WC 2006 Official Thread - Page 517

potatoman · 06-25-2006, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sdpm100

Over/Under on Red Cards - 1.5

Over.

theasfl · 06-25-2006, 06:33 PM

for those who think Netherlands-Portugal was bad...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziCPQ...arch=Battiston

theasfl · 06-25-2006, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sdpm100

1962 yeah.
Here's the Wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Santiago

The Donovan article is here: http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns...b1pos3&cc=5739

It may not be interesting to you, but as an outsider it is pretty revealing IMO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0rs_...h=Chile%201962

doesn't do it much justice

Hageneezz · 06-25-2006, 06:49 PM

Long_Long_Name · 06-25-2006, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theasfl

for those who think Netherlands-Portugal was bad...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziCPQ...arch=Battiston

Well, it was bad...

redmarkYankees · 06-25-2006, 07:10 PM

Just watched the highlights - and the slowmo's of the bookings - because I missed the second half. Every yellow card was justifiable; a couple were borderline-harsh, but all justifiable. Nothing to do with FIFA edicts - that was a bad tempered, niggly, awful game. Bad tackle? Yellow card. Cynical trip? Yellow card. Deliberate handball? Yellow card. Elbow? Yellow - if not red - card. Headbutt? Red - Figo was lucky. Picking the ball up and not handing it back - timewasting. Yellow card.

Those are the rules. The players know them.

Yeah, horrible game. Completely the fault of dirty, niggly, cheating, play-acting players. So Portugal have 2 players suspended for the next game - tough. Figo is lucky not to be banned for 3 games for the headbutt.

bababui · 06-25-2006, 08:40 PM

Watching the replay on Galavision Boulahoura or whatever seemed to delibratly try to take out C Ronaldo. This seemed to set the stage for all that followed. Suspensions should be dealt with on a case by case basis as in other sports. A one size fits all justice system gives justice to few.

bababui · 06-25-2006, 09:14 PM

Another obsevation:

An activist referee invites play acting. Players were diving to and fro and begging for cards. RMY..would you consider an appeal system that would be empowered to either reduce or add to suspensions where warrented? Surely this isnt the best possible system.

redmarkYankees · 06-25-2006, 09:23 PM

The system isn't broken. Both Holland and Portugal have a reputation for play acting; none of that was a result of the referee. Honestly; there wasn't a single booking in that game I would be too upset at. On the contrary, there were incidents missed by the referee that could have produced more cards, while 2 or 3 of those yellows might have been straight reds. There already is a mechanism for suspensions to be rescinded, if the referee or FIFA observers think a booking/sending off was wrong. There won't be any rescinded from that match - they were all decent decisions. The only change from FIFA could be to ban Figo for the rest of the tournament for the headbutt - not a very powerful one, but totally outside acceptable behaviour: violent conduct, should have been a red and 3 game suspension.

What do football fans want to see from a match? Exciting, attacking, fair football - like the Argentina vs Mexico match, for instance. The sort of behaviour in this game prevents that. I figure you won't have seen matches from the 70s and 80s, where it was commonplace for the side leading to resort to timewasting, cynical fouls and playacting. That ruins the game. Referees are stricter now, and - on the whole - it's a good thing.

There was nothing wrong with the refereeing in that game. There was everything wrong with the attitude of the teams.

bababui · 06-25-2006, 09:37 PM

I am a bit discombobulated because on the one hand I would love Figo to be suspended muliple games for his nonsense but...is it fair to give England (or whatever team it might be) basically a free pass to the next round. How bout long post WC suspensions? That way players could be punished without destroying the integrity of tourneys?

bababui · 06-25-2006, 09:38 PM

FWIW..if Phillipe Cocu had buried his shot all this would be moot.

Long_Long_Name · 06-25-2006, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bababui

FWIW..if Phillipe Cocu had buried his shot all this would be moot.

But he didn't.

bababui · 06-25-2006, 10:07 PM

Could someone please explain Decos 2nd yellow???

bababui · 06-25-2006, 10:28 PM

No one deserved to win the match. They should be forced to replay it today. A permanent black mark on footie,

Long_Long_Name · 06-25-2006, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bababui

No one deserved to win the match. They should be forced to replay it today. A permanent black mark on footie,

Portugal did. They scored, and the Netherlands did not. It's not the end of the world, nobody died.

bababui · 06-25-2006, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Long_Long_Name

Portugal did. They scored, and the Netherlands did not. It's not the end of the world, nobody died.

We dont know that yet. Tell that to Escobar from the Colombian squad from 1994.

theasfl · 06-26-2006, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bababui

Could someone please explain Decos 2nd yellow???

he picked up the ball and didnt give it back...time wasting.

theasfl · 06-26-2006, 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bababui

FWIW..if Phillipe Cocu had buried his shot all this would be moot.

thats true of ~10 of our shots

theasfl · 06-26-2006, 02:40 AM

someone remind me I have a trivia questions for tomorrows games

Sdpm100 · 06-26-2006, 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bababui

This match goes in the same catagory as

Germany v France 1982

Brazil v France 1986

Italy vs. Chile 1962,

Italy vs. USA 2006.

as matches that will go down in history..but for thwe wrong reasons

bababui, I know the other three (btw it was West Germany vs. France, but that's being picky I guess), but why was Brazil/France 1986 so infamous?

Also, I know this wasn't disciplinary wise, but there is another game from 1982 - West Germany/Austria in the group stage. The Germans had lost to Algeria in their opener, but because the final two games weren't played at the same time (as it is now), both teams knew before kick-off a 1-0 win for West Germany would send both of them into the next round.
West Germany scored early, and then both teams showed little interest in scoring, knowing that both would go through at the expense of Algeria, and spent the rest of the game mostly passing it between themselves and back to the keeper (no backpass rule in those days).
It was the impotus for the final group games being played at the same time.

06-25-2006, 06:33 PM	#10322
theasfl Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Coral Springs, FL or Orlando, FL (UCF) Posts: 7,988	for those who think Netherlands-Portugal was bad... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziCPQ...arch=Battiston __________________ All-Sports Fantasy League The ASFL 22 different games, 9 sports. Please check out the website (www.theasfl.com/asfl2/). The league is free- if you're interested please fill out the signup form and/or email the commissioner. Miami Talons (ABL): 2004, 2005 & 2008 Champs

06-25-2006, 07:10 PM	#10326
redmarkYankees All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,283	Just watched the highlights - and the slowmo's of the bookings - because I missed the second half. Every yellow card was justifiable; a couple were borderline-harsh, but all justifiable. Nothing to do with FIFA edicts - that was a bad tempered, niggly, awful game. Bad tackle? Yellow card. Cynical trip? Yellow card. Deliberate handball? Yellow card. Elbow? Yellow - if not red - card. Headbutt? Red - Figo was lucky. Picking the ball up and not handing it back - timewasting. Yellow card. Those are the rules. The players know them. Yeah, horrible game. Completely the fault of dirty, niggly, cheating, play-acting players. So Portugal have 2 players suspended for the next game - tough. Figo is lucky not to be banned for 3 games for the headbutt. __________________ In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act. George Orwell

06-25-2006, 09:23 PM	#10329
redmarkYankees All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,283	The system isn't broken. Both Holland and Portugal have a reputation for play acting; none of that was a result of the referee. Honestly; there wasn't a single booking in that game I would be too upset at. On the contrary, there were incidents missed by the referee that could have produced more cards, while 2 or 3 of those yellows might have been straight reds. There already is a mechanism for suspensions to be rescinded, if the referee or FIFA observers think a booking/sending off was wrong. There won't be any rescinded from that match - they were all decent decisions. The only change from FIFA could be to ban Figo for the rest of the tournament for the headbutt - not a very powerful one, but totally outside acceptable behaviour: violent conduct, should have been a red and 3 game suspension. What do football fans want to see from a match? Exciting, attacking, fair football - like the Argentina vs Mexico match, for instance. The sort of behaviour in this game prevents that. I figure you won't have seen matches from the 70s and 80s, where it was commonplace for the side leading to resort to timewasting, cynical fouls and playacting. That ruins the game. Referees are stricter now, and - on the whole - it's a good thing. There was nothing wrong with the refereeing in that game. There was everything wrong with the attitude of the teams. __________________ In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act. George Orwell

06-26-2006, 02:40 AM	#10339
theasfl Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Coral Springs, FL or Orlando, FL (UCF) Posts: 7,988	someone remind me I have a trivia questions for tomorrows games __________________ All-Sports Fantasy League The ASFL 22 different games, 9 sports. Please check out the website (www.theasfl.com/asfl2/). The league is free- if you're interested please fill out the signup form and/or email the commissioner. Miami Talons (ABL): 2004, 2005 & 2008 Champs

06-25-2006, 06:49 PM	#10324
Hageneezz All Star Reserve Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: The Hague,Netherlands Posts: 882

06-25-2006, 08:40 PM	#10327
bababui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 14,147 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Watching the replay on Galavision Boulahoura or whatever seemed to delibratly try to take out C Ronaldo. This seemed to set the stage for all that followed. Suspensions should be dealt with on a case by case basis as in other sports. A one size fits all justice system gives justice to few.

06-25-2006, 09:14 PM	#10328
bababui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 14,147 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Another obsevation: An activist referee invites play acting. Players were diving to and fro and begging for cards. RMY..would you consider an appeal system that would be empowered to either reduce or add to suspensions where warrented? Surely this isnt the best possible system.

06-25-2006, 09:37 PM	#10330
bababui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 14,147 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	I am a bit discombobulated because on the one hand I would love Figo to be suspended muliple games for his nonsense but...is it fair to give England (or whatever team it might be) basically a free pass to the next round. How bout long post WC suspensions? That way players could be punished without destroying the integrity of tourneys?

06-25-2006, 09:38 PM	#10331
bababui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 14,147 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	FWIW..if Phillipe Cocu had buried his shot all this would be moot.

06-25-2006, 10:07 PM	#10333
bababui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 14,147 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Could someone please explain Decos 2nd yellow???

06-25-2006, 10:28 PM	#10334
bababui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 14,147 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	No one deserved to win the match. They should be forced to replay it today. A permanent black mark on footie,