (1-0, 6.75 ERA) vs. Verlander (1-0, 0.00 ERA).

Lackey is 0-1, 3.75 in 2 starts versus Detroit this season.
Verlander is 0-0, 7.20 ERA 1 start versus Boston this season.

RandyTiger · 10-14-2013, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS

Words can not describe this bullpen.

They miss Rondon. Benoit is shaky as all-get out right now, and none of the other guys are that solid. Looks like the fears we had in Spring Training have come true.

The only thing keeping the Cats in this right now is the starting pitching. Without that, we'd be up the river without a paddle.

CONN CHRIS · 10-14-2013, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyTiger

Alburquerque took over, and after striking out Victorino, he surrendered a single to Pedroia, loading the bases with 2 outs, prompting Leyland to hook him. A hold was granted to him for his work.

I can't remember the criteria for a hold but I do remember looking it up once.

Utterly value-less statistic.

RandyTiger · 10-14-2013, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS

I can't remember the criteria for a hold but I do remember looking it up once.

Utterly value-less statistic.

You prefer I don't list them, then?

CONN CHRIS · 10-14-2013, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyTiger

You prefer I don't list them, then?

No, no, no - not a commentary about you Randy at all. Just muttering. I have never placed any significance or value on the hold stat - last night just drives that home.

RandyTiger · 10-14-2013, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS

No, no, no - not a commentary about you Randy at all. Just muttering. I have never placed any significance or value on the hold stat - last night just drives that home.

I don't find it all that much of value either, and have often debated with myself about including it. Great to know another friend feels the same way about it.

Danged if I know what would replace it. WAR is pretty much loved only by the sabermetricians, and it would be silly to adjust WAR values from game to game.

Mutter away, buddy, I do the same thing putting this stuff together, especially when I find something I dislike.

Oh, and putting Kelly in LF? He went 0-3 with a walk. *snorts* So much for the great Leyland wisdom.

CONN CHRIS · 10-14-2013, 07:59 AM

Holds - Maybe just tweak them. As it is now, Al could have put all three runners on, gotten the one out and still had the hold in this situation.

If a runner you put on scores in the half inning that a lead is surrendered you should not get a hold. I don't know. Who gives a rip at this point. At least Coke is well rested.

RandyTiger · 10-14-2013, 08:11 AM

The simplest solution is to make it contingent on the team winning in order to get one, instead of being ahead at the time the guy pitched.

And if Coke's pitching at any time, you know the team is in serious, desperate trouble. Guy belongs in AAA-ball, not the bigs.

10-13-2013, 05:04 PM	#1041
RandyTiger Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 2,510	ALCS Game 2 lineups: Detroit: CF Jackson RF Hunter 3B Cabrera 1B Fielder DH Martinez SS Peralta (Yes, CJ, this is correct; I triple-checked. And David... leave my apple pie and ice-cream alone. ) C Avila 2B Infante LF The donkelly Boston: CF Ellsbury RF Victorino 2B Pedroia DH Ortiz 1B Carp LF Gomes C Saltalamacchia SS Drew 3B Middlebrooks Last edited by RandyTiger; 10-13-2013 at 05:56 PM.

10-13-2013, 08:19 PM	#1042
CONN CHRIS Global Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 29,002	I truly do not understand this. He is trading a massive defensive downgrade at a key position for a tiny little offensive upgrade in the ninth slot. There are questionable moves. There are misunderstood moves. There are insignificant moves. There are dumb moves. Then there is this move. It really does defy any explanation. Am I off base here? __________________ Check Out My Cards!

10-13-2013, 08:59 PM	#1044
CONN CHRIS Global Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 29,002	I don't really care for that reason either Randy (it was proffered the last game that he did this and I admit that it is something that I hadn't considered). Ground ball pitcher / fly ball pitcher - there still are bound to be one or two balls hit to short tonight. I have more confidence in Peralta handling the outfield than I do him handling SS. I believe that he is less likely to have a damaging play in LF even with more plays. He is the manager. __________________ Check Out My Cards!

10-13-2013, 11:22 PM	#1047
CONN CHRIS Global Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 29,002	Where are the bats? ... right there baby! __________________ Check Out My Cards!

10-13-2013, 11:27 PM	#1048
jaysdailydose Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 2,325	So sick of the announcer talking about things that aren't supposed to be talked about. I understand you have to talk about the game, but there's a way to do something, and a way NOT to do something. McCarver should damn well know this as a former catcher. __________________ Manager - Motor City Marshals Perfect Manager/Discord Name: jaysdailydose

10-13-2013, 08:55 PM	#1043
RandyTiger Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 2,510	Couple of reasons I can see right off the bat (pun intended) for the choices: 1. Max, like Verlander, is a flyball pitcher, sporting a 0.62 g/f ratio this year. 2. Iglesias has not hit this post-season, and it would be better for Peralta to play elsewhere when there's a flyball pitcher on the mound (especially with that blasted Monster waiting to eat unwary outfielders), so it makes sense to put Peralta in at short and a proper outfielder into LF instead. I would dispute the choice of The donkelly, but he hit well in the ALDS (2-6, 2 BB) while Dirks didn't do all that well (no hits, 1 walk, 2 runs scored). We'll see how that pays off tonight. I dislike the choice as well, but what is one to do when HE's the manager, and we're the fans?

10-13-2013, 09:10 PM	#1045
RandyTiger Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 2,510	Ain't arguing, Chris - I understand the reasons and the rationale behind them, but accepting them? Nah. I don't trust Leyland's judgment, haven't for some time, and I sincerely hope this is his last season, whether they win the big enchilada or not. Of course, we'll probably ride the new guy once he does something we don't agree with. Once, just once, I'd like to see one of us managing just to see how we do against them. Either it'll shut us up, or prove they don't know as much as they think they do.

10-13-2013, 09:11 PM	#1046
RandyTiger Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 2,510	And cue the Fox talking heads 15 minutes before the game. Good time to load up on snacks, drink of your choice, and pillow to take a nap during the commercials.

10-13-2013, 11:30 PM	#1049
jaysdailydose Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 2,325	On "the donkelly" issue... I'm sure he wants Iglesias for pinch-running and to put him at 3rd instead of Ramon Santiago for Cabrera this game. I don't necessarily like the move either, but Leyland is loyal to his guys -- and to be honest, the donkelly has always performed very well in the postseason for us, strangely enough. __________________ Manager - Motor City Marshals Perfect Manager/Discord Name: jaysdailydose

10-14-2013, 12:47 AM	#1050
themonk Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 274	A dominant performance by the Tigers until the bottom of the 8th. What a homer by Ortiz! With the bases loaded, the homer erases the 4 point lead of the Tigers. The game is now tied:5-5. The Red Sox has come back from the dead in this game! Last edited by themonk; 10-14-2013 at 12:51 AM.

10-14-2013, 12:58 AM	#1051
themonk Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 274	What a game! The Red Sox win, 6 -5! Courtesy of an RBI by Saltalamacchia at the bottom of the 9th...

10-14-2013, 06:26 AM	#1052
CONN CHRIS Global Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 29,002	Words can not describe this bullpen. __________________ Check Out My Cards!

10-14-2013, 06:29 AM	#1053
RandyTiger Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 2,510	Red Sox 6, Tigers 5. [Boxscore] Summary: Bullpen implosion costs Cats. Pitching: Scherzer was dominant as expected, holding the Sox to 1 run on 2 hits and 2 walks spread over 7 innings, punching out 13 batters along the way in a terrific performance. With the lack of a decision, his post-season stats are 2-0, 2.25 ERA, 0.88 WHIP, with 26 punch-outs in 16 innings. Veras took control of the mound at the beginning of the 8th inning, and after getting one out, he surrendered a double to Middlebrooks. With the left-hitting Ellsbury up next, he was pulled. Post-season stats: 0-0, 1 Hold, 3.38 ERA, 1.13 WHIP, with 5 strikeouts in 2.2 innings. Smyly came on in a situational match-up and failed to do the job, issuing a walk to Ellsbury. Without any further ado, he was gone. Stats: 0-0, 2 Holds, 6.75 ERA, 3.00 WHIP, with 2 strikeouts in 1.1 innings. Alburquerque took over, and after striking out Victorino, he surrendered a single to Pedroia, loading the bases with 2 outs, prompting Leyland to hook him. A hold was granted to him for his work. Stats: 0-1, 2 Holds, 9.00 ERA, 2.00 WHIP, with 5 whiffs in 2 innings. Benoit came on in the hopes that he would stem the Sox rally. Those hopes fell short as he surrendered a grand slam to Ortiz to tie the game. He struck out Napoli to end the inning. A blown save was credited to his account. Stats: 0-0, 3 Saves (1 BS), 5.79 ERA, 1.29 WHIP, with 8 strikeouts in 4.2 innings. Porcello took over for the 9th, and it wasn't the performance anyone was looking for as he gave up an infield single to Gomes, who went to 2nd on a throwing error by Iglesias. A wild pitch later, Gomes wound up at third, where a single by Saltalamacchia allowed him to scamper home and win the game. With the loss, Porcello's record falls to 0-1, (infinite ERA, no outs in 2 outings this post-season), no strikeouts, etc. Offense: The Tigers' bats had a solid performance, collecting 8 hits and 2 walks, stranding 6 with 4-9 hitting with RISP, much better than previous performances this post-season. The list! (And please remember, these are collective post-season stats.) Miggy, 1-4 (.259), a 347-foot solo-shot to left in the 6th (2nd HR, 4th RBI). His post-season on-base streak is now at 31 games. [Video of shot] Fielder, 1-4 (.280), with a double (1) and run scored (3) in the 6th. Martinez, 2-3 (.407), with 2 doubles (2nd and 6th innings, 4 for the post-season), 1 RBI (3), and 2 runs scored (7). Peralta, 1-4 (.450), a single in the 2nd. Avila, 2-3 (.227), a run-scoring single in the 2nd and a 423-foot, 2-run homer to right in the 6th, giving him 1 HR and 4 RBI in the post-season. He also had a walk (5) in the 8th. [Video of homer] Infante, 1-4 (.200), a single in the 6th. Defense: Errors, 1: Iglesias (1), throwing in the 9th. Double plays, 1: Infante-Peralta-Fielder, 4th inning. Next game: Tuesday, Boston @ Detroit, 4:07 Eastern. National TV: Fox. National Radio: ESPN Radio. Detroit local radio: 97.1 The Ticket. Boston local radio: WEEI 93.7, WUFC 1510 (Spanish). Probable starters: Lackey (1-0, 6.75 ERA) vs. Verlander (1-0, 0.00 ERA). Lackey is 0-1, 3.75 in 2 starts versus Detroit this season. Verlander is 0-0, 7.20 ERA 1 start versus Boston this season.

10-14-2013, 07:59 AM	#1059
CONN CHRIS Global Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 29,002	Holds - Maybe just tweak them. As it is now, Al could have put all three runners on, gotten the one out and still had the hold in this situation. If a runner you put on scores in the half inning that a lead is surrendered you should not get a hold. I don't know. Who gives a rip at this point. At least Coke is well rested. __________________ Check Out My Cards!

10-14-2013, 08:11 AM	#1060
RandyTiger Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 2,510	The simplest solution is to make it contingent on the team winning in order to get one, instead of being ahead at the time the guy pitched. And if Coke's pitching at any time, you know the team is in serious, desperate trouble. Guy belongs in AAA-ball, not the bigs.