Girl playing baseball? - Page 5

Slant · 10-22-2003, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by paulywerner
That has what to do exactly with the fact the Yankees are bashed for being great? I mean really... If the Yankees are soooooo EVIL, how could they win? I mean, wouldnt this be like, Darth Vadar and the Empire defeating the Rebel Forces.

Maybe since you bashed Nuke for his avatar, maybe Boston is actually like that whiney Birtish girl and whined and moaned when she didnt get the goose she wanted, so she through a temper tantrum, and got flushed down the bad egg dispenser... Now thats a good comparison for Theo, and Boston, since Theo cried like a bizzatch when the Yankees out did them to sign Contreras... But Contreras never wanted to play in Boston, he wanted to play for a winner, so he chose the Yankees... Dont hate the hater.

By the way, theres nothing wrong with my dancing plumber from Brooklyn...

OK back up a second. I was trying to remove some hostility by making a joke. I wasn't bashing Nuke's avatar, I was bashing yours. And not only in a joking way, no harm intended, lets just say its "unique". And I know it has nothing to do with the Yankees in any way, it was just a side comment.

paulywerner · 10-22-2003, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Slant
OK back up a second. I was trying to remove some hostility by making a joke. I wasn't bashing Nuke's avatar, I was bashing yours. And not only in a joking way, no harm intended, lets just say its "unique". And I know it has nothing to do with the Yankees in any way, it was just a side comment.

Gotcha... hehe...

Slant · 10-23-2003, 12:00 AM

...and to get the argument going again... two quotes:

"Rooting for the Yankees is like rooting for the house in blackjack."
-- Adam Morrow, Los Angeles

"I am a lifelong Yankee fan due to a long familial history in New York. Now I am back in New England living with a man who, if he had to choose between his parents and the Red Sox, would have a hard time doing the right thing. A man who believes that you and Hench are his friends. A man whose veins pump with a rich red blood not because of science but because of the Red Sox. Because I love baseball and because I love him, I have watched the Red Sox all season long. And so here it is -- the morning after the series that offered me an ulcer the size of Zimmer's bowling ball-sized head. My team won.

"Am I overjoyed? Am I ecstatic? Not by a long shot. I am going to tell you something that I haven't told anyone: I was rooting for the Sox.

"How could you not? When it was all over and Boone crossed the plate, I saw the tears in the eyes of the man who was sitting on the couch next to me and I wished they had been mine. More than anyone (except Cubs fans), Sox fans deserved that victory. The Yankees might have a $160 million team, but like the Mastercard commercials, what the Sox have is priceless. They have heart.

"Am I becoming a Sox fan? A turncoat? A bandwagon fan? Possibly. Can I think about it first? Only true love can break your heart, and I know that most people wearing Sox jerseys these days are busy taping their hearts back together. It's something to see, that's all I can say. It's incredible to know, and quite frankly, the passion makes a tad bit jealous. You might not have as many World Series rings as those who wear pinstripes, but you might just have something there in Beantown that the Yankees will never have. It can't be bought with George's stacks of green, and it cant be won over with a Frank Sinatra song ... it's just in you. And I am beginning to wish it were in me, too."
-- Steph G., Manchester, N.H.

paulywerner · 10-23-2003, 12:36 AM

Quote:

I am a lifelong Yankee fan due to a long familial history in New York. Now I am back in New England living with a man who, if he had to choose between his parents and the Red Sox, would have a hard time doing the right thing.

A life long Yankee fan dont just change because their husband likes the Red Sox. If you can stop rooting for the Yankees, and start rooting for the Sox, Yankee fans wouldn't need you anyway.

Thats not a very good argument for anything trying to prove the Yankees ruined baseball. The Yankees might be the highest paid, but they have something that all teams have, except other teams dont know how to use it. its called teamwork. The Sox may be a closer group now, but I remember just a couple of seasons ago, it was a 25 man, 25 cab routine. and 6 of the guys on those teams are still there. I credit Grady Little, he may look like a high school principle, and talk like Forrest Gump, but what he did with that clubhouse is a tremendous accomplishment.

Do I think the Sox are better than the Yankees when compared on paper side by side, YES, I DO, but the Sox dont have the heart of a champion.. They can Cowboy Up all the way to ALCS, but they dont have what it takes to beat what the Yankees have, and thats experience, knowledge, and most of all, mistique

Slant · 10-23-2003, 12:44 AM

I wasn't trying to prove anything about how the Yanks ruined anything, I was trying to show the emotion in the Red Sox that the Yankees lack.

Most Red Sox fans can easily understand who Yankee fans root for the Red Sox: because they win! It's as simply as that.

But try as they will, most Yankee fans can not even understand why anyone in their right mind would root for a team with less than 26 championships.

And responding to your comment, I don't think the writer of the letter changed because her husband likes the Red Sox. If you read maybe more than the first paragraph maybe you would understand the point.

Crapshoot · 10-23-2003, 12:46 AM

Pauly can't be as stupid as he sounds (redundant OPS/clutch hitting/ little things/ knowing how to win)- definite troll bait, or Joe Morgan thinkalike- don't know what is worse,... Either way- he's not worth the time.

Draven, the Red Sox spend more than any team in baseball not named the Yanks- for them to bitch about finances and general is ridiculous. The franchise is one of the most valuable in baseball, with a fan base that is extremely price inelastic. Every other team would kill for that market and that money. Boston can sign guys like Pedro and Manny beacuse they have the funds- how many teams can afford to spend 17.5 mil to pick up an option on a wonderful pitcher who's not likely to get through a season without injury ? Also the Yankee payroll was approx 140 mil, compared to 104 for the Sox- where's the 73 percent ? Basically, to argue that the Sox can't compete reasonably given the second highest payroll seems to be somewhat ridiculous from my perspective. Of course the Yanks have more money- but Boston is second, and there are 28 other teams with less- you're not liable to get much sympathy for that position.

paulywerner · 10-23-2003, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Pauly can't be as stupid as he sounds (redundant OPS/clutch hitting/ little things/ knowing how to win)- definite troll bait, or Joe Morgan thinkalike- don't know what is worse,... Either way- he's not worth the time.

You arent anyone to criticize me, or compare me to anything.. If you dont like what I have to say, then take your comments else where, and ignore them, which is what I will do to you.

But for you to get into comments that I make without knowing me, and making a brush around attempt to call me stupid, dont speak much for yourself... GENIUS !!!!

Skipaway · 10-23-2003, 12:57 AM

I think everyone can complain about the finances. If I were the Yankees, I would say the current system discriminates against the riches. Why would I have to pay the Twins for them to try to beat me?

Skipaway · 10-23-2003, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by paulywerner
You arent anyone to criticize me, or compare me to anything.. If you dont like what I have to say, then take your comments else where, and ignore them, which is what I will do to you.

But for you to get into comments that I make without knowing me, and making a brush around attempt to call me stupid, dont speak much for yourself... GENIUS !!!!

I think you got his ideas wrong. He was trying hard not to call you stupid. However, if you insist......

JML · 10-23-2003, 12:59 AM

Someimtes guys have names like Carrol or Fran, but no, there are no females playing in OOTP.

I wouldn't say it is sexist, it's just mirroring real life.

You can always add female names to the file if you'd like to see women in OOTP.

Slant · 10-23-2003, 01:02 AM

and no one's trying to say that the Red Sox can't compete, when they obviously can. The dislike is related to the way that you can automatically make assumptions about someone's character if they are a Yankee fan (I guess living your whole life is an adequate excuse, but the point stands)

paulywerner · 10-23-2003, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipaway
I think everyone can complain about the finances. If I were the Yankees, I would say the current system discriminates against the riches. Why would I have to pay the Twins for them to try to beat me?

Thats the biggest point about all this, baseball puts in rules to stop the Yankees from improving, both talent wise, and financially... Those luxury taxes are directed towards the Yankees, not enyone else. Just because Steinbrenner spends his money wisely, people want to criticize the Yankees for being overated, and over paid... The sad part is, when watching this World Series, if the Yankees were all clicking at once, it would be scary what they do to opponents.. They won the AL East this year having had 4 of their best players on the DL at any given time, plus Giambi playing through eye infections, and taking crap for not hitting, and they still beat the Sox for the division. People when never give credit where its due.

I can sympathize with all of you who think the Yankees ruin the game because they win all the time. I felt the same way when the Bulls were winning every year in basketball, i even quit watching basketball because of it, and never went back to watching it, because it bored me... I just say, you will all get your chancd to feel relief when the Yankees start to rebuild again. And we have teams like the Twins, or Blue Jays winning like it was 10-15 years ago, and people think this is the most un-watched World Series in history, wait until those teams are there.. Hell, even Barry Bonds and the Giants facing the Angels last year had some of the lowest ratings ever for a World Series.. There were talk shows with more TV shares.

paulywerner · 10-23-2003, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipaway
I think you got his ideas wrong. He was trying hard not to call you stupid. However, if you insist......

I understood, but if that wasnt a trolling post, nothing is

Slant · 10-23-2003, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by paulywerner
... Just because Steinbrenner spends his money wisely, people want to criticize the Yankees for being overated, and over paid...

I don't have 2003 data, but in 2002, if you rank the 30 MLB teams in payroll divided by wins, or money spent per win, the Yankees rank 29th. And no, 30th is not the Red Sox, but the Rangers.

And to provide some numbers: in 2002 the Yankees spent $1,295,434.53 for each regular season win, as opposed to, for example, the Oakland A's, who spent only $407,210.34 for each win.

So tell me again how Steinbrenner spends his money wisely?

By my calculations, if the Yankees could get the same efficiency as Oakland (that is, if each win only cost them $400k) and they had the same $133 mil payroll they had in 2002, they would have enough cash to win a whopping 328 games.

Impossible, you say? How about some less extreme examples. By following the Red Sox's efficiency model, the Yanks would have won 10 more games. By following the Dodger's efficiency, they would have won 18 more games. By following the average MLB efficiency of $846K per win, the Yankees could have won 158 games in 2002.

It's the same kind of thing that makes people around the world want to kill innocent Americans.

Skipaway · 10-23-2003, 02:40 AM

Business is not always about profit margins. For poor teams, sure they'd need to spend smarter. In the Yankees case, being number one is more important than profit margins. Considering the resources they got, it's not that bad an idea to overkill.

holyroller · 10-23-2003, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Slant

It's the same kind of thing that makes people around the world want to kill innocent Americans.

What?

Crapshoot · 10-23-2003, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skipaway
Business is not always about profit margins. For poor teams, sure they'd need to spend smarter. In the Yankees case, being number one is more important than profit margins. Considering the resources they got, it's not that bad an idea to overkill.

exactly. Steve Karsay is worth 3 mil to your average team- to the Yankees, where the marginal cost of allocating cash is lower, he's worth a lot more- so its in their interest to pay him more and get him, as opposed to missing out. Same thing with Bernie and Posada, and to some extent Jeter- the latter is overpaid on any other team (and perhaps even on the Yankees), but given the market value of cash is lower in NY (somewhat higher in Boston, a lot higher in SF, and crazy high in Oakland), he's worth it.

Crapshoot · 10-23-2003, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by paulywerner
You arent anyone to criticize me, or compare me to anything.. If you dont like what I have to say, then take your comments else where, and ignore them, which is what I will do to you.

But for you to get into comments that I make without knowing me, and making a brush around attempt to call me stupid, dont speak much for yourself... GENIUS !!!!

Pauly, you have argued for clutch hitting, the little things, argued that RBI is a good measure of skill while OPS isnt, argued that Yankee players would take a lot less to play in NY, the "class" of the team, and so forth- trust me, I have a clear opinion of you. Whether or not your statements represent you is your ax to grind, not mine- I can only form an opinion based on what I see.
And while I have argued in this thread that the Yanks financial advantage alone isnt the only reason for their success, it would be fairly idiotic to ignore that TV revenue, estimated at more that $100 million a year- that's the benefit of playing in NY- which trust me, whatever their fans, would not happen elsewhere.

Crapshoot · 10-23-2003, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Slant
I don't have 2003 data, but in 2002, if you rank the 30 MLB teams in payroll divided by wins, or money spent per win, the Yankees rank 29th. And no, 30th is not the Red Sox, but the Rangers.

And to provide some numbers: in 2002 the Yankees spent $1,295,434.53 for each regular season win, as opposed to, for example, the Oakland A's, who spent only $407,210.34 for each win.

So tell me again how Steinbrenner spends his money wisely?

By my calculations, if the Yankees could get the same efficiency as Oakland (that is, if each win only cost them $400k) and they had the same $133 mil payroll they had in 2002, they would have enough cash to win a whopping 328 games.

Impossible, you say? How about some less extreme examples. By following the Red Sox's efficiency model, the Yanks would have won 10 more games. By following the Dodger's efficiency, they would have won 18 more games. By following the average MLB efficiency of $846K per win, the Yankees could have won 158 games in 2002.

See my earlier post for why I think this logic is somewhat flawed. Sufice to say, given their opportunity costs as compared to Oakland, they should pay 3 million to someone Oakland values at 1.2....

Quote:

It's the same kind of thing that makes people around the world want to kill innocent Americans.

What the hell was with this ?

holyroller · 10-23-2003, 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aadik
What the hell was with this ?

So it wasn't just me.

10-23-2003, 12:00 AM	#83
Slant Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Red Sox Nation Posts: 257	...and to get the argument going again... two quotes: "Rooting for the Yankees is like rooting for the house in blackjack." -- Adam Morrow, Los Angeles "I am a lifelong Yankee fan due to a long familial history in New York. Now I am back in New England living with a man who, if he had to choose between his parents and the Red Sox, would have a hard time doing the right thing. A man who believes that you and Hench are his friends. A man whose veins pump with a rich red blood not because of science but because of the Red Sox. Because I love baseball and because I love him, I have watched the Red Sox all season long. And so here it is -- the morning after the series that offered me an ulcer the size of Zimmer's bowling ball-sized head. My team won. "Am I overjoyed? Am I ecstatic? Not by a long shot. I am going to tell you something that I haven't told anyone: I was rooting for the Sox. "How could you not? When it was all over and Boone crossed the plate, I saw the tears in the eyes of the man who was sitting on the couch next to me and I wished they had been mine. More than anyone (except Cubs fans), Sox fans deserved that victory. The Yankees might have a $160 million team, but like the Mastercard commercials, what the Sox have is priceless. They have heart. "Am I becoming a Sox fan? A turncoat? A bandwagon fan? Possibly. Can I think about it first? Only true love can break your heart, and I know that most people wearing Sox jerseys these days are busy taping their hearts back together. It's something to see, that's all I can say. It's incredible to know, and quite frankly, the passion makes a tad bit jealous. You might not have as many World Series rings as those who wear pinstripes, but you might just have something there in Beantown that the Yankees will never have. It can't be bought with George's stacks of green, and it cant be won over with a Frank Sinatra song ... it's just in you. And I am beginning to wish it were in me, too." -- Steph G., Manchester, N.H. __________________ Boiler Room Project

10-23-2003, 12:44 AM	#85
Slant Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Red Sox Nation Posts: 257	I wasn't trying to prove anything about how the Yanks ruined anything, I was trying to show the emotion in the Red Sox that the Yankees lack. Most Red Sox fans can easily understand who Yankee fans root for the Red Sox: because they win! It's as simply as that. But try as they will, most Yankee fans can not even understand why anyone in their right mind would root for a team with less than 26 championships. And responding to your comment, I don't think the writer of the letter changed because her husband likes the Red Sox. If you read maybe more than the first paragraph maybe you would understand the point. __________________ Boiler Room Project

10-23-2003, 12:46 AM	#86
Crapshoot Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: watching: DArwin's missing link in action Posts: 3,112	Pauly can't be as stupid as he sounds (redundant OPS/clutch hitting/ little things/ knowing how to win)- definite troll bait, or Joe Morgan thinkalike- don't know what is worse,... Either way- he's not worth the time. Draven, the Red Sox spend more than any team in baseball not named the Yanks- for them to bitch about finances and general is ridiculous. The franchise is one of the most valuable in baseball, with a fan base that is extremely price inelastic. Every other team would kill for that market and that money. Boston can sign guys like Pedro and Manny beacuse they have the funds- how many teams can afford to spend 17.5 mil to pick up an option on a wonderful pitcher who's not likely to get through a season without injury ? Also the Yankee payroll was approx 140 mil, compared to 104 for the Sox- where's the 73 percent ? Basically, to argue that the Sox can't compete reasonably given the second highest payroll seems to be somewhat ridiculous from my perspective. Of course the Yanks have more money- but Boston is second, and there are 28 other teams with less- you're not liable to get much sympathy for that position. __________________ Senior Senor Member of the OOTP Boards Pittsburgh Playmates- OTBL

10-23-2003, 12:57 AM	#88
Skipaway Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Where you live Posts: 11,017	I think everyone can complain about the finances. If I were the Yankees, I would say the current system discriminates against the riches. Why would I have to pay the Twins for them to try to beat me? __________________ Jonathan Haidt: Moral reasoning is really just a servant masquerading as a high priest.

10-23-2003, 01:02 AM	#91
Slant Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Red Sox Nation Posts: 257	and no one's trying to say that the Red Sox can't compete, when they obviously can. The dislike is related to the way that you can automatically make assumptions about someone's character if they are a Yankee fan (I guess living your whole life is an adequate excuse, but the point stands) __________________ Boiler Room Project

10-23-2003, 12:59 AM	#90
JML Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The act or process of locating. Posts: 2,154	Someimtes guys have names like Carrol or Fran, but no, there are no females playing in OOTP. I wouldn't say it is sexist, it's just mirroring real life. You can always add female names to the file if you'd like to see women in OOTP.

10-23-2003, 02:40 AM	#95
Skipaway Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Where you live Posts: 11,017	Business is not always about profit margins. For poor teams, sure they'd need to spend smarter. In the Yankees case, being number one is more important than profit margins. Considering the resources they got, it's not that bad an idea to overkill. __________________ Jonathan Haidt: Moral reasoning is really just a servant masquerading as a high priest.